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sir sanders zingmore

Sonos to sue google

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2 minutes ago, blybo said:

Admittedly most soundbars are pretty much similar.

Market research revealed this styling and aesthetic and form factor to be popular <- the defendant's argument.

For the record, PSB made soundbars long before Sonos started.

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Just now, sir sanders zingmore said:

I don't think the google lawsuit has anything to do with æsthetics 

We're referring to the simultaneous conversation here about HEOS/Bluesound/Sonos.

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1 minute ago, Marc said:

Market research revealed this styling and aesthetic and form factor to be popular <- the defendant's argument.

For the record, PSB made soundbars long before Sonos started.

But Bluesound are trying to say they are not competitors. Seriously that's a pretty long bow to take. Virtually every product Bluesound has released already had a Sonos equivalent.

 

Even though I own Sonos gear I'm only on their side as Bluesound obviously had Sonos in their sites when creating the product mix. That's fine if patents haven't been breached but clearly not right if they have.

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1 hour ago, blybo said:

But Bluesound are trying to say they are not competitors. Seriously that's a pretty long bow to take. Virtually every product Bluesound has released already had a Sonos equivalent.

 

Even though I own Sonos gear I'm only on their side as Bluesound obviously had Sonos in their sites when creating the product mix. That's fine if patents haven't been breached but clearly not right if they have.

I think this statement is grossly exaggerated. Had this been the case, they would have marketed and priced their product far more aggressively. 

 

If anything, they have created a premium alternative that is not at all targeted to the market Sonos is interested in. 

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Just now, thathifiguy said:

I think this statement is grossly exaggerated. Had this been the case, they would have marketed and priced their product far more aggressively. 

 

If anything, they have created a premium alternative that is not at all targeted to the market Sonos is interested in. 

Business modelling 101 is to have a unique selling point. Some like Amazon and Google that "USP" is a cheaper price. For Bluesound it is Hi-res capability. Doesn't mean they aren't competitors just because the price is a few hundred different. I don't see how anybody could objectively look at the 2 brands product line ups and say 1 wasn't knocking off the others concept.

 

They both have 3 similarly sized powered speakers, a streamer, a streamer with amp, a sound bar and a sub. The Vault is about the only Bluesound product without a Sonos equivalent.

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1 hour ago, Marc said:

For the record, PSB made soundbars long before Sonos started.

Sonos Soundbar was actually quite late in their range. Yamaha was another one who were early with Soundbars. Sonos came out just after KISS and turned the Living Media Smart home business upside down. It was unbelievable. All you needed was a power socket in another room. Forget cables. Too far between units? Throw in a bridge. unbelievable.

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29 minutes ago, blybo said:

Business modelling 101 is to have a unique selling point. Some like Amazon and Google that "USP" is a cheaper price. For Bluesound it is Hi-res capability. Doesn't mean they aren't competitors just because the price is a few hundred different. I don't see how anybody could objectively look at the 2 brands product line ups and say 1 wasn't knocking off the others concept.

 

They both have 3 similarly sized powered speakers, a streamer, a streamer with amp, a sound bar and a sub. The Vault is about the only Bluesound product without a Sonos equivalent.

By this logic Neil, whomever created the first audio amplifier/CD Player/Turntable could sue the manufacturer of every one that followed. What a world that would be.

 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, thathifiguy said:

By this logic Neil, whomever created the first audio amplifier/CD Player/Turntable could sue the manufacturer of every one that followed. What a world that would be.

 

The claim is multi faceted. This part of the lawsuit is about Bluesound trying to claim they are not competitors of Sonos. All I'm saying is that the product mix of both brands shows they are obviously competitors, albeit as differing price points. Sonos are not suggesting that nobody can create similar products, but just don't try and use Sonos' patent protected IP to do it without permission.

 

Weren't Phillips and Sony part of multi brand co-operation to create the CD and players? Everybody else had to pay royalties to build their own players. I'm sure some other Hi-Fi designs have patents too.

 

 

Edited by blybo

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18 minutes ago, thathifiguy said:

By this logic Neