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gibbo9000

Kii Audio Owners and Discussion Thread

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12 minutes ago, gibbo9000 said:

Welcome to the Kii club.  Hope you enjoy them as much as I / we do!!

Thank you for the welcome.  The Kii Threes are delivering in spades, with a wide and deep sound stage and clarity and detail. 

16 minutes ago, gibbo9000 said:

The miniDSP SHD Studio can only manage a delay of 30ms max, and sub itself is +/- 10ms adjustment.  The Kii DSP in 'exact' mode eats up 90+ms. 

Good to know the delay limit of the SHD Studio and the Kii latency.

18 minutes ago, gibbo9000 said:

I am applying DL to Kii and Sub below 200Hz.  Sub X-Over is low at 30Hz or 50Hz to avoid damaging the Cardiod distribution of the Kii's above 50 Hz.  So for the cases where I lift the low end of the DL target curves the 'boost' impacts up to 100 - 150 Hz -- so I need DL to lift the bottom part of the Kii's as well.  Beyond that it doesn't mess with the Kii's.

Sorry if I am confusing - I am not using the cross over controls in the sub - leaving that to the miniDSP X-Over /DSP (which applies before DL).  Just using it to manage 30 Hz and 50Hz LR 48db cross over curves between sub and Kii's

Hope that makes sense.

Sorry, it was my misunderstanding about where you set the cross over.  I am still learning about the Kii cardioid distribution of bass.  Do not know enough of the impact on setting the cross over at 30 Hz or 50 Hz . 

 

Once I have completed my Kii setup,  I will do some measurements and look at waterfall diagram and phasing as well.  I am happy with what I am hearing with Kii now, and suspect that it will require not much room correction. What I use remains to be decided.

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37 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Once I have completed my Kii setup,  I will do some measurements and look at waterfall diagram and phasing as well.  I am happy with what I am hearing with Kii now, and suspect that it will require not much room correction. What I use remains to be decided.

Interested to see what you find.  I regularly come back to their 'natural' sound and marvel at how good they are.  Not until these latest changes have I been convinced by the sub addition - and even then I question why given their intrinsic strengths.  I guess a distraction from thinking about BXT's ala @cazzesman's mischievous thought of trading the Covid blocked holiday for them!

Just a couple of behind the scenes captures on the above.  First is the cross-over in miniDSP SHD - Sub in orange and Kii in Grey, and second is all the OpenDRC is doing - the delay (plus DAC as my SHD is digital out).  Third is my 'natural ' curve in Dirac that tracks the Kii's response as set up without sub.   Fourth is an attempt to overlay the 'natural' with my 1.5 and 3db boosted curves below 200 Hz respectively from left to right.  The boosted ones are off Kii plus Sub measurements. I have left the DL corrections out for simplicity.  These yield the output curves in REW as my earlier post. 

Kii recommendation seems to be limit cross over to 30Hz so it remains below their 50Hz cardiod bottom limit, unless you really want to crank up the SPL.  For the SPL path they seem to suggest 50Hz crossover, back the Kii boundary control to -12 or so, and move all that low bass load to sub.  I have found no need or desire to do that - and am lazy so don't like remembering to switch presets in the Kii's.

Corssover.jpg

OpenDRC.jpg

Dirac Natural.jpg

3 Curves.jpg

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1 hour ago, gibbo9000 said:

Kii recommendation seems to be limit cross over to 30Hz so it remains below their 50Hz cardiod bottom limit, unless you really want to crank up the SPL.  For the SPL path they seem to suggest 50Hz crossover, back the Kii boundary control to -12 or so, and move all that low bass load to sub.  I have found no need or desire to do that - and am lazy so don't like remembering to switch presets in the Kii's.

Am interested in where Kii post such recommendations and reading more about the cardioid bass management.  Is there a place where Kii DSP is discussed in detail, explained.   I am exploring using existing Kii DSP capability before doing DSP externally.

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18 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Am interested in where Kii post such recommendations and reading more about the cardioid bass management.  Is there a place where Kii DSP is discussed in detail, explained. 

Not in one place unfortunately - so pieced together from multiple snippets that all seem to add up in the end.  Will see if I can dig out the key pieces I have  . . .

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Posted (edited)

In case some of you don't have it already I have added a copy of the Kii Review Compilation that seems to come with new Kii's these days. Some great feel good reading, and quite a bit of technical detail mixed in.  At the suggestion of @Snoopy8 I have also added it to the first post in this thread so it doesn't get buried

 

Kii_Compilation_2015-2019_V2.pdf

Edited by gibbo9000
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1 hour ago, gibbo9000 said:

In case some of you don't have it already I have added a copy of the Kii Review Compilation that seems to come with new Kii's these days. Some great feel good reading, and quite a bit of technical detail mixed in.  Sorry about the duplicate page 4.  At the suggestion of @Snoopy8 I have also added it to the first post in this thread so it doesn't get buried.

Thank you, most interesting reading which has added to a deeper understanding of the Kii. 

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On 16/02/2020 at 10:23 PM, cazzesman said:

After listening to the system with my previously mentioned setting (80 Hz crossover, Butterworth Filter, etc.) for a few weeks,  I decided to loop back with Kii Audio and ask them as to their recommendations regarding settings, etc. Here their response:

 

“I would definitely stay way below 50Hz with the x-over to the sub, if I had to start I would start at around 30Hz and below. That´s where the Kii THREE has it´s -3dB roll off point, so you could slowly start to fiill the spectrum below that.
If you want extra SPL from the system, you can gradually turn down the Boundary control to -12(dB). If you do, you want the sub to come in below 50Hz roughly.
In any case, if you measure the room response of the Kii THREE only (with your Boundary setting of choice),
the Trinnov measurement should give you a proper indication where the power response drops off and try to fill that with the sub.
Don´t forget to roughly time align sub and Kiis. I would also experiment with using the front wall as a boundary layer for the subwoofer! The benefit being that you can eq the sub response to put out less energy (roughly -6dB) and the subwoofers time aligned (to the Kiis) wave front will also be cardioid of course.”

This post from @cazzesman research on audiophilestyle posted earlier in this thread is another part of the story.

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