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picked up Gemini man on uhd as part of the local JB hifi sales,

 

408837-Product-0-I_514f95e9-217e-4597-ba

 

bought it not knowing a lot about it, but hit man sniper ..espionage.. action flick. heck ticks some boxes for me....

 

little did I know on a few aspects ! :D

 

firstly ... and this is important particularly for the 4k UHD blu-ray aspect.... this is only THE 2nd release commercially of a 4k UHD that is produced in high frame rate... the last was Billy Lynn's long halftime walk.... the common thread is the director Ang Lee.. who also directed the visually splendid life of pi. now I realised this movie was in 4k 60p only when I saw the one line announcement of this at the start of the film...luckliy I was using my oppo 205 that can run 24p or high frame rate 50/60p. if you have a panasonic player you will have to make sure you turn the 4k 50/60p flag on in its menu as otherwise it shows everything in 4k 24p..which is also splendid with this film but will miss out on the high frame rate aspect.

 

and you are confronted by a particularly splendid looking picture with this film. as far as 4k uhd goes. I can honestly say... I dont know if you can get better. checking imdb specs this film is ari alexa and phantom flex 4k shot and with a 4k digital intermediate ... in picture quality it really is as good as it gets 4k wise. and my good ness it hits you on the face from get go... the picture has a smoothness, clean clear not even a spec of noise to be seen. just ultimate clarity and such colours and definition to this picture... honestly not ever seen anything like it ... the 60p aspect also gives a VERY smooth look to the movie as well. Now this and the overall look to the film is possibly controversial... in itself ...it lacks a complete film look to the movie... its more day time (soap opera) look to it..its quite an unnerving feel to it in some ways...almost unnatural computer game like... as if an unreal world...however it is hard to disregard the simply jaw dropping visuals that present...and as unreal as it is many real world shots look very real world as you are just purveying them in front of you. overall picture quality 10/10 not sure how can get any better especially if accept the non film base and high frame rate aspect...

 

now same goes with the audio...its an absolute feast.... right from get go with being on a train and the rumble as goes past. things like bullet shots, ricocheting  around, action scenes things going on all around you. blasts explosions all sorts of very wow stuff. overall audio 9/10

 

so ok its quite mind blowing in picture and audio...what about as a movie :D this will also be controversial.... I am a fan of will smith....and a lot of this movie has me thinking of I am Legend which is a better film in many ways... but there are aspects of this movie I like. It has plenty going on in it ... and you go along nicely for the ride. its not a deep story line, but does have a hook in it. and this in itself is quite controversial in own right... that there is an actor in it that is CGI adjusted and very significantly and for good reason through out the whole film...not to give too much more away... but it leaves questions to me whether this in itself is a good thing ... will we have actors in the future or just CGI.... hmmm. overall id give the movie itself a 6/10

 

with such a splendid looking film, some taster of amazing picture quality below which to be honest has to be seen in person to appreciate it looks absolutely stunning on the projector ...

 

0I9A8019.jpeg

 

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0I9A8024.jpeg

 

0I9A8025.jpeg

 

0I9A8027.jpeg

 

0I9A8032.jpeg

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Definitely one to get Al . The problem is that we are all conditioned to the judder of 24p and interpolation is needed to get the frame rate up to 50/ 60hz anyway [is the way I see it pun not intended :$] . So why not do it natively ; we will get used to it eventually ??

Return to form from Bright .. anything would though :)

 

 

Edited by cwt
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7 hours ago, poppybob said:

What aspect ratio is it in?

Yes seems a trend lately, as per cwt not quite 16:9 ... fills 16:9 screen with very narrow black bars above and below :) ... similar to joker

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Yes, but here's the real kicker @betty boop, the feature film on the UHD disc is only 1080p........which begs the question when is UHD not UHD??? My Panasonic 55GZ1000U OLED flashes up 1080p/60Hz/Dolby Vision when I hit the info button and she no lie.

This particular monitor was calibrated my Mick Peaker (Avical) in November.

 

Gemini.jpg.fb52683d799f1a8271e93c786ee08b4b.jpg

 

You're right about the visuals and colours really pop. One of the things I really like about this production is that for many parts of the film it feels like you're looking though a window and it almost has a 3d feel to it. There's no motion judder at all with this presentation at 60Hz.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Happy Sacks said:

ou're right about the visuals and colours really pop. One of the things I really like about this production is that for many parts of the film it feels like you're looking though a window and it almost has a 3d feel to it. There's no motion judder at all with this presentation at 60Hz

Been super impressed !!!

