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Old news, but I only found out today...

...since Windows 8, shutting down and turning on a Windows PC does not achieve the same outcome as a Restart.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/what-is-the-difference-between-restart-and-shut/d512fa31-3bce-49bc-bada-11eda28e3b7f

 

If you're trying to clear up little issues a Restart will clear the RAM, whereas a Shutdown writes the RAM to disk and reloads it on start up...

...I find I restart my work Windows 10 laptop (Surface Pro) nearly daily, but my music laptop (also Windows 10)  typically gets turned on for a music session then turned off - I'll commence adding some restarts into that mix...or turn off "Fast Start" (instructions are in the link)

 

cheers

Mike

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Old news, but I only found out today... ...since Windows 8, shutting down and turning on a Windows PC does not achieve the same outcome as a Restart. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind

Welcome to Windows 10.    

It may not be the kernel itself, but there is still a lot of bloat in the Windows environment generally.  It is still true the linux will run better with lesser harder  requirements.  I do, however, a

All those many many lucky people who never updated, never moved away from W7 which is the best Bill Gates ever achieved for the computer illiterate.

How lucky they are. Even if it's no longer supported, every other dumb arse like me  who still has it is grinning like a Cheshire Cat.

 

Me? I was seduced into the free upgrade and I've regretted it ever since.

 

W10 is someone's revenge on everyone.

 

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20 minutes ago, Luc said:

All those many many lucky people who never updated, never moved away from W7 which is the best Bill Gates ever achieved for the computer illiterate.

How lucky they are. Even if it's no longer supported, every other dumb arse like me  who still has it is grinning like a Cheshire Cat.

 

Me? I was seduced into the free upgrade and I've regretted it ever since.

 

W10 is someone's revenge on everyone.

 

maybe not many hackers are focusing on W7 vulnerabilities anymore - and I'm not saying W7 is more or less vulnerable than W10 - but if a device is connected to the internet, my preference is to have a supported operating system with up to date patches.

 

Some computer literate users may still remain on W7 for their own reasons - I would not recommend this for computer illiterate users if their devices are connected to the interweb.

 

cheers

Mike

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Personally I'd love to switch to Linux or BSD though have always found it breaks itself if you leave automatic updates on... The Linux community are not terribly helpful to noobs.

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22 minutes ago, MattyW said:

The Linux community are not terribly helpful to noobs.

Depends on the distro you choose I guess.   Many of them are supported by the most helpful forums I have ever encountered.

 

23 minutes ago, MattyW said:

Personally I'd love to switch to Linux or BSD though have always found it breaks itself if you leave automatic updates on...

As does Windows - VERY regularly.  I haven't had a problem with a Linux update, but I can easily believe it happens from time to time.  Good news is,  linux is so much quicker easier to reinstall than Windows.

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I give Linux a try every now and then just to see if it's ready.... Not yet always seems to be the answer. One of these days though.

 

I've strangely never had an issue with Windows 10. I intensely dislike the multitude locations for settings and start menu though for me the performance and stability has been excellent. Linux has always had superior sound quality though.

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13 minutes ago, MattyW said:

I give Linux a try every now and then just to see if it's ready.... Not yet always seems to be the answer. One of these days though.

If you haven't already, next time give Linux Mint a try.  It is very slick these days and has a high wife acceptance factor.

 

15 minutes ago, MattyW said:

I've strangely never had an issue with Windows 10.

Windows 10 updates have broken my wife's laptop twice - to the point where it would not power on.  Everything has it's problems at times.

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On 10/01/2020 at 8:10 PM, Luc said:

All those many many lucky people who never updated, never moved away from W7 which is the best Bill Gates ever achieved for the computer illiterate.

How lucky they are. Even if it's no longer supported, every other dumb arse like me  who still has it is grinning like a Cheshire Cat.

 

Me? I was seduced into the free upgrade and I've regretted it ever since.

 

W10 is someone's revenge on everyone.

 

Strange i have very few issues with Win10 from the day I first got it. Only done 1 clean re install (probably a virus issue)
As an ex IT person I have always stood by the mantra if it does what you need, don't upgrade.
New versions of windows typically need new hardware, new firmware, new drivers and that is where Windows lets people down. 
 

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On 10/01/2020 at 8:40 PM, Luc said:

W10 is someone's revenge on everyone.

Never a truer word spoken.

