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Active Speakers - would you consider?

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1 hour ago, AudioGeek said:

@Midget dont buy sight unseen without hearing something. Particularly if it is based on one persons revommendation. Seen that not end well before.....

Use suggestions as a starting point, but then you need to have a listen

I do agree with that. SA Legend is both a passive and an active speaker. Meaning silverback is the active version but they were built as a good passive speaker first. Check if Rio have some of the passives.

 

None the less, listen to what you can and priorities what you have heard.

 

1 hour ago, AudioGeek said:

Big fan of active crossovers and active speakers in general. But the wireless bit is a bit misleading, you just replace a speaker cable connection with a power cable. For a multichannel HT setup that can be painful.

 

Active speakers need power... what active speakers don't? Wireless just means 1 less cable. What are you trying to say with the message? That all active speakers need power but wireless ones (I.e. LS50 wireless) give an extra freedom as no audio cable run to the speaker is needed?

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17 hours ago, Midget said:

Does the Dynaudio XEO 30 have an active crossover or passive? It is similar in stature.

Maybe these guys are close to you?

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, gwurb said:

Wireless just means 1 less cable.

What I meant is how people misunderstand the implications of wireless, particularly WiSA.

 

Its NOT 1 less cable. Instead of a speaker cable going to the back of your passive, you now have a power cable going to the back of your active. In most dometic scenarios it can actually be easier to conceal speaker cables than a power cables that require different outlets.

 

The main advantage of an active speaker - depending on how you set up - is less components, other "boxes" like amps etc. Depending on the speakers this may mean a hub for multiple sources, or as simple as streaming music directly to the speakers.

 

A lot of guys still use a pre into their active speakers.

 

Edit. Maybe we are talking about different things.

I mean going from passive to wireless - which by default has to be active.

As opposed to going from active to active wireless?

Edited by AudioGeek

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25 minutes ago, AudioGeek said:

Edit. Maybe we are talking about different things.

I mean going from passive to wireless - which by default has to be active.

As opposed to going from active to active wireless?

I get you. The most recent question was for active as a min requirement. WISA is a good initiative in my opinion. Klipsch and Harmon support is also great. The active to active wireless benefit is great if sound quality is not compromised. 
 

In terms of passive to active wired then your power cable vs speaker cable point is spot on.

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10 hours ago, gwurb said:

SA Legend is both a passive and an active speaker. Meaning silverback is the active version but they were built as a good passive speaker first.

This creates a perfect controlled test when manufacturers do this. When an active version sounds substantially better than the passive version it is a testament to the advantages of active designs. 

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Posted (edited)

The Buchardt A500's have room correction using an iPhone. This would seem to use the full potential of the DSP. What other brands have implemented room eq with a microphone in the active speaker market other than lifestyle speakers like Sonos?

 

https://www.buchardtaudio.com/a500-detailed-description

Edited by Midget

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kef ls50W

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Has anyone noticed that the Buchardt A500 and the SA Silverback share the same back plate? Does anyone know what this might mean and how much they might share with one another.

 

Also, they both do not have a subwoofer out. So while the Buchardt appears to have in-room correction with a phone speaker, would it still require something like a MiniDSP SHD or a NAD C 658 to integrate a subwoofer well for time alignment and crossover?

 

A500-Wallnut-2.jpg.472685629434a2a0aea34bd95934865c.jpg

Silverback.jpeg.6378863ac9e1059b68febd66a0c11de3.jpeg

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Midget said:

Has anyone noticed that the Buchardt A500 and the SA Silverback share the same back plate? Does anyone know what this might mean and how much they might share with one another.

 

Also, they both do not have a subwoofer out. So while the Buchardt appears to have in-room correction with a phone speaker, would it still require something like a MiniDSP SHD or a NAD C 658 to integrate a subwoofer well for time alignment and crossover?

 

A500-Wallnut-2.jpg.472685629434a2a0aea34bd95934865c.jpg

Silverback.jpeg.6378863ac9e1059b68febd66a0c11de3.jpeg

 

That's cool!

 

I was reading that SA changed the way they develop speakers around 2012-14. From memory they have collaborations and staff from other places designing their products. Maybe they worked with Buchardt? I wonder if that backplate can be tuned by anyone who buys one. If there is an option to modify its settings maybe anyone can start transforming their passive speakers to active? SA have an option to buy it for their passives so one can do their own passive to active upgrade. https://system-audio.com/product/sa-legend-40-upgrade/


It seems that SA beat Buchardt to the market. Buchardt even have a hub similar to SA (almost identical?): 

https://www.buchardtaudio.com/products/stereo-hub

 

are you looking at WISA subwoofer? Are you looking at having it wireless? It would be the transmitter that would need to do the integration and separation of channels.

Edited by gwurb

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Yeah that hub and remote are exactly the same too! Someone needs to do a teardown to see what else they share.

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14 minutes ago, Midget said:

Yeah that hub and remote are exactly the same too! Someone needs to do a teardown to see what else they share.

You buying? ;) 

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I’ve had many hi-end speakers from Wilson Audio, Gryphon and TAD.

