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Update went through with Minimum of fuss.   Some OE on my behalf but once I got my act together all good.

 

Saturday with some "Me Time" I will run the Dirac Live through again and see what I get.  

 

Regards Cazzesman

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Had a solid listen this arvo with the new software installed.

 

MY ears tell me..........more gain, a smother presentation at volume and a tighter, more defined bottom end.

 

I have installed Dirac Live 2.0 software and the Minidsp22d plugin software for the DL 2.0 onto my new W10 laptop, so it will be time for some more 'Sweeps' on Saturday.    It will be interesting to see if the new Kii 3 software has had any great effect on the frequency output.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

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With these speakers I notice they can be run 2 ways 

 

1. With the controller, but this seems to be only if you have digital sources only ie you plug your transport or streamer. 

 

2. Or as " traditional" powered speakers ie you connect a preamp to the speakers via the xlr inputs. 

 

Is this correct and if you run them the traditional way , do you lose out on functionality ie dsp, firmware updates , etc ? 

 

Dave 

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44 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

With these speakers I notice they can be run 2 ways

1. With the controller, but this seems to be only if you have digital sources only ie you plug your transport or streamer.

2. Or as " traditional" powered speakers ie you connect a preamp to the speakers via the xlr inputs.

Is this correct and if you run them the traditional way , do you lose out on functionality ie dsp, firmware updates , etc ? 

That is correct on the wiring.  Note the XLR inputs can be set to Analogue or Digital.  Controller adds additional digital inputs, acts as volume, and makes all the configuration much easier.  Analogue inputs go through A/D and into same DSP / amplifier path as digital signals, so no functionality lost.  That is core to maintaining the cardiod distribution and other smarts fundamental to the systems distinctiveness.

Haven't run them without Controller (PMG pretty much sell it as standard now).  I sense it leaves volume control to pre-amp / input and would make some of the more sophisticated DSP functions harder to get to (you can adjust Boundary and Contour on speakers, not sure about the latest additions)., but the DSP is still active etc.
 

Edited by gibbo9000

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Just had delivery of the BXT modules on e very hot day here in Vic. I wont be able to install them as we are moving back to NSW in the next week.

 

Rom from Sonic Purity was kind enough to do the update whilst here. I would say they (the Kii 3’s) do sound a little different, perhaps more vocal prominence and larger soundstage if my audio memory serves. It was quite quick and seamless, perhaps around 5-10 minutes (I am not convinced it would have been if I had tried to do it).

 

 

C5894CB2-AC04-4A21-8D0E-EE72FB2BF8E0.jpeg

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14 minutes ago, Ray H said:

Just had delivery of the BXT modules on e very hot day here in Vic

Congratulations!  Love to hear your thoughts on the difference the BXTs make when you have them settled in.

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Excellent! The BXT are on my "to do" list. I hope that they sound as good at your house as they did in the showroom - which is to say amazing!

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19 hours ago, cazzesman said:

Had a solid listen this arvo with the new software installed.

 

MY ears tell me..........more gain, a smother presentation at volume and a tighter, more defined bottom end.

 

I have installed Dirac Live 2.0 software and the Minidsp22d plugin software for the DL 2.0 onto my new W10 laptop, so it will be time for some more 'Sweeps' on Saturday.    It will be interesting to see if the new Kii 3 software has had any great effect on the frequency output.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

I'd agree with that assessment, Cazzesman.

 

I sent an email to Kii Audio asking if they had changed anything to do with the sound and they claimed that they did not. This confuses me as I now have three people claiming that the sound changed in the same way after the upgrade. Whatever the case they still sound amazing.

 

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29 minutes ago, Prince Arnold said:

I'd agree with that assessment, Cazzesman.

 

I sent an email to Kii Audio asking if they had changed anything to do with the sound and they claimed that they did not. This confuses me as I now have three people claiming that the sound changed in the same way after the upgrade. Whatever the case they still sound amazing.

 

Exactly the same comments are made when Devialet firmware is changed. The line from the engineers is they have not done anything to change the sound, yet comments from users categorically say the opposite. Go figure!

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52 minutes ago, Prince Arnold said:

I'd agree with that assessment, Cazzesman.

 

I sent an email to Kii Audio asking if they had changed anything to do with the sound and they claimed that they did not. This confuses me as I now have three people claiming that the sound changed in the same way after the upgrade. Whatever the case they still sound amazing.

 

I'm quite familiar with @Prince Arnold's system and I had a listen this afternoon. To me it sounds like the bass is a bit deeper and tighter than before. Not easy to make a comparison because he had to change some of the EQ settings after the firmware update so it's hard to tell what was caused by the update itself.

In any event, every time I hear these speakers I'm astounded. The clarity, the imaging and the clean clear deep bass - I'd challenge anyone to put together a system of separate components that would sound anywhere near as good for the same price.

 

As for the BXT's @Prince Arnold, you know you need them :)

 

Edited by sir sanders zingmore
typo

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1 hour ago, Prince Arnold said:

The BXT are on my "to do" list. I hope that they sound as good at your house as they did in the showroom - which is to say amazing!

