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Starting from scratch on a minimal budget


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Hi All.

I'm starting my system from scratch with a simple goal.

to spend as little as possible while getting the system to the point I'm happy with, and then upgrade as I feel necessary along the way.

Mainly due to 2 reasons

1) Diminishing returns the further up you go

2) Live in a 2br unit, with bugger all space

 

In the past I've had multiple bouts with decent-ish equipment (for my $ range) such as the diamond 9 Jamo system, Focal JMLabs floorstanders, fostex self built boxes, a few class D "chipamps"

 

Anyway, I recently scored some equipment and here's what I have at the moment.

 

B&W DM302 (these seem OK overall)

B&W DM100 (they lack bottom end somehow even though they're larger than the DM302, but very rich vocals)

Jamo satellites, which would be good size for a desk, but unfortunately don't sound that great, and have bugger all sensitivity.

Pioneer VSX-522 (nothing fancy receiver, but it does have this virtual front soundstage mode that does make everything sound better, somehow)

Vintage Pioneer SA-520 (I googled this, and it's not really audiophile quality, but it'll be a beaut once cleaned up)

USB DAC of some sort

 

 

my target is probably 2 areas

1 Living room with an nvidia shield as a source

1 bedroom desk with a laptop as a source.

I'm thinking 2.1 systems in both, but happy with other ideas.

 

 

Questions

1) Would a new receiver be better (due to the fancy virtual effects, etc) or should I stick to something like a topping amp for purity, and if so which one?

2) what speakers should I keep, something tells me the DM100s might need a recap and could be better than the 302, but it might be a hassle to find space for them

3) Should I get a DAC + amp? or receiver?

 

any other tips will be appreciated...

hope I dont offend anyone with my budget, but I take the low $ as a challenge.. I'm ready to spend the money where there will be a worthy improvement for me.

Edited by audiodude
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38 minutes ago, audiodude said:

Would a new receiver be better (due to the fancy virtual effects, etc) or should I stick to something like a topping amp for purity, and if so which one?

 

I do not like the idea of virtual effects in a system aimed at being at least a little "hifi".    Just my 2c.

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hmmm....  If i was you, I would sell everything you've got and buy a nice set of used speakers and a complementary amp to go with it. 

The thing is, right now you've got quite a large collection of mediocre equipment, you shouldn't have an issue getting $500 out of it all, just throw it all up on ebay.  Then find a $300~ish set of speakers, and a $200~ish amp, and you'll be set. 

Just have a single great system, because you'll find yourself listing on the best one anyway, and your better off having 1 great system and the other just doing its job. 

 

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16 minutes ago, YaBoiiGarfield said:

hmmm....  If i was you, I would sell everything you've got and buy a nice set of used speakers and a complementary amp to go with it. 

The thing is, right now you've got quite a large collection of mediocre equipment, you shouldn't have an issue getting $500 out of it all, just throw it all up on ebay.  Then find a $300~ish set of speakers, and a $200~ish amp, and you'll be set. 

Just have a single great system, because you'll find yourself listing on the best one anyway, and your better off having 1 great system and the other just doing its job. 

 

I thought the B&Ws were good? what would you get instead?

for a cheap option i was tempted in getting the Voll B50, their B44 were excellent value for money, but not many reviews for their newer model.

but I'm at odds, even an old B&W "should" be better than a "no name" company. dunno

Edited by audiodude
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34 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

I do not like the idea of virtual effects in a system aimed at being at least a little "hifi".    Just my 2c.

I tend to agree with you, however, I was surprised with this effect on such a cheap amp.

Would you go for a simpler amp only rather than receiver?

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3 minutes ago, audiodude said:

I tend to agree with you, however, I was surprised with this effect on such a cheap amp.

Would you go for a simpler amp only rather than receiver?

Absolutely.   I have no need of radio input, nor surround sound effects, so a simple power amp, or integrated if you need input switching.

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12 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Absolutely.   I have no need of radio input, nor surround sound effects, so a simple power amp, or integrated if you need input switching.

OK simple power amp will be for the living room. as there's only 1 source, the nividia shield.

Only problem is it doesn't have audio out, just HDMI  or USB, so I'll need a USB DAC and amp (or combo)

should I go for an old school nad? any model in particular? or go the newer chinese class D like SMSL AD18 or topping?