 

As someone who has very little understanding of the various iterations of Windows all that I can say is, after getting on well with Windows 7 I found the change to 10 a major headache. 7 was, after using the previous ten years worth of Windows, pretty intuitive for a know-nothing like me. 10 was a PITA from day one for me. I have now got used to it. Sort of.

I also have to say that I have absolutely no idea what anyone is saying when they talk about "using" 10, nor understood what was upgraded when each new version came out. How do you use Windows, in the sense of an activity? In my ignorance I see it as  just a backdrop upon which the programmes that you use are contained within. I have much doubt that I am even making sense to the computer literate and am simply proving my statement that starts this paragraph.

I'll shut up now.

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15 minutes ago, JukKluk2 said:

In my ignorance I see it as  just a backdrop upon which the programmes that you use are contained within.

That's a fair enough concept as a user.   However,   it isn't a passive backdrop.  It's very active and provides many many services to you and the programs you run.  It handles creating the display you see, accessing your disk drives, accessing your network, playing music and tonnes of other stuff.

 

So, you are using Windows, every time you turn on the computer and interact with it.

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1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

That's a fair enough concept as a user.   However,   it isn't a passive backdrop.  It's very active and provides many many services to you and the programs you run.  It handles creating the display you see, accessing your disk drives, accessing your network, playing music and tonnes of other stuff.

 

So, you are using Windows, every time you turn on the computer and interact with it.

I suppose it's the same as most people who drive cars, you know  that you put the fuel in at one end and, after turning the key, you can go places without any regard to each of the little steps that makes up the journey as a whole. Computers and cars share an equal level of understanding in my mind.

Thank you @aussievintage for the elucidation.

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Guest Muon N'

I turned on my Win 7 PC today and was welcomed with this screen.

 

1200-476890583-the-finger-hand-gestures.jpg.f4bf39a7c699cff45edf8c28313a987a.jpg

 

Well, not really, just a blurb about no more support :laugh:

 

Ended today it seems, so I got 4 important updates and will get no more I think.

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An OS is merely a platform to launch applications. If I didn't play the occasional game I could probably make the move off it.

 

The Windows 10 interface is only an upgrade compared to 8. Windows 7 interface remains the best they ever came up with. Interface and useability complaints aside I've found the performance and reliability of 10 to be the best I've experienced to date.

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34 minutes ago, MattyW said:

An OS is merely a platform to launch applications. If I didn't play the occasional game I could probably make the move off it.

 

The Windows 10 interface is only an upgrade compared to 8. Windows 7 interface remains the best they ever came up with. Interface and useability complaints aside I've found the performance and reliability of 10 to be the best I've experienced to date.

Absolutely, Windows 7 was king. An honorable mention goes to Windows XP. I love me that "classic" start bar.

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I think of what I run as programs, I can't help but think of virtual pets that you need to get up at 3am to feed less they expire when  'apps' or 'applications' are mentioned :D

 

I can't help but think of apps as simple code for some reason.

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45 minutes ago, kelossus said:

Absolutely, Windows 7 was king. An honorable mention goes to Windows XP. I love me that "classic" start bar.

I actually get all nostalgic over XP.... And 98SE..... And MS-DOS 6.22 upgrade.... MS-DOS 5.0 somewhat too

Edited by MattyW
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13 minutes ago, MattyW said:

I actually get all nostalgic over XP.... And 98SE..... And MS-DOS 6.22 upgrade.... MS-DOS 5.0 somewhat too

Really?

 

I completely forgot them after I installed 7.

 

Trying to forget 10 now xD

 

I won't even mention ME or Vista :fear: vanilla 98 sucked, and the first couple of versions of 95 sucked pretty hard, MS-DOS is well before my time although you needed a little of it for working with 95/98.

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I have stayed on Win 8.1 Pro, using the old Classic interface. Got the useful GWX tool which prevented the sneaky automatic Win 10 install. I am a Luddite! Will eventually have to regrade (not 'up') I suppose.

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8 hours ago, Muon N' said:

Really?

 

I completely forgot them after I installed 7.

 

Trying to forget 10 now xD

 

I won't even mention ME or Vista :fear: vanilla 98 sucked, and the first couple of versions of 95 sucked pretty hard, MS-DOS is well before my time although you needed a little of it for working with 95/98.

Oh yeah,  had 3 separate boot discs with minimal drivers and different memory optimizations in order to run various games.  Some needed more base memory,  others more extended etc. Some of my all time favorite games were on DOS also and this continued on into Windows 98....