I have been avoiding listening to the BXTs for fear it would stimulate the same reaction the 3's did when I listened to them - that 'must have' type of feeling.
So care to offer a teaser of what the change is?  I am sure it is amazing, just hard to imagine in what way!

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Gibbo with the new Low Pass filter available you can grab those 2 subs from Perth in the For Sale section and set them up with the 3's.

 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/300609-fs-subs-jl-audio-e112-x-2/

 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

 

😛😛

 

Regards Cazzesman

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21 hours ago, gibbo9000 said:

That is correct on the wiring.  Note the XLR inputs can be set to Analogue or Digital.  Controller adds additional digital inputs, acts as volume, and makes all the configuration much easier.  Analogue inputs go through A/D and into same DSP / amplifier path as digital signals, so no functionality lost.  That is core to maintaining the cardiod distribution and other smarts fundamental to the systems distinctiveness.

Haven't run them without Controller (PMG pretty much sell it as standard now).  I sense it leaves volume control to pre-amp / input and would make some of the more sophisticated DSP functions harder to get to (you can adjust Boundary and Contour on speakers, not sure about the latest additions)., but the DSP is still active etc.
 

Oh so you can run them with the controller and also traditionally with a preamp ?,

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31 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

Oh so you can run them with the controller and also traditionally with a preamp ?,

The short answer is yes.  For example, the core of my setup runs digital into Kii Controller (either direct or via miniDSP SHD) but Turntable output goes to XLR on speakers as Analogue.  The speakers are where the main smarts are, the Controller is more of a remote that extends digital inputs and provides volume control (incl remote if you want).  Volume control covers digital and analogue so I don't need a separate pre-amp for Turntable volume in my case.

Alternatively you could set Controller to full volume and run a traditional pre-amp into the XLR connectors.  I thought about that but after some early listening didn't hear any advantage so I took the radical downsize in component approach.

I guess you could run without the Controller at all with the XLR pre-amp inputs.  But further to your initial question, without a Controller you would be limited to the DSP corrections accessible in the speakers (Boundary and Contour), and not the advanced ones in the latest updates.  And you may need to borrow someone's Controller to do firmware updates.

Hope that helps.

Gibbo
 

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1 hour ago, cazzesman said:

Gibbo with the new Low Pass filter available you can grab those 2 subs from Perth in the For Sale section and set them up with the 3's

NIce thought @cazzesman, but I think that may prove terminal for the marriage.  Part of the 'internal'  justification for the Kii's was getting rid of the subs that could not find a position that suitably balanced sound with  WAF - so the tiny foot print of the Kii's needs to stay.  Now the BXT's wouldn't technically violate that would they . . .?

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4 hours ago, gibbo9000 said:

The short answer is yes.  For example, the core of my setup runs digital into Kii Controller (either direct or via miniDSP SHD) but Turntable output goes to XLR on speakers as Analogue.  The speakers are where the main smarts are, the Controller is more of a remote that extends digital inputs and provides volume control (incl remote if you want).  Volume control covers digital and analogue so I don't need a separate pre-amp for Turntable volume in my case.

Alternatively you could set Controller to full volume and run a traditional pre-amp into the XLR connectors.  I thought about that but after some early listening didn't hear any advantage so I took the radical downsize in component approach.

I guess you could run without the Controller at all with the XLR pre-amp inputs.  But further to your initial question, without a Controller you would be limited to the DSP corrections accessible in the speakers (Boundary and Contour), and not the advanced ones in the latest updates.  And you may need to borrow someone's Controller to do firmware updates.

Hope that helps.

Gibbo
 

Thank you for the informative answer  😎😎

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Just noticed that Kii seem to be doing rolling upgrades through the download link.  When I upgraded a couple of weeks ago was DSP: 4.8 and PIC: 3.8.  Now 4.9 and 3.9 respectively.  And Kii Control has gone from 2.3 to 2.4. Haven't found any more notes on updates.

Edited by gibbo9000

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On 31/01/2020 at 1:53 PM, Ray H said:

Just had delivery of the BXT modules on e very hot day here in Vic. I wont be able to install them as we are moving back to NSW in the next week.

 

Rom from Sonic Purity was kind enough to do the update whilst here. I would say they (the Kii 3’s) do sound a little different, perhaps more vocal prominence and larger soundstage if my audio memory serves. It was quite quick and seamless, perhaps around 5-10 minutes (I am not convinced it would have been if I had tried to do it).

 

 

C5894CB2-AC04-4A21-8D0E-EE72FB2BF8E0.jpeg

 

Come on Ray, what's the verdict???????

 

We are all living gratuitously through you and your new BXT's. 🥰

 

Regards Cazzesman

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What I love about the Kii 3's is the coherency they give to the music.  Nomatter how cluttered a tune gets they just make it so understandable.

 

I was smashing out Porcupine Tree - Deadwing - Arriving Somewhere but not Here.   In the middle stanza, where it goes hell for leather, the driving bass line from Edwin and the Harrison drumming are so clear and clean with the Kii's.