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8 hours ago, betty boop said:

Hi @Happy Sacks it’s most definitely coming up 4k uhd for me see screen shot below from opening scene showing 3840x2160 59.94p HDR 

 

4BA27C46-48B3-496F-9B0A-9EA038F1133E.jpeg

 

You sure didn’t pop the blu-ray in by accident ? I’ve done it at times :D

It would appear that my disc is in fact 4K, but only being output at 1080p. I have plenty of other Dolby Vision discs that play just fine so I'd say the issue centres around the frame rate used. I've contacted Mick Peaker, who calibrated my monitor and player, as I can't readily see anything in the current settings of the Monitor or Player that should affect the output.

 

Gemini2.jpg.b1fb78de05cf012db6018db9cbfd1974.jpg

 

Speaking of which, I can't understand why many people don't get their video gear calibrated. I would think most people are only getting around 30% of what their screen/players/streaming content are capable of providing. Second best value for money tweak you to do for any AV system IMO.

 

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28 minutes ago, Happy Sacks said:

It would appear that my disc is in fact 4K, but only being output at 1080p. I have plenty of other Dolby Vision discs that play just fine so I'd say the issue centres around the frame rate used. I've contacted Mick Peaker, who calibrated my monitor and player, as I can't readily see anything in the current settings of the Monitor or Player that should affect the output.

 

Gemini2.jpg.b1fb78de05cf012db6018db9cbfd1974.jpg

 

Speaking of which, I can't understand why many people don't get their video gear calibrated. I would think most people are only getting around 30% of what their screen/players/streaming content are capable of providing. Second best value for money tweak you to do for any AV system IMO.

 

Possible something in the midst holding back full res being passed for self, :) could be cable or other setting (it’s a minefield) . Am not running Dolby vision - can’t comment on that, but definitely comes through full strength  on hdr10 as per screen shot. 

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On 25/01/2020 at 9:47 PM, betty boop said:

the 60p aspect also gives a VERY smooth look to the movie as well. Now this and the overall look to the film is possibly controversial... in itself ...it lacks a complete film look to the movie... its more day time (soap opera) look to it..its quite an unnerving feel to it in some ways...almost unnatural computer game like... as if an unreal world...

I'll be very interested to give this try. I also bought in the 30% off deal along with 3 others. I hated the feel of Billy Lynn when demo'ed at the SNA HiFi show so much I had to comment about soap opera effect, and it stopped me from buying a copy. Perhaps as you said we will become accustomed to it over time.

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some could find a spooky feel, the 60p is possibly compounded with use of the ari  with its very digital pristine look, some talk here re the use of the Arri in making the film, an amazing amount of tech involved clearly ! ps it seems more an ad for arri rental, but gives bit of idea...

 

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6 hours ago, Happy Sacks said:

It would appear that my disc is in fact 4K, but only being output at 1080p. I have plenty of other Dolby Vision discs that play just fine so I'd say the issue centres around the frame rate used. I've contacted Mick Peaker, who calibrated my monitor and player, as I can't readily see anything in the current settings of the Monitor or Player that should affect the output.

I see with the gui you have a 9000 or 820 . If everything is on auto what happens when you force 4k@60 in the menu ?  Methinks its the bandwidth your sending as the pana's uniquely upscale uhd 4:2:0 colour gamut to 4:4:4 with their multi tap processing; which points to your cables :|

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18 minutes ago, cwt said:

I see with the gui you have a 9000 or 820 . If everything is on auto what happens when you force 4k@60 in the menu ?  Methinks its the bandwidth your sending as the pana's uniquely upscale uhd 4:2:0 colour gamut to 4:4:4 with their multi tap processing; which points to your cables :|

id say you are onto it @cwt

 

@Happy Sacks fyi on the oppo 205 below is what it coverts output to... and will be what it is converting to for my display (jvc n7 projector) to receive,

 

0I9A8030.jpeg

 

I do have an pana 9000, am happy to next time fire it up, check both media it reports and also what it is outputting at when forced to 60p :) if helps any...

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@Happy Sacks checked gemini man out for you tonight using the panasonic ub9000

 

can see with screen shot below am getting 3840x2160/60p off the disc and it is being output at 4k/60p for my display

0I9A8054.jpeg

 

not sure on your specific settings as you are using dolby vision, but mine is set as per below to force 4k 50/60 output (which is necessary on the panasonic otherwise it sends at 4k24p...which is what want for most things as dont really want it upsampling everything to 4k 50/60,) just have to select to force for stuff like this.

 

0I9A8049.jpeg

 

and below is screen to select....

 

0I9A8061.jpeg

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Thanks @betty boop & @cwt for the info, but if I turn Dolby Vision off on the UB9000 the film will play in 4K, 60Hz, HDR10 just fine. I only have the issue with Dolby Vision switched on. 

