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Arny87

Woven AT + Sony 570es

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Hi, New member to Stereo.net.au and loving it,

 

I need some help/advice please. I am building a new house (4 months) and Im going a dedicated home theatre room 7.3m x 4.2m. Ive decided to go a AT screen either Woven or Perforated as i want as big as i can fit comfortably in that room, my concern is the brightness, Most i can find have gains of around .8 to .95    

The projector is a Sony 570es (695es) native 4k with 1800lumens, My concern is the size of the screen being 140inch, the throw of around 5.5 - 6m and AT screen wont get very bright. As i would like to hit close to HDR colours/brightness if possible.

 

If anyone has any recommendations i can consider, or better yet has a set up similar that can share experience with.

 

Appreciate your time.

1.jpg

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Hi Chris,

I have very similar sized room to you. Using 150" AT 2:40 screen from OZTS. I've got JVC N7 and only had it a couple of weeks.

Over the coming week I will be checking with light meter what levels I can get. I suspect by the time calibration comes in the light output will drop.

From my eye at the moment the JVC gives more than enough brightness.

Generally the bigger screen won't be as tack sharp or as bright compared with a smaller screen.

Also bear in mind PJ screen 'spec' from some manufacturers may not be truthful.

So the consideration is if you want big bright pictures to maximise for HDR - go with a smaller screen.

I preferred the size immersion.

 

With projectors it is not really possible to hit HDR 1000nits.

Its a compromise to get a bright enough picture that resembles the HDR within the limitations of each projector.

Consider looking into image processing (MadVR, Lumagen, JVC HDR etc) if you are very serious about HDR.

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3 hours ago, WasM said:

Hi Chris,

I have very similar sized room to you. Using 150" AT 2:40 screen from OZTS. I've got JVC N7 and only had it a couple of weeks.

Over the coming week I will be checking with light meter what levels I can get. I suspect by the time calibration comes in the light output will drop.

From my eye at the moment the JVC gives more than enough brightness.

Generally the bigger screen won't be as tack sharp or as bright compared with a smaller screen.

Also bear in mind PJ screen 'spec' from some manufacturers may not be truthful.

So the consideration is if you want big bright pictures to maximise for HDR - go with a smaller screen.

I preferred the size immersion.

 

With projectors it is not really possible to hit HDR 1000nits.

Its a compromise to get a bright enough picture that resembles the HDR within the limitations of each projector.

Consider looking into image processing (MadVR, Lumagen, JVC HDR etc) if you are very serious about HDR.

Yea i might have to do abit of reading regarding the Image processing and what they do..... the JVC N7 has 1900 lumens opposed to the 1800 the sony pumps out.

 

You having a larger screen as well, do you find this is sufficient for you (You say it gives more than enough, are you in a dark room) ? are you running 100% brightness etc ?

Cheers for your reply

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I have a dedicated light controlled room. I doubt 100 lumens for sony vs jvc makes any measurable difference once calibrated.

I haven't viewed enough test material. I am aiming to run the AVCHD screens but based on 30-40 hrs racked up I'm quite happy with the brightness.

 

Its very evident when playing HDR material as the JVC changes HDR mode, filter comes in and the 'pop' stands out.

 

If you have the ability - suggest you install projector and watch some material projected onto the unpainted screen wall (you can always paint after).

Yes its not the AT screen but it will at least give you some experience and you can play around with screen size. When I had my place built I played around with various screen sizes watching different material on the blank wall before I bought the screen.

 

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+10.. it is a must to do before committing to screen size imo.

 

your room drawing.. is that correct?

you have the pj basically shelf mounted so it is over 7m from screen..

1 row of seating looks a bit close to the rear wall.

what is the height of the room?

what speaker set up are you intending?

 

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It doesnt really show it but its roof mounted, at around 5.5m.

