Kii Audio Owners and Discussion Thread

[gibbo9000 293]

Attention Kii Owners - Sticky Section

Adding a sticky section at the opening of this Owner's Thread thread (that doesn't belong to this post but we wanted to get it up the front).

At the bottom of this post is a PDF of the Kii Review Compilation 2015 - 2019 that comes with more recent Kii deliveries.  Some excellent feel good and technical reading..

Happy reading.

Gibbo

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Now, back to the original post

 

There seem to be a couple of others here, so might as well have an area to share thoughts.

 

Here is my starter.  If anyone else feels like the Kii Controller could do with something to sit on that gives it a little more angle, the stands for Audio Engine 2+ speakers are just the right size.

 

Gibbo

 

 

Kii_Compilation_2015-2019_V2.pdf

Edited June 22, 2020 by gibbo9000
Added an Intro and document

[gibbo9000 293]

Some basic measurements 'in room', no treatments and some real world obstacles.  Listening room is quite large (10m x 5m).  Have found speakers best with just a little toe in, but wide of pointing to centre at listening position.  Both speakers are positioned with side drivers just in front of the wooden cabinet.  With all controls left neutral (so no Boundary adjustments and Contour flat) and using REW with Umik-1 below is what I get as On Axis response, and then in Listen position facing forward.  You can see what each is from the Label in the top left of the Legend at the bottom.  Left has slightly exacerbated bottom end from its 'corner' position, but that is very simply fixed with -4 on left speaker Boundary setting.

Gibbo

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by gibbo9000

[PleasantSounds 450]

A few days ago Kii Audio has finally released the firmware update tool. 

The link has been up and down, but some owners have successfully used it.

Functionally the main differences are the addition of BlueTooth input to the Control and higher volume levels on the speakers. Full list of changes has not been published.

 

For those interested: please keep checking the Support menu on the Kii Audio page - hopefully the link will be available again soon.

 

 

[Ray H 693]

Here are mine.

 

Very happy with them so far. Currently using a CD Transport and a Sony HAP-Z1ES streamer/server. I am pondering whether I need to upgrade the server, it sounds pretty good though, so I am in no rush.

I have not changed much in the settings yet, mainly as I have the BXT’s coming soon and will play with the settings when the system is complete.

 

I have probably listened to mine for around 50 hrs, and they have perhaps become a little smoother, I have been told they do a fairly long soak in (run in) period in the factory, so not sure if they will run in much more.

 

 

[frednork 1,092]

@gibbo9000 Thanks for the plots! can you please tell us what smoothing is applied and just also confirm if it is a sweep or rta. Also if possible could you show the waterfall plot at listening position.

[gibbo9000 293]

5 hours ago, frednork said:

@gibbo9000 Thanks for the plots! can you please tell us what smoothing is applied and just also confirm if it is a sweep or rta. Also if possible could you show the waterfall plot at listening position.

RTA plots using pink noise.  RTA settings: 1/48 Octave and FFT Length 65536.  Measurements over about 40 averages with Mic moved around listening area at ear height.

Didn't look at waterfall.  Have just lent my Mic to a fellow SNA'r to calibrate his home theatre set up, so will take a look when it comes back again.

[wikeeboy 740]

9 hours ago, PleasantSounds said:

A few days ago Kii Audio has finally released the firmware update tool. 

The link has been up and down, but some owners have successfully used it.

Functionally the main differences are the addition of BlueTooth input to the Control and higher volume levels on the speakers. Full list of changes has not been published.

 

For those interested: please keep checking the Support menu on the Kii Audio page - hopefully the link will be available again soon.

 

 

 

Where did you find the detail on what the V2 firmware actually changes? I found the support page, but apart from showing how to do the upgrade is there a doc anywhere explaining changes?

 

Re bluetooth, sorry if its simply self explanatory, but will that mean we can for example bluetooth a tune via bluetooth from your phone? Or lets say i'm looking at something on my laptop and want to pipe the audio through to the kii's i'll be able to do it that way?

 

Thanks for the info!

[PleasantSounds 450]

19 minutes ago, wikeeboy said:

 

Where did you find the detail on what the V2 firmware actually changes? I found the support page, but apart from showing how to do the upgrade is there a doc anywhere explaining changes?

 

Re bluetooth, sorry if its simply self explanatory, but will that mean we can for example bluetooth a tune via bluetooth from your phone? Or lets say i'm looking at something on my laptop and want to pipe the audio through to the kii's i'll be able to do it that way?

 

Thanks for the info!

I was lucky enough to check the page when it was up, so I got the update. 

 

Connecting bluetooth is fairly easy: just turn on scanning for new devices and Kii comes up. Pairing does not require any pin numbers. After that, you can redirect the output from your phone to the Kii control and it will play.

