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New Prototype Dac


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Recently I rang Clay to get a new DAC.

My old Music Fidelity M1 DAC failed.

He told me we was working on a much upgraded Klein DAC that because it was so improved it could be marketed as a new model, but he had to build a prototype first to see if it was everything he was expecting,

He said I could have it....

 

The Prototype is built into a Klein 111 case, but it truly is a lovely thing!

In comparison, in my memory, the M1 felt harsh and not very clear...

Lovely separation, not harsh in the top end, really happy with it.

i would imagine Clay’s top of the line unit is still much better, and in the 7 day trail, I was tempted to swap for the Top line model, but this one is very nice for the money.

Worth looking out for the new model which I believe has more features than my DAC. 

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Hi everyone.   Sorry for the delay but we ended up doing some last minute revisions on the board & the new case CNC work needed some fine tuning to make sure everything was spot bef

For the record the AK4495 that I’m using is actually more expensive than the AK4493 which would normally  be used in that series of DAC. Sure it is a older older model (2015) but it was thei

Wow, that's an extremely narrow-minded and misguided comment!   Don't you own an Denafrips Ares II - which uses discrete R2R boards? By many accounts (not mine BTW) this is outdated technolo



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On 13/02/2020 at 3:16 PM, Gieseler Audio said:

I am working on some new stuff & Mr Speedy was fortunate that I had a prototype that suited the current case.

The custom cases are a slow process though so still a way off.

 

 

Any updates on this, Clay?

 

Now working from home (like many of us) and looking to set up second system ... 

 

Hope you are well and safe!

 

J :)

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Good question.

I do really like the AK4495 (current Klein III chip) & it was the premium chip when released in 2015.

Digikey have over 3000 currently in stock so it is obviously still a pretty popular DAC chip choice.

However I am also considering the AK4493.

 

 

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Agreed!

I have a sample case hopefully arriving next week so will post some pics then.

 

This is the new case I will probably be using - it will be a wider & lower look tho

260mm w 50mm h & 180mm d

 

8FD47015-862E-44A0-B7CC-C2C1FB514C33.thumb.jpeg.f44da5e5ec7baeb39260ca399c609574.jpeg

 

Edited by Gieseler Audio
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9 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

RE demo unit 

I will look at that after the official release.

Clay that would be great if possible. 

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On 06/05/2020 at 11:28 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

RE demo unit 

I will look at that after the official release.

Next question is, when is the official release?!

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Very soon - sample cases have now shipped FedEx from japan.

When they arrive I just need to fine tune hole & text locations etc  & then put thru a production order.

Should all happen within two weeks hopefully.

It will certainly be nice to have someone else doing the machining side of things for a change.

☺️

Edited by Gieseler Audio
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Would be interested in comparing it with my Ayon Sigma DAC.

 

Also I'd like to know what is the possibility to have Tidal/Spotify streaming directly from Gieseler DAC? Would that be part of the future plan?

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For streaming I would need to integrate a server/SBC  into the DAC.

Great idea but but not something I'm planing at the moment.

I do actually have a prototype DAC with inbuilt Raspberry Pi running Picore player - sounds good too.

There are still a few issues tho like occasional pops etc so not perfect.

I will certainly revisit it down the track but not for a while - way to busy with building stuff & no time for software support which a streamer would require.

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Looking forward to seeing more Gieseler products

 

Many of us listen to streaming source such as Tidal, would be great to have MQA render build-in.

 

Cheers

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32 minutes ago, Eugene.cho said:

Looking forward to seeing more Gieseler products

 

Many of us listen to streaming source such as Tidal, would be great to have MQA render build-in.

Clay has previously stated that MQA licensing is  far too expensive for a small outfit like his. 

 

 

I personally found no difference with MQA using 2L HiRes samples, which all use the same master.  The better sound from MQA tracks on Tidal are because they were using better masters.   

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6 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Clay has previously stated that MQA licensing is  far too expensive for a small outfit like his. 

 

Thanks for the explanation. Should have read all the comments first

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8 minutes ago, Eugene.cho said:

Thanks for the explanation. Should have read all the comments first

Would not have expected you to read out about MQA for Gieseler DACs.  It was buried in one of threads on an older model DAC that I happen to have then.  