These SGR’s are a one box solution that I could happily live with if I didn’t have my main system.

A very, very impressive speaker with a tiny footprint and big sound.

Highly recommended from someone who is hard to please.

The devialet are also highly recommended as a party/Bluetooth  speaker.

CF7A9349-1C81-4317-A2E2-4665E4713B13.jpeg

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Can’t wait till the day I can get a $30k secondary system. Would love to see what you listen to on the toilet. 

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On 19/04/2020 at 11:17 AM, Midget said:

My wife’s patience is growing short and she doesn’t like the “journey”, she wants to “shortcut” to the “endgame“.

End game???? Bahahaha hilarious!

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7 hours ago, gwurb said:

You buying? ;) 

They are probably sourcing from the same oem. Much easier for both small companies to intergrate something allready developed and available.

The question is who makes it?

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8 hours ago, gwurb said:

You buying? ;) 

I’m interested in the Silverbacks and Rio said the are looking to import them. No indication of AU price yet however.
 

I think the A700’s from Buchardt are going to be a significant jump up in price from the A500’s. 

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On 15/03/2020 at 11:52 AM, almikel said:

I'm not aware of any powered speakers that use passive crossovers.

Active crossovers became popular nearly 45 years ago in sound reinforcement systems (PA systems), when the Linkwitz Riley 4th order crossover was invented by Siegfried Linkwitz and Russ Riley in 1976 and has been the the industry standard pro crossover ever since...only now overtaken by DSP

 

Mike

Some of the budget active speakers use passive crossovers.At least on the tweeters anyway.I have a pair like that.I was surprised when I opened them up to find a crossover cap on the tweeter but suspect that is quite common because a low value capacitor is much cheaper than a dedicated electronic crossover.

It makes you think a lot of the common desk top/studio monitor type speakers like those from KRK might be configured that way.Some makers do claim full electronic crossovers but most don't.

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1 hour ago, AudioGeek said:

They are probably sourcing from the same oem.

Understandable. But for me this would be reason enough to turn to a company that has a long history of producing DSP-based active speakers, such as Genelec.

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24 minutes ago, DarkTree said:

Understandable. But for me this would be reason enough to turn to a company that has a long history of producing DSP-based active speakers, such as Genelec.

No argument from me, Genelec and Neuman etc. make awesome active speakers. For whatever reason they are more popular in the pro market, whereas Buchardt etc, are aimed at the consumer audiophile market.

DSP is not hard, I think a lot of companies have figured it out.

The great thing is there is lots of choice for whatever people feel comfortable with.

If cost is comparable I think the SA or Buchardt would look much better in my multipurpose room than a Genelec despite their heritage. But thats my personal choice.

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3 hours ago, Midget said:

I’m interested in the Silverbacks and Rio said the are looking to import them. No indication of AU price yet however.
 

I think the A700’s from Buchardt are going to be a significant jump up in price from the A500’s. 

I'll be interested in any news.

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17 hours ago, Yamaha_man said:

I’ve had many hi-end speakers from Wilson Audio, Gryphon and TAD.

These SGR’s are a one box solution that I could happily live with if I didn’t have my main system.

A very, very impressive speaker with a tiny footprint and big sound.

Highly recommended from someone who is hard to please.

The devialet are also highly recommended as a party/Bluetooth  speaker.

CF7A9349-1C81-4317-A2E2-4665E4713B13.jpeg

The Devialet Phantoms look like 2 astronaut helmets talking to each other, or for Covid-19 times should that be 2 medical staff?

 

 

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7 hours ago, AudioGeek said:

DSP is not hard, I think a lot of companies have figured it out.

Correct.

 

The real reality is that using an amplifier channel per driver, and a DSP (ADC/DAC), is expensive.    If your target market won't pay big $ for it.... then it doesn't feature.

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12 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Correct.

 

The real reality is that using an amplifier channel per driver, and a DSP (ADC/DAC), is expensive.    If your target market won't pay big $ for it.... then it doesn't feature.

The parts cost is not high. I'd love to see the actual cost of manufacture and assembly.

 

Rough costs for ebay products to put together 2 active speakers:

2x2 channel amps with TI chips ~ $250

MiniDSP ~$500

DAC such as topping d50s ~$400

Add that to ~$1000 of drivers

Also add ~$300 of wood 

Also add $50 for connectors and wire

 

$2500? The actual price will be lower as above are *retail prices. They take in to account R&D, labour, sales, distribution, etc. The cost price of all of those is lower. Let's say that above prices are cost prices for better sub parts than I considered. In reality from around ~$2500 the retail price goes up to $4000+ with sale price of something lower. A lower end model can be easily made for sub $2500 with a lower sale price. Maybe I got the pricing wrong, I would love to see the cost price of 2 active speakers for a manufacturer. 

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3 hours ago, gwurb said:

In reality from around ~$2500 the retail price goes up to $4000

LOL

 

 

In reality DSP costs a manufacturer less than what you've quoted ..... but even so, the BOM for a speaker is very sensitive, and manufacturers won't use DSP, or multiple amps... unless it really really(!!) makes sense.

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