 

If your laptop has bluetooth it should work as well. I have tried foobar2000 and it works fine.

 

[gibbo9000 293]

Looks like it includes a few new filter profiles as well.

Edited December 23, 2019 by gibbo9000

[frednork 1,092]

On 22/12/2019 at 6:48 PM, gibbo9000 said:

RTA plots using pink noise.  RTA settings: 1/48 Octave and FFT Length 65536.  Measurements over about 40 averages with Mic moved around listening area at ear height.

Didn't look at waterfall.  Have just lent my Mic to a fellow SNA'r to calibrate his home theatre set up, so will take a look when it comes back again.

Ok thanks, Dont think RTA's will give you a waterfall. You will need to do a sweep for that.

[cafe67 4,011]

Nice thread, of all the similar style powered dsp speakers, the Kii would my pick having heard them in store. 

[gibbo9000 293]

Just noticed the long awaited Firmware Update is now available at http://kiiaudio.helpdocsonline.com/update-tool

 

Looks pretty straightforward - need to create some time this evening to make it happen.

 

Also looks like they have updated this page with some instructions on the new firmware functionality:  http://kiiaudio.helpdocsonline.com/untitled-4-2

 

Happy upgrading!  Really feels weird upgrading firmware on speakers.

 

Gibbo

 

[cazzesman 2,057]

😀 well they did say January 2020 and they just made it.

 

Happy days.

 

Thanks for the headsup.

 

Regards Cazzesman

[Prince Arnold 51]

Thanks for the heads-up Gibbo. I would never have seen it myself. Fingers crossed it will work!

[Prince Arnold 51]

Boy, I wish I hadn't rushed to update the firmware  - it didn't work and now I can 't use my speakers.  The update process failed and the controller no longer functions properly (although it does ask my to update the system. Very helpful). The updater sends an error log to Kii Audio so hopefully they can help me out.

 

[gibbo9000 293]

17 minutes ago, Prince Arnold said:

The update process failed and the controller no longer functions properly (although it does ask my to update the system. Very helpful)

Ouch - the worst possible outcome.  Sorry to hear that.

 

Have you tried starting the process over again?  That seems to be the recommendation on the install notes.  At what stage did it stop? 

 

I was about to write some notes on my experience.  From memory the Controller seems to show that message after it has been updated (happens first) and before it has been rebooted (install program asks you to remove all wiring to remove power).  After that it set about updating the speakers (at least for mine anyway). 

Hope you get it sorted, or they are responsive if you can't.

[Prince Arnold 51]

Update: They're back!

 

I had to cycle the power for the controller and the speakers and then rerun the update software about 5 time. Eventually it all worked.

[gibbo9000 293]

Putting aside Prince Arnold's unfortunate experience, my update succeeded.  A few notes on how it went.

• I am on Win 10, and the update app loaded quickly and is very simple interface.  USB connection from PC to Controller is all that is needed.
• When you ask update to start it updates the Controller first and, when completed, asks you to reboot it.  For the Controller that involves removing any wiring it can get power from (USB, Network cables to Speakers etc.) so it shuts down, and then plugging back in.
• Then it updates the speakers one at a time, and on each speaker updates the PIC (up to 3.8) and DSP software (up to 4.8) along with restarting them a couple of times (it does this without any user help).
• Whole process took about 10 minutes.

It took about 10 minutes and I would have said pretty slick until Prince Arnold experience (glad to see now sorted).  It did remove the config settings I had in place.  Still sounds great!

A few top line changes:

• Contour is now called Tone Control
• Advanced Settings are now moved under a new Pro Settings menu that has all the advanced functionality described in the documentation
• I haven't tried Bluetooth (and doubt I will)

Hope it goes well for others.

Gibbo

Edited January 28, 2020 by gibbo9000

[wikeeboy 740]

I've been checking every now and then for the firmware update to go live, so thanks to all for the heads up!

 

• Besides the main changes (Bluetooth & Filters), is there any capacity to adjust the volume via bluetooth/iPhone? I find it a little antiquated to use an infrared remote when i've been used to an iPhone app for years with my Devialet. Not meaning to sound snooty but it would be great to have the ability to adjust the volume from anywhere in the house...

[wikeeboy 740]

Has anyone had an issue with their Kii Control where the narrow rubber/grip around the volume dial comes away? I turned the remote gently last night to fire up the speakers and the slim rubber surround simply came away from the dial...

 

[cazzesman 2,057]

Thats not good.   How old was it?

 

Regards Cazzesman

[wikeeboy 740]

I think it's around 18 months old. Very little use and overall in as new condition.

 

It's only minor but i find it majorly annoying as i like all of my gear to be perfect!

 

I emailed Kii several days ago and still no reply.