 

As time has gone on games have become more realistic and harder to play, and I've simply not enjoyed them as much. One exception though was the latest installment of DOOM. Just like playing in the old days except with better graphics etc.

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9 hours ago, Muon N' said:

I think of what I run as programs, I can't help but think of virtual pets that you need to get up at 3am to feed less they expire when  'apps' or 'applications' are mentioned :D

 

I can't help but think of apps as simple code for some reason.

Back in the olden days, when the Amiga 500 was alive, they used to call any of the productivity software (graphics, audio, video, programming and office etc.) "Applications", while smaller programs, for specific purposes were called Utilities.

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31 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

Back in the olden days, when the Amiga 500 was alive, they used to call any of the productivity software (graphics, audio, video, programming and office etc.) "Applications", while smaller programs, for specific purposes were called Utilities.

DOS and early Windows days too. I've never really stopped thinking of them in these terms.

 

Kind of like what is now called a folder was previously in DOS and Win9x as a Directory. I wasn't until the last 5 years or so that I adjusted to calling then folders. 

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Threads like this, sadly end up as being dead end streets - historical tacit approval for proprietary software, ie W7 vs W10 - we prefer W7 as example. 

 

Did W7 give you ability to, run the program , to study and change the program in source code form, to redistribute exact copies, and to distribute modified versions. ? No has to be the answer.  Rather a proper look at W7 would reveal that it gave you, (to name a few), Invasion of Privacy, it blocked document formats being standardised, it enforced collusion with media companies, and enabled remote users to take over peoples computers, which is still happening to Windows products today  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/microsoft-issues-urgent-windows-security-fix-after-nsa-tip-off/11869396

 

The emphasis should be to step out of the dead end street and ideally immediately gravitate instead to free software  https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html      finding you now have freedom is real cause for celebration. 

 

Many such distributions can be found here   https://distrowatch.com     As many have indicated Linux Mint is very user friendly and is a good distribution to commence with.   https://www.linuxmint.com/

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, doogie44 said:

Is this kind of computer standard of (non)-function the new normal??

Unfortunately yes.... Windows lost direction when Bill Gates ret go of the reins. Every interface from 8 has been rubbish. The interface in MS Office has been rubbish since the ribbon was introduced. Have to Google where to find basic functions now.

 

Admittedly they're more profitable than ever due to a focus on cloud computing,  though for the average user Microsoft has made rubbish product for some time now.

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31 minutes ago, stereo coffee said:

Threads like this, sadly end up as being dead end streets - historical tacit approval for proprietary software, ie W7 vs W10 - we prefer W7 as example. 

 

Did W7 give you ability to, run the program , to study and change the program in source code form, to redistribute exact copies, and to distribute modified versions. ? No has to be the answer.  Rather a proper look at W7 would reveal that it gave you, (to name a few), Invasion of Privacy, it blocked document formats being standardised, it enforced collusion with media companies, and enabled remote users to take over peoples computers, which is still happening to Windows products today  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/microsoft-issues-urgent-windows-security-fix-after-nsa-tip-off/11869396

 

The emphasis should be to step out of the dead end street and ideally immediately gravitate instead to free software  https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html      finding you now have freedom is real cause for celebration. 

 

Many such distributions can be found here   https://distrowatch.com     As many have indicated Linux Mint is very user friendly and is a good distribution to commence with.   https://www.linuxmint.com/

 

 

 

 

 

Best post this year !!   People are getting far to used to mediocrity and lack of privacy etc etc

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1 hour ago, stereo coffee said:

Threads like this, sadly end up as being dead end streets - historical tacit approval for proprietary software, ie W7 vs W10 - we prefer W7 as example. 

 

Did W7 give you ability to, run the program , to study and change the program in source code form, to redistribute exact copies, and to distribute modified versions. ? No has to be the answer.  Rather a proper look at W7 would reveal that it gave you, (to name a few), Invasion of Privacy, it blocked document formats being standardised, it enforced collusion with media companies, and enabled remote users to take over peoples computers, which is still happening to Windows products today  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/microsoft-issues-urgent-windows-security-fix-after-nsa-tip-off/11869396

 

The emphasis should be to step out of the dead end street and ideally immediately gravitate instead to free software  https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html      finding you now have freedom is real cause for celebration. 