Edited by audiodude
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7 minutes ago, audiodude said:

OK simple power amp will be for the living room. as there's only 1 source, the nividia shield.

Only problem is it doesn't have audio out, just HDMI  or USB, so I'll need a USB DAC and amp (or combo)

should I go for a nad? any model in particular? or go the newer chinese class D like SMSL or topping?

I use a Topping D10 USB DAC, fed from a raspberry Pi running Moode, so sort of like your nvidia shield setup.  The Moode software can control the D10 hardware volume, so I don't even need an amp with a remote volume control. Topping make better DACs and they are good value - but even the D10 makes nice sound.

 

The amps that use modules like Hypex and Purifi look attractive.  NAD uses one of them doesn't it?  Also, there's March Audio in South Australia I believe with some nice stuff.

 

Many people, including myself, have heard good sounds from the cheaper Asian amps.  Some are better than others.  I like the older Tripath based amps for example, and I am currently using one as the bass end of a bi-amped speaker setup.

 

 

Edited by aussievintage
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1 hour ago, audiodude said:

I thought the B&Ws were good? what would you get instead?

for a cheap option i was tempted in getting the Voll B50, their B44 were excellent value for money, but not many reviews for their newer model.

but I'm at odds, even an old B&W "should" be better than a "no name" company. dunno

Don't get me wrong, the DM302s are good speakers, I myself have a set of DM303s and they are great sounding speakers, but they are no where near as detailed as my B&W 685.  Even my DM602s that i had are much better than the 303s.

Stay away from "no name", and you be fine. 

 

are you comfortable buying used gear?  because you will end up with a much better system, and the best part is, used gear doesn't depreciate nearly as fast as new gear, if at all.   The 302s will be much better than the Voll speakers,   if you were to buy a set of volls, they would be worthless immediately after purchase, which is saying something.  the 302s are probably worth somewhere around $200 as they sit, maybe abit more. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, YaBoiiGarfield said:

Don't get me wrong, the DM302s are good speakers, I myself have a set of DM303s and they are great sounding speakers, but they are no where near as detailed as my B&W 685.  Even my DM602s that i had are much better than the 303s.

Stay away from "no name", and you be fine. 

 

are you comfortable buying used gear?  because you will end up with a much better system, and the best part is, used gear doesn't depreciate nearly as fast as new gear, if at all.   The 302s will be much better than the Voll speakers,   if you were to buy a set of volls, they would be worthless immediately after purchase, which is saying something.  the 302s are probably worth somewhere around $200 as they sit, maybe abit more. 

 

 

definitely comfortable buying used. and agree with you the Volls will have next to no re-sale value, even if they're good.

Just looked at the dimensions of the 602 and they're a bit too large for the bookshelf I have (Ikea Kallax) I could move the shelf, but it's a hassle I don't want at the moment.

I'll focus on getting a dac/amp, and selling all the remaining stuff

Edited by audiodude
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I would keep the B&W 601 as they are more modern sounding and detailed matched to used Sony MW40 $50 subwoofer or similar.

 

AV or receiver amps with effects in a 2.1 will do nothing, you will prefer the setting often best on stereo or 2 channel mode even then usually sounding very bland vs a proper stereo hifi amp. There are some exceptions like the old Panasonic X-R series chip ciruit HT amps of 10-15 years and others like old flagship models built to high standard once worth $3-5k now $300-1000 used e.g Sony ES 333 and 777 models etc.

Edited by Al.M
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3 hours ago, aussievintage said:

I use a Topping D10 USB DAC, fed from a raspberry Pi running Moode, so sort of like your nvidia shield setup.  The Moode software can control the D10 hardware volume, so I don't even need an amp with a remote volume control. Topping make better DACs and they are good value - but even the D10 makes nice sound.

 

The amps that use modules like Hypex and Purifi look attractive.  NAD uses one of them doesn't it?  Also, there's March Audio in South Australia I believe with some nice stuff.

 

Many people, including myself, have heard good sounds from the cheaper Asian amps.  Some are better than others.  I like the older Tripath based amps for example, and I am currently using one as the bass end of a bi-amped speaker setup.

 

 

as far as the D10.

what happens for example if you play a movie that uses DTS and such? would in this case, the Nvidia shield recognise that the DAC doesn't decode it, and decode itself and pass PCM?