 

@cwt, Im not saying cables aren't the problem, but I'm running Audioquest Carbon, one of which is only a few months old. AudioQuest HDMI cables with "Exceeds 18 G bps" on the box front are guaranteed to exceed the requirements for all possible HDMI data streams. The fact I can run the film in 4K, HDR10, 60fps, 4:2:2 in 12 bit colour would suggest that the cables are more than capable of transferring the data at the rate required. That said, I do agree that based upon the disc info provided by the UB9000 that there is likely to be a bottleneck somewhere that forces the player to output the signal at 1080p in order to maintain 60Hz frame rate. I'll see if I can acquire a HDMI 2.1 cable just to be absolutely 100% sure.

 

According to the manufacturers, Panasonic (UB9000 & 55GZ1000U), Audioquest (Carbon HDMI) and Anthem (AVM60), all the equipment I use should be able to handle anything thrown at it. 

 

Thanks ever so much for your suggestions and help as this what forums are all about.

 

Al, I notice you've reverted back to using the Oppo UDP-205. Personally, I don't think there's much, if anything, between the UB9000 and UDP-205 on the video front, but I do think the Panasonic is better on the sound front.....even when you split the HDMI signal to engage the anti-jitter function on the UDP-205. That said, there's a factor I simply like to refer to as "user-friendliness" and both the Oppo UDP-203 & 205 absolutely destroy the Panasonic UB9000 in this regard. When you push the stop button on the Oppo it simply stops, you don't have go through the double "suck it and wait" stop drama on the Panasonic. You push a button and it simply does what you expect it do there and then. Menus are all contained in one place and you don't have to stop the movie to access many settings. 

 

 

 

Edited by Happy Sacks
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@Happy Sacks Gemini man sure seems to be one to test the limits and seems like found one in Dolby vision for you. I’d say few variables there to test through ... is it a Dolby vission bug in either Panasonic Samsung or anthem ? I’d check the web if anyone else is experiencing same :) can’t think of any other movie with 4k60 and Dolby vision ?

 

the other variable in cable will be easily and cheaply checked ... 

 

can pick up from $11 a mono price premium certified that’s guaranteed to work from amazon AU longer lengths available.

 

Monoprice 115427 Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 28AWG, YUV 4:4:4, 3ft, Black https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B01GCGKBWC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_PnkmEbGZF55E6


I see cable chick also selling a 2m version also premium certified at $26

https://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/prolink-2m-premium-certified-hdmi-cable-supports-ultra-hd-4k60hz-hdmi-20.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsZDgw5qn5wIVjTgrCh3UBwNvEAQYASABEgIh9fD_BwE

 

don’t know the brand but it’s premium certified and 5 year warranty. 
 

re the oppo205 I don’t usually use it for regular duty, most my discs go through the pana 9000, I just had an inkling the Gemini man given done by ang lee would be 4k50/60 and rather than faffing around Changing settings on the pana thought pop in the OPPO and low and behold it was 4k50/60 with a message at start which won’t see if system is not capable.

 

agree on the use ability aspect OPPO is just kind with all that, the menu, display, info way just works. It’s worth lot of money these days can’t buy anymore, I have mine fixed for region A Blu-ray and it’s Multi region DVD and mostly use for that and multichannel and 2ch hdaudio discs I have :)

 

anyways hopefully can get to bottom of Gemini man with your system ... it just takes one stumbling block !

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Went into JB Ringwood where they spent 20 minutes finding a way they couldn't be of assistance.

JB Knox is completely the opposite. Useful, polite and helpful.

 

So I came away with a HDMI cable supposedly good for 8K. Hooked it up from the UB9000 direct to the 55GZ1000U. Same result.......bugger. But the news ain't all bad. I've now eliminated the UB9000, the Anthem AVM60 and the Audioquest HDMI cables and being the source of problem, which leaves the Panasonic 55GZ1000 as the cause of my angst in Dolby Vision.

 

Took unsexy 8K HDMI cable back for refund.

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6 minutes ago, Happy Sacks said:

Went into JB Ringwood where they spent 20 minutes finding a way they couldn't be of assistance.

JB Knox is completely the opposite. Useful, polite and helpful.

 

So I came away with a HDMI cable supposedly good for 8K. Hooked it up from the UB9000 direct to the 55GZ1000U. Same result.......bugger. But the news ain't all bad. I've now eliminated the UB9000, the Anthem AVM60 and the Audioquest HDMI cables and being the source of problem, which leaves the Panasonic 55GZ1000 as the cause of my angst in Dolby Vision.

 

Took unsexy 8K HDMI cable back for refund.

Were the JB hifi guys able to pass full bandwidth with Dolby vision ? and Gemini man ? Presume they have a pana player and gz1000 telly ?

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An observation...

 

It's the Colour Depth guys.