[Prince Arnold 51]

Update on the new firmware:

 

Kii Audio called me about 2 hours after I sent the error log to them. They were very interested in understanding what led to my difficulties and wanted to use the information to improve their knowledge base. 

 

I also briefly spoke to them regarding the Kii controller - why I don't like it and how much I would like it to be a roon end-point. The man from Kii Audio hinted that they were working on a new controller. Fingers crossed.

 

I was very impressed by the quick response and the time they allocated to me.

 

BTW, has anyone noticed a change in sound after the firmware upgrade (and after reseting all preferences)? 

[wikeeboy 740]

9 hours ago, wikeeboy said:

I think it's around 18 months old. Very little use and overall in as new condition.

 

It's only minor but i find it majorly annoying as i like all of my gear to be perfect!

 

I emailed Kii several days ago and still no reply.

Quick update to the above. received a reply (came through last night) regarding the Kii Control.

 

It seems there were a particular batch of the rubber rings that were faulty, its a known issue. Easily fixed by replacing with a new rubber ring provided by PMG/Kii. Phew, we're all good

 

[PleasantSounds 450]

On 28/01/2020 at 6:39 PM, wikeeboy said:

Has anyone had an issue with their Kii Control where the narrow rubber/grip around the volume dial comes away? I turned the remote gently last night to fire up the speakers and the slim rubber surround simply came away from the dial...

 

 

 

 

Mine has disintegrated in a similar way about 6 months ago. The issue is aparently confined to the early build units (bad supplier chioice) and has been rectified since. PMG used to have some replacement rubber bands, maybe they still do.

 

[cazzesman 2,057]

Update went through with Minimum of fuss.   Some OE on my behalf but once I got my act together all good.

 

Saturday with some "Me Time" I will run the Dirac Live through again and see what I get.  

 

Regards Cazzesman

[cazzesman 2,057]

Had a solid listen this arvo with the new software installed.

 

MY ears tell me..........more gain, a smother presentation at volume and a tighter, more defined bottom end.

 

I have installed Dirac Live 2.0 software and the Minidsp22d plugin software for the DL 2.0 onto my new W10 laptop, so it will be time for some more 'Sweeps' on Saturday.    It will be interesting to see if the new Kii 3 software has had any great effect on the frequency output.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

[cafe67 4,011]

With these speakers I notice they can be run 2 ways 

 

1. With the controller, but this seems to be only if you have digital sources only ie you plug your transport or streamer. 

 

2. Or as " traditional" powered speakers ie you connect a preamp to the speakers via the xlr inputs. 

 

Is this correct and if you run them the traditional way , do you lose out on functionality ie dsp, firmware updates , etc ? 

 

Dave 

[gibbo9000 293]

44 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

With these speakers I notice they can be run 2 ways

1. With the controller, but this seems to be only if you have digital sources only ie you plug your transport or streamer.

2. Or as " traditional" powered speakers ie you connect a preamp to the speakers via the xlr inputs.

Is this correct and if you run them the traditional way , do you lose out on functionality ie dsp, firmware updates , etc ? 

That is correct on the wiring.  Note the XLR inputs can be set to Analogue or Digital.  Controller adds additional digital inputs, acts as volume, and makes all the configuration much easier.  Analogue inputs go through A/D and into same DSP / amplifier path as digital signals, so no functionality lost.  That is core to maintaining the cardiod distribution and other smarts fundamental to the systems distinctiveness.

Haven't run them without Controller (PMG pretty much sell it as standard now).  I sense it leaves volume control to pre-amp / input and would make some of the more sophisticated DSP functions harder to get to (you can adjust Boundary and Contour on speakers, not sure about the latest additions)., but the DSP is still active etc.
 

Edited January 30, 2020 by gibbo9000

[Ray H 693]

Just had delivery of the BXT modules on e very hot day here in Vic. I wont be able to install them as we are moving back to NSW in the next week.

 

Rom from Sonic Purity was kind enough to do the update whilst here. I would say they (the Kii 3’s) do sound a little different, perhaps more vocal prominence and larger soundstage if my audio memory serves. It was quite quick and seamless, perhaps around 5-10 minutes (I am not convinced it would have been if I had tried to do it).

 

 

[gibbo9000 293]

14 minutes ago, Ray H said:

Just had delivery of the BXT modules on e very hot day here in Vic

Congratulations!  Love to hear your thoughts on the difference the BXTs make when you have them settled in.

[Prince Arnold 51]

Excellent! The BXT are on my "to do" list. I hope that they sound as good at your house as they did in the showroom - which is to say amazing!

[Prince Arnold 51]

19 hours ago, cazzesman said:

Had a solid listen this arvo with the new software installed.

 

MY ears tell me..........more gain, a smother presentation at volume and a tighter, more defined bottom end.