 

Speakers are krix LCR

Krix atmospherics AS

Krix Phonix wall mounted

Krix volcanic slim x 2

Anthem 1120 rec

Anthem amp

 

I Will post a better picture

received_2621404354590929.jpeg

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layout looks good  ! jsut a question are the 7.1 surrounds a tad high ? ? might just look that ways being a model. either ways if got 900mm + height differential to heights it will work and if can keep around ear height for the 7.1 it will work a treat 

 

if can just use a wall to size up the screen definitely do ! as not jsut for size but also will give some clues on kind of light possible. 

 

SDR (1080p blu-ray, FTA TV and such) doubt have a concern. but for HDR you want something above around 22FL. around 30FL would be more ideal but can get away with a bit lower. most folk that screen size are often running 1.3 gain screens and such.

 

worth perhaps talking to oztheatre. he sells the sony and also screens. worth maybe also talking to potential calibrator as will have experience with projector, and even if not a AT screen can factor that in with gain.

 

a question though...does the projector HAVE to be so far back ? any thoughts at putting it at closest throw for screen size and leaving just a slight buffer to allow for any inaccuracy of spec ? if table mount projector to start with to test on wall will soon tell you how close can get :)

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Agree, if going for a 140" 16:9 AT screen you'll need every lumen possible for HDR. You lose brightness as you mount the projector further back - I'd suggest 4.5m from lens to screen if you go that large given the modest gain available with AT screens.

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hmm just be aware that pj runs at 26db.. not the quietest pj.

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Okay I might have to look at a few things, laser projector maybe

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I found the Projector Central's Throw Distance Calculator working pretty well in my case so may be you can give it a try and have some idea what kind of brightness you will get with your requirements.


https://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-VW695ES-projection-calculator-pro.htm


I have punched the data you provided into the calculator for testing. If the screen gain you get is 0.9 and throw is 5.5m then the brightness will be 19fL. That is Projector Central's Estimate, which is more accurate than using Manufacturer's Spec. 


19fL is above SDR's recommendation of 16fL but falling short of HDR's 30fL. One simple way to counter that is by reducing the throw distance to 4.35m and get 23fL. That is about the bottom range for any HDR benefit. I bet the last thing you want is to give up your screen size.  


In my case I have two 1080P Benq DLP and a last gen JVC X projecting to a 150" 16:9 Screen Technics white electric screen (probably 1.0 gain) sitting at about 7m. The projectors are all rated at 2000 lumen but the JVC is significantly brighter in real life. They are pretty equal when Benqs are set to High and JVC on Low. 


The Projector Central's calculation tells me that the two Benqs are 14fL and 17fL and JVC 23fL. My own measurements are 15fL, 17fL and 22fL. Considering the age of lamps (600hrs, 700hrs and 400hrs), the results are surprisingly accurate. 


The JVC is about perfect for SDR and it can still do a good job for HDR even at 22fL. The deep black can enhance the contrast and make the bright "feels" stronger. Only no auto tone mapping and constant manual adjustment between movies is a real pain. 

Edited by PKK

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thats interesting, my concern is having the projector in front of the seating being a hassle, and as Hopefullguy stated its a noisy projector as well, Sony are well known for having a brighter display for the lumens they are rated for so im here hoping.... If I can get beautiful picture on SDR I will be pretty happy.

But moving it forwards to achieve 23fL is definitely something worth considering.... i would be happy with that brightness 

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Is there such thing as a woven AT with a gain higher than 1.0 ?

 

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16 hours ago, Arny87 said:

thats interesting, my concern is having the projector in front of the seating being a hassle, and as Hopefullguy stated its a noisy projector as well, Sony are well known for having a brighter display for the lumens they are rated for so im here hoping.... If I can get beautiful picture on SDR I will be pretty happy.

But moving it forwards to achieve 23fL is definitely something worth considering.... i would be happy with that brightness 

As most projectors are designed with front blowing exhaust so sitting behind does make sense to reduce audible noise. I seat 2 to 3 m behind mine so noise is never a problem. I start hearing them if walk close and becomes loud when standing in front.  