 

In Betty Boops' sreenshot the chroma is 4:2:0 , whereas Happy Sacks is 4:4:4 - somewhere in the chain this must be a limiting factor and a device is downscaling - once again perhaps due to bandwith.  All your other DV 4:4:4 content is OK due to the 24p factor HOWEVER @ 60p its brickwalling you for some reason.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lil Caesar
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9 minutes ago, Lil Caesar said:

An observation...

 

It's the Colour Depth guys.

 

In Betty Boops' sreenshot the chroma is 4:2:0 , whereas Happy Sacks is 4:4:4 - somewhere in the chain this must be a limiting factor and a device is downscaling - once again perhaps due to bandwith.  All your other DV 4:4:4 content is OK due to the 24p factor HOWEVER @ 60p its brickwalling you for some reason.

 

 

agree something in the mix must be limiting for happy sacks...

 

where seeing 4:4:4 LC ? all see is 4k 60 12 bit or 1080p 60 12 bit ? in screen shot happy sacks has posted ? 

 

as per chart below and according to hdmi spec,

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

 

 Formats supported by HDMI v2.0. Bold text indicates new formats supported by 2.0 but not by 1.4. Source: HDMI Alliance

HDMI-color-spaces.png

 

if its 10 or 12 bit 4k/50 or 4k/60 hdmi will only support 4:2:0 or 4:2:2, and I note both pana and oppo for hdr10 are converting 4:2:0 10 bit to 4:2:2 12 bit. have already posted pana input and output, only posted the oppo input, below is output and its doing same as pana for me  :) 

 

0I9A8030.jpeg 

 

wouldnt be good idea to convert to 4:4:4 as that is only supported to 8 bit ? as per hdmi spec above ? 

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Hi Al,

 

OK his screenshot is displaying "12 bit" which I interpreted to be 4:4:4, I know this is not strictly the case as per the table you've shown BUT it would explain his problem - ceiling for 4k/60p @ 12-bits is 4:2:0 chroma so his Pana sceen is downscaling to display the content @ 1080p.

Edited by Lil Caesar
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Found this illuminating coming from a well known calibrator [David Mayer ] as its connected with the bandwidth being sent here   ; as we are still dealing with 18gbps until hdmi 2.1 rears its ugly head there are limitations B|

 

As mentioned the bottleneck is pana's colour gamut upscaling ..which was reminiscent of the cable trouble with early hdmi cables that couldn't handle 18gbps.

Quote

As for hardware, up to 30fps UHD Blu-ray with Dolby Vision is no problem as long as your UHD-BD player doesn't convert the output to 4:4:4, rather outputting the native 4:2:0 as it is on the disc.

https://community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2018/05/16/hdmi-data-rates-for-4k-hdr

 

as seen in the graph dolby vision requires about 4 more gbps than hdr10

Edited by cwt
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3 hours ago, cwt said:

Found this illuminating coming from a well known calibrator [David Mayer ] as its connected with the bandwidth being sent here   ; as we are still dealing with 18gbps until hdmi 2.1 rears its ugly head there are limitations B|

 

As mentioned the bottleneck is pana's colour gamut upscaling ..which was reminiscent of the cable trouble with early hdmi cables that couldn't handle 18gbps.

https://community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2018/05/16/hdmi-data-rates-for-4k-hdr

 

as seen in the graph dolby vision requires about 4 more gbps than hdr10

good link cwt, but gee this would be a dolby vission bug that would need to be sorted out by panasonic then that they should resolve ? as it shows as along as signal is kept at its native 4:2:0 or upsampled to 4:2:2 it stays below 18gbps and really as there is no need to be converting to 4:4:4 as its wasteful of bandwidth for no other benefit. hope they can resolve :) hopefully helpful for happy sacks

 

anyone else managed dolby vision off gemini man ? probably help happy sacks to know :) 

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32 minutes ago, betty boop said:

good link cwt, but gee this would be a dolby vission bug that would need to be sorted out by panasonic then that they should resolve ? as it shows as along as signal is kept at its native 4:2:0 or upsampled to 4:2:2 it stays below 18gbps and really as there is no need to be converting to 4:4:4 as its wasteful of bandwidth for no other benefit. hope they can resolve :) hopefully helpful for happy sacks

 

anyone else managed dolby vision off gemini man ? probably help happy sacks to know :) 

Ime looking at the last 2 lines for 4:4;4 colour gamut ; dv  and 4k@60 Al and seeing the data rates are both above 18gbps so the solution is hdmi 2.1 ports or an upgrade of the panas 18gbps ceiling . A new panel like the 1000u may just be waiting for that firmware ? In the meantime Happy should be ok running at 4:2:2 or4:2;0 with 4k/60 and dv ; that just sneaks under [17.82gbps ] as you found :)

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