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Why would you release a band new DAC with a chip that's already outdated other than to save a couple dollars?
People that buy this stuff surprise me.

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For the record the AK4495 that I’m using is actually more expensive than the AK4493 which would normally 

be used in that series of DAC.

Sure it is a older older model (2015) but it was their flagship chip at the time & IMHO still stacks up very well.

Interestingly Digikey the AKM distributer have 3k+ in stock so I’m guessing it must still be fairly popular for them to stock

that many.

Edited by Gieseler Audio
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Hi Clay,

 

is there such a thing as a digital pass through on a dac. I recently acquired a DEQX and find it a little bright and not as musical when compared to Fein2. I was thinking Mac mini to dac, analogue out to my tube amp as normal but also an untouched digital out to the DEQX to correct subs. I know I loose some of the DEQX functionality but maybe I could swap the DEQX for a Mini dsp SHD? Just wondering 

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19 hours ago, Gabehcuod said:

Why would you release a band new DAC with a chip that's already outdated other than to save a couple dollars?
People that buy this stuff surprise me.

 

Wow, that's an extremely narrow-minded and misguided comment!

 

Don't you own an Denafrips Ares II - which uses discrete R2R boards? By many accounts (not mine BTW) this is outdated technology. By your logic, you'd better sell up for a DAC featuring the latest and greatest chipset which wins the spec-sheet war.

 

 

Edited by pete_mac
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2 hours ago, pete_mac said:

 

Wow, that's an extremely narrow-minded and misguided comment!

 

Don't you own an Denafrips Ares II - which uses discrete R2R boards? By many accounts (not mine BTW) this is outdated technology. By your logic, you'd better sell up for a DAC featuring the latest and greatest chipset which wins the spec-sheet war.

 

People that say this kind of stuff without first engaging their brain really surprise me...

There's a difference between using a different topology and using an outdated chip or FPGA.
Using an outdated chip in a chip DAC is like buying a brand new laptop with a 6th gen CPU. Sure, it might beat a poor implementation but that doesn't change the fact that you should be using the newest tech you can for a price point, especially with DAC technology that is constantly evolving.

 

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14 minutes ago, Gabehcuod said:

There's a difference between using a different topology and using an outdated chip or FPGA.
Using an outdated chip in a chip DAC is like buying a brand new laptop with a 6th gen CPU. Sure, it might beat a poor implementation but that doesn't change the fact that you should be using the newest tech you can for a price point, especially with DAC technology that is constantly evolving.

 

 

"Outdated" can still sound great.

"Newest" can still sound ordinary.

IMHO there are NO guarantees in the audio world.

Edited by JohnL
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28 minutes ago, Gabehcuod said:

There's a difference between using a different topology and using an outdated chip or FPGA.
Using an outdated chip in a chip DAC is like buying a brand new laptop with a 6th gen CPU. Sure, it might beat a poor implementation but that doesn't change the fact that you should be using the newest tech you can for a price point, especially with DAC technology that is constantly evolving.

 

 

Sorry mate, you are so far off the mark that's it's not funny. "Outdated chip" - I think not.

 

I'm not going to derail Clay's thread any further with a debate on this.

 

Edited by pete_mac
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Actually  it did not involve that much time  so I have designed a second version of the new board that will suite the AK4493 chip. That way I can order a small quantity of both versions, build one of each & do some comparison measurement/listening 

tests.

Then whatever performs the best will go into the new model.

However from past experience I find the power supply and output stage has a far bigger influence on the sound than the actual chip used.

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I really don’t care what the chip is called that Clay chooses to put in this new DAC. If it sounds good (which by all accounts it most certainly will), I’m going to buy one. 

 

I couldn’t care less about MQA either.  Quality of recording, like power supply and output stage in a DAC (as Clay noted), will make more difference than the latest audio acronym .... ;)

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12 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Actually  it did not involve that much time  so I have designed a second version of the new board that will suite the AK4493 chip. That way I can order a small quantity of both versions, build one of each & do some comparison measurement/listening 

tests.

Then whatever performs the best will go into the new model.

However from past experience I find the power supply and output stage has a far bigger influence on the sound than the actual chip used.

Yeah,
Plus its nice to be able to support Quad Rate DSD for fans of that format. The old chip you were going to use only does DSD64 which is a giant blow to fans of NativeDSD.

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