 

Love them to bits.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

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1 hour ago, cazzesman said:

 

Come on Ray, what's the verdict???????

 

We are all living gratuitously through you and your new BXT's. 🥰

 

Regards Cazzesman

This moving house business is a process I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy...I will definitely be setting up the BXT’s in the next couple of days, so should have an initial impression soon :)

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Ok, so I finally set up the BXT modules. Some initial thoughts;

 

The BXT is heavy but conveniently has carry handles built into both ends, which is very thoughtful given the 49 kg weight.

 

The connecting plates are very easy to install  and allow a good physical connection.
 

The cables that connect the Kii 3 to the BXT, particularly the rj45 style connectors seem a little short to me, they almost feel like they may break when clicked home, maybe it’s just me, there is no issue with the sound so they are clearly ok.

 

The base plinths slide home in exactly the same way as the Kii three to BXT which is nice.

 

When they were set up after around 45 minutes I was initially shocked at how big they physically look. Even without spikes they are much taller than the pictures led me to believe. I am in a weird shaped medium sized room and they look quite imposing to be honest, discreet they are not.

 

Sound wise, after a quick 20 minute listen the initial thoughts on the sound changes (in order of magnitude IMO) are;

 

Soundstage - they conjure up a significantly larger soundstage than the Kii three alone, height, width and depth are all much larger.

 

Dynamics - The Kii three alone is very good in this respect for its size, but after hearing the combo, it starts to sound a tiny bit dynamically constrained. Together you realise the dynamics become unfettered, almost limitless when the BXT is installed.

 

Bass - much like the dynamics is increased in power. The depth is increased, but more significantly the power and ease in the bass domain is improved markedly as you would expect given the quantity of extra drivers thrown at the low end performance.

 

As I am a person that likes to allocate a number to things. I would say the performance is improved by around 30+ percent, so obviously considering the cost, the law of diminishing returns is at play here as always. I expect after run-in the improvement could be as much as 40 percent.

 

i will report again after I have logged a hundred hours or so.


sorry about the camera orientation on the shots, I always forget to hold the iPad the right way up...


regards,

 

Ray

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Edited by Ray H

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21 hours ago, Ray H said:

they look quite imposing to be honest, discreet they are not.

Great write up Ray and thank you for taking the effort to do it.  30-40% improvement must sound amazing. 

 

I remain afraid that the 'discreet they are not' bit would severely damage the WAF!

 

Gibbo

 

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Thanks Ray.   extremely jealous right about now.

 

Now the Kii’s have the high and low pass filters in the dsp, has anyone tried adding a quality sub or 2 into the mix.

 

I was wondering what a sub would do in freeing up the Kii’s where a crossover was set 60-80.    It appears as if Ray has started to answer that question.    
 

Ray do you know where the Kii 3 version of a crossover kicks in between the 2 units?

 

Does it sound as if the addition of the bxt has freed up and opened up the mid range more?

 

 It is not that the kii’s don’t go low enough as i get 20htz easily in my room, but I was just wondering about the advantages , if any, of taking some of the pressure off them.    Any thoughts Ray and/or others.

 

I like the look of the SVS SB3000 with the new SVS App to tune it.

 

Regards Cazzesman

Edited by cazzesman

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29 minutes ago, cazzesman said:

 

Now the Kii’s have the high and low pass filters in the dsp, has anyone tried adding a quality sub or 2 into the mix.

 

I was wondering what a sub would do in freeing up the Kii’s where a crossover was set 60-80.    It appears as if Ray has started to answer that question.    
 

Ray do you know where the Kii 3 version of a crossover kicks in between the 2 units?

 

Does it sound as if the addition of the bxt has freed up and opened up the mid range more?

 

 It is not that the kii’s don’t go low enough as i get 20htz easily in my room, but I was just wondering about the advantages , if any, of taking some of the pressure off them.    Any thoughts Ray and/or others.

 

I like the look of the SVS SB3000 with the new SVS App to tune it.

Hey cazzesman,

 

With regards the crossover point, great question, I couldn’t find it on the Kii website. And the BXT’s dont come with any significant literature containing specs, I will have a play in the menu of the Control to see if I can find it.

 

Today I “spiked” the speakers, which also made a noticeable improvement. Themidrange does seem significantly better, clearer, bigger and less constrained as I mentioned before. If the vocals are big in the recording they sound notably fuller and scale bigger, in short more realistic to me than the Kii three alone.

 

Yes I agree wrt the Kii three bass, it was one of the key points that followed purchase, the punch and cleanliness for a “stand mount” is frankly mind boggling. But I think the addition of quality subs would certainly help, but I would stress the word “quality” the Kii three bass is so clean that anything not of the same quality would likely detract from the Kii 3 bass IMO.

Edited by Ray H

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Yes I am presuming sealed JL, Rel or SVS would be required.   A Rel 1508 got some terrific reviews for speed recently but around $2700.  
 

I found a website forum where a gent had 2 DIY subs alongside kii 3’s and he crossed over at 200htz.   He said they were designed for bass and not as subs.

 

Regards Cazzesman

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