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17 hours ago, Arny87 said:

Is there such thing as a woven AT with a gain higher than 1.0 ?

 

 Found one with 1.1 gain. Wonder if any local store has it but at least they do exist.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/STT-169135-WAB-Silver-Ticket-Thin-Bezel/dp/B01M0CMTE3

 

Saw it selling on ebay under $1K but postage could be significant from USA. 

 

Just found OZTS has a screen material called Acoustic Vision4K with 1.16 gain. Under $3k for a 16:9 140". Should fit your needs to get close to 30fL. 

 

https://www.projectorscreens.com.au/16-9-majestic-4k-screens/140-16-9-majestic-fixed-screen-w-evo-ultra-4k-and-fidelio-velvet-frame-as-standard-with-lifetime-warranty-free-shipping.html

 

Edited by PKK

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been in many a theatre with projector jsut behind or ahead. the sony looks to me same as current gen jvc where gone for a larger casing.... larger fans air movement so likely much quieter for lumen to smaller case and fan projectors especially for HDR.

 

so i for one wouldnt hesitates for one minute to mount one of these ahead especially if gets you valuable lumens for HDR...as forward as can for brightest outcome ! need all can for HDR ! especially wiht a larger screen.

 

high gain screen for AT certainly exist with perf and micro perf eg stewart and such. doesnt seymour screen do a higher gain AT screen ? I would also talk to oztheatre as suggested prior for local option...save a lot on postage and buying local.. Id be trying to get upto 1.3 gain at least....

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Yea definitely, those OZtheatre are looking real good,  1.16 makes a huge fL jump from .9

 

I will be looking into them, Cheers for the links

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2 hours ago, Arny87 said:

Yea definitely, those OZtheatre are looking real good,  1.16 makes a huge fL jump from .9

 

I will be looking into them, Cheers for the links

definitely check the options, oztheatre would be local to you am thinking, hence crazy not to check. we also have two other local screen makers in LP morgan and screentechnics. all great products ! be many overseas options too am sure but not sure how accessible....

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Ive looked into screen Technics, they have perforated and Woven though the are around the .9 gain mark which is alittle low for me

being 1.16 on the OZ theatre, thats made me pretty happy

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Class a audio in Mt Waverley have Visualax woven AT screens claiming 1.1 gain and a 130” is only $650.00.  I have ordered a custom 135” that is due to land Late Feb. From the research I’ve done I would definitely go woven over perforated. 

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please post results. being a budget screen past posts have indicated value for money. but never read any from a A/T buyer at those prices.

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20 hours ago, Mick08 said:

Class a audio in Mt Waverley have Visualax woven AT screens claiming 1.1 gain and a 130” is only $650.00.  I have ordered a custom 135” that is due to land Late Feb. From the research I’ve done I would definitely go woven over perforated. 

I see Visualax official site list 0.95 gain for all their AT screens. (Perforated and Woven).  Only normal matt white screens are having 1.1 gain. There is no mention of model number so it is hard to say if their printed information is wrong. 

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Just checked out the Visualax site myself. I would be going off their specs that does suggest .95 gain rather than Class a audios.  Gains not an issue for me but is for the original post, so thanks for clarifying 

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On 26/01/2020 at 2:44 PM, Mick08 said:

Class a audio in Mt Waverley have Visualax woven AT screens claiming 1.1 gain and a 130” is only $650.00.  I have ordered a custom 135” that is due to land Late Feb. From the research I’ve done I would definitely go woven over perforated. 

would love to hear your feedback once you have your screen set up. I am interested in the 130" Visualax AT screen so any user experience is appreciated.

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For sure, no problem,  hopefully its not too far off. Class a audio sell some high end gear so I'm not doubting its quality. It's a lot cheaper than other well known brands so I can see why some would have doubts

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