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52 minutes ago, Al.M said:

I would keep the B&W 601 as they are more modern sounding and detailed matched to used Sony MW40 $50 subwoofer or similar.

 

AV or recover amps with effects in a 2.1 will do nothing, you will prefer the setting often best on stereo or 2 channel mode even then usually sounding very bland vs a proper stereo hifi amp. There are some exceptions like the old Panasonic X-R series chip ciruit HT amps of 10-15 years and others like old flagship models built to high standard once worth $3-5k now $300-1000 used e.g Sony ES 333 and 777 models etc.

don't have any 601 unfortunately, just 302.

in your opinion, I gather than all of the recent receivers are no good, except for a selected few..

would that mean that going a small chinese amp with good reputation be OK? or should I hunt old amps?

PS: someone in Sydney selling some 601s, in the classifieds, bummer i have too many speakers at the moment, otherwise i'd have a chat to him/her

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2 hours ago, audiodude said:

as far as the D10.

what happens for example if you play a movie that uses DTS and such? would in this case, the Nvidia shield recognise that the DAC doesn't decode it, and decode itself and pass PCM?

I am a bit confused.  This is an audio system.  If I was building an AV system, I would use HDMI to an AV receiver, and on to the TV.

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2 hours ago, audiodude said:

don't have any 601 unfortunately, just 302

Sorry I meant B&W 302, similar thing more modern sound to the old 101 speaker.

 

There are common posts comparing AV amps to 2 channel stereo saying that many even $600-3000 rrp AV sound crap for music and receivers are also implicated. Marantz and Anthem AV amps are also reported to be better sounding. The Panasonic I mentioned can be found used for $100-300. The issue with A.V. amps is they have to cram so many bells and whistle features into it that chews up money at the expense of good quality sound amp power parts. A 2 channel Chinese amp may be Ok it depends which one, not all 2 ch amps whether Chinese or not are good either. Find a model you are keen on and post back here for comments, otherwise how long is a piece of string?

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3 hours ago, Al.M said:

comparing AV amps to 2 channel stereo

My goal is to use the system for watching videos as well as music. Do i need a receiver so i can use decode dts and such? Is it worth having 5 or 7 channels when all i need is 2.1? Would just having an amplifier reduce the audio quality of video due to no codecs?

Edited by audiodude
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13 hours ago, audiodude said:

My goal is to use the system for watching videos as well as music. Do i need a receiver so i can use decode dts and such? Is it worth having 5 or 7 channels when all i need is 2.1? Would just having an amplifier reduce the audio quality of video due to no codecs?

From my experience, combing the two brings the video side of things out on top. Get a pair of cheap 7.1 headphones for the video playback.

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OK, So I'll get a small amp for 2 channels, and add a subwoofer.

how does a SMSL AD18 sound for a combo amp/dac for ~$200?

There are good reviews on it, but the brand might not have much resale value when i decide to sell, so I'm open to alternatives.

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AD18 amp not so good reviews here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-smsl-ad18-dac-amp.7325/

 

Perhaps wait for more comments from others tuning in here. 80w power into 4 ohm speaker load but not state into 8 ohms, might be 40w instead. The whole thing weighs only 1.5kg whereas other proper solid state amps are around 6-20kg, but this is using a lightweight chip circuit amp so may still be ok. A used Rotel R10 or 12 or similar may be better with external or onboard wifi https://www.lenc.com.au/blogs/news/the-10-best-integrated-amplifiers

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1 hour ago, Al.M said:

AD18 amp not so good reviews here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-smsl-ad18-dac-amp.7325/

 

Perhaps wait for more comments from others tuning in here. 80w power into 4 ohm speaker load but not state into 8 ohms, might be 40w instead. The whole thing weighs only 1.5kg whereas other proper solid state amps are around 6-20kg, but this is using a lightweight chip circuit amp so may still be ok. A used Rotel R10 or 12 or similar may be better with external or onboard wifi https://www.lenc.com.au/blogs/news/the-10-best-integrated-amplifiers

Given the two and for the price. I'd probably prefer a newer class D chipamp. They use less power and some (not all) have proven themselves to be just as good if not better than AB.

 

Reason it's lighter it's because the power supply is external. Also the chip integrates a lot of functions that in AB are external.as far as i know.

Edited by audiodude
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