 

I have installed Dirac Live 2.0 software and the Minidsp22d plugin software for the DL 2.0 onto my new W10 laptop, so it will be time for some more 'Sweeps' on Saturday.    It will be interesting to see if the new Kii 3 software has had any great effect on the frequency output.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

I'd agree with that assessment, Cazzesman.

 

I sent an email to Kii Audio asking if they had changed anything to do with the sound and they claimed that they did not. This confuses me as I now have three people claiming that the sound changed in the same way after the upgrade. Whatever the case they still sound amazing.

 

[wikeeboy 740]

29 minutes ago, Prince Arnold said:

I'd agree with that assessment, Cazzesman.

 

I sent an email to Kii Audio asking if they had changed anything to do with the sound and they claimed that they did not. This confuses me as I now have three people claiming that the sound changed in the same way after the upgrade. Whatever the case they still sound amazing.

 

Exactly the same comments are made when Devialet firmware is changed. The line from the engineers is they have not done anything to change the sound, yet comments from users categorically say the opposite. Go figure!

[sir sanders zingmore 12,166]

52 minutes ago, Prince Arnold said:

I'd agree with that assessment, Cazzesman.

 

I sent an email to Kii Audio asking if they had changed anything to do with the sound and they claimed that they did not. This confuses me as I now have three people claiming that the sound changed in the same way after the upgrade. Whatever the case they still sound amazing.

 

I'm quite familiar with @Prince Arnold's system and I had a listen this afternoon. To me it sounds like the bass is a bit deeper and tighter than before. Not easy to make a comparison because he had to change some of the EQ settings after the firmware update so it's hard to tell what was caused by the update itself.

In any event, every time I hear these speakers I'm astounded. The clarity, the imaging and the clean clear deep bass - I'd challenge anyone to put together a system of separate components that would sound anywhere near as good for the same price.

 

As for the BXT's @Prince Arnold, you know you need them

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by sir sanders zingmore
typo

[gibbo9000 293]

1 hour ago, Prince Arnold said:

The BXT are on my "to do" list. I hope that they sound as good at your house as they did in the showroom - which is to say amazing!

I have been avoiding listening to the BXTs for fear it would stimulate the same reaction the 3's did when I listened to them - that 'must have' type of feeling.
So care to offer a teaser of what the change is?  I am sure it is amazing, just hard to imagine in what way!

[cazzesman 2,057]

Gibbo with the new Low Pass filter available you can grab those 2 subs from Perth in the For Sale section and set them up with the 3's.

 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/300609-fs-subs-jl-audio-e112-x-2/

 

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

 

😛😛

 

Regards Cazzesman

[cafe67 4,011]

21 hours ago, gibbo9000 said:

That is correct on the wiring.  Note the XLR inputs can be set to Analogue or Digital.  Controller adds additional digital inputs, acts as volume, and makes all the configuration much easier.  Analogue inputs go through A/D and into same DSP / amplifier path as digital signals, so no functionality lost.  That is core to maintaining the cardiod distribution and other smarts fundamental to the systems distinctiveness.

Haven't run them without Controller (PMG pretty much sell it as standard now).  I sense it leaves volume control to pre-amp / input and would make some of the more sophisticated DSP functions harder to get to (you can adjust Boundary and Contour on speakers, not sure about the latest additions)., but the DSP is still active etc.
 

Oh so you can run them with the controller and also traditionally with a preamp ?,

[gibbo9000 293]

31 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

Oh so you can run them with the controller and also traditionally with a preamp ?,

The short answer is yes.  For example, the core of my setup runs digital into Kii Controller (either direct or via miniDSP SHD) but Turntable output goes to XLR on speakers as Analogue.  The speakers are where the main smarts are, the Controller is more of a remote that extends digital inputs and provides volume control (incl remote if you want).  Volume control covers digital and analogue so I don't need a separate pre-amp for Turntable volume in my case.

Alternatively you could set Controller to full volume and run a traditional pre-amp into the XLR connectors.  I thought about that but after some early listening didn't hear any advantage so I took the radical downsize in component approach.

I guess you could run without the Controller at all with the XLR pre-amp inputs.  But further to your initial question, without a Controller you would be limited to the DSP corrections accessible in the speakers (Boundary and Contour), and not the advanced ones in the latest updates.  And you may need to borrow someone's Controller to do firmware updates.

Hope that helps.

Gibbo
 

[gibbo9000 293]

1 hour ago, cazzesman said:

Gibbo with the new Low Pass filter available you can grab those 2 subs from Perth in the For Sale section and set them up with the 3's

NIce thought @cazzesman, but I think that may prove terminal for the marriage.  Part of the 'internal'  justification for the Kii's was getting rid of the subs that could not find a position that suitably balanced sound with  WAF - so the tiny foot print of the Kii's needs to stay.  Now the BXT's wouldn't technically violate that would they . . .?