 

Many such distributions can be found here   https://distrowatch.com     As many have indicated Linux Mint is very user friendly and is a good distribution to commence with.   https://www.linuxmint.com/

 

 

 

 

 

Whilst I barely comprehend the nuts and bolts of what you're talking about, I can see a similarity between audio and computers. In both worlds you have a band of aficionados who are more knowledgeable than the rest of the population, whose enthusiasm is looked upon as "weird" by that same population and who sit back and wonder why the rest of the world appear unable to comprehend what they are trying to say. Personally, I "get" audio. Computers, I don't. Wish I did, but every time I try to get more into them my eyes eventually glaze over and I find myself writing playlists in my head. And then I fire up my system and all is right with the world.

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37 minutes ago, JukKluk2 said:

Whilst I barely comprehend the nuts and bolts of what you're talking about, I can see a similarity between audio and computers. In both worlds you have a band of aficionados who are more knowledgeable than the rest of the population, whose enthusiasm is looked upon as "weird" by that same population and who sit back and wonder why the rest of the world appear unable to comprehend what they are trying to say. Personally, I "get" audio. Computers, I don't. Wish I did, but every time I try to get more into them my eyes eventually glaze over and I find myself writing playlists in my head. And then I fire up my system and all is right with the world.

That's an interesting comparison, because the reaches of proprietary software with similar needs to take away your freedom,and to a degree replace that with controlling and observing you, very sadly also extend to audio equipment.

 

as an example of those that do this.  https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanbaptiste/2019/08/28/apple-apologizes-for-eavesdropping-on-customers-keeping-siri-recordings-without-permission/

 

On a brighter note, there are many who steadfastly refuse to cross the customer relationship boundary by on-selling your information etc , and can be relied on to fully respect your privacy. 

 

The DIY community on this forum and many other forums, are in some ways the left of audio politics, as well as the majority of manufacturers with good ethics. It's just a few, like the example above that lean to the right, with ulterior motives, we need to be cautious of when we choose hifi products.  

Edited by stereo coffee
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1 hour ago, stereo coffee said:

 very sadly also extend to audio equipment.

It wasn't that aspect that I was making comparisons with, it's the small, elite cognoscenti comparison that I had in mind.

I think that I already made clear that my knowledge of computers (and by inference the software and its extensions) is so shallow that not even a meniscus can form.

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I think it's passing strange that an ignoramus can work an analogue hi-fi system (I am the living proof) but few 'ordinary' people have the slightest idea how to sort out a digital foul-up, in my opinion. Even if they do, they are left pondering the play of the digital gods more often than not--all the way from operating systems down to networks and bits.

 

Not that one is getting bitter and twisted in one's old age, No! One merely observes...

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35 minutes ago, doogie44 said:

I think it's passing strange that an ignoramus can work an analogue hi-fi system (I am the living proof) but few 'ordinary' people have the slightest idea how to sort out a digital foul-up, in my opinion. Even if they do, they are left pondering the play of the digital gods more often than not--all the way from operating systems down to networks and bits.

 

Not that one is getting bitter and twisted in one's old age, No! One merely observes...

The modern world gets much more complicated every year.  The education system is struggling with the depth, and breadth, of the education required.  Year 10 was once a "good education", now it is more acceptably Year 12 - and they cram more into it.     Specialisation has to start much earlier in education, or else the ordinary student cannot cope.

 

My opinion is that modern design spends too much time on adding features and functionality, and not enough on making the technology more robust, self-healing,  and able to be treated as a black-box, where you do not need to understand what goes on inside.

 

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Guest Muon N'

Win 7 on my 7 year old low end PC...........27 seconds :ninja:

 

Edit: Pentium G3450, no 'i' anything xD

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On 15/01/2020 at 4:53 PM, JukKluk2 said:

 

Never a truer word spoken.

 

As someone who has very little understanding of the various iterations of Windows all that I can say is, after getting on well with Windows 7 I found the change to 10 a major headache. 7 was, after using the previous ten years worth of Windows, pretty intuitive for a know-nothing like me. 10 was a PITA from day one for me. I have now got used to it. Sort of.

I also have to say that I have absolutely no idea what anyone is saying when they talk about "using" 10, nor understood what was upgraded when each new version came out. How do you use Windows, in the sense of an activity? In my ignorance I see it as  just a backdrop upon which the programmes that you use are contained within. I have much doubt that I am even making sense to the computer literate and am simply proving my statement that starts this paragraph.

I'll shut up now.

 

On the contrary, that makes perfect sense. The operating system should be the enabler that lets you do the things that you want to do without getting in the way. Its the right way to think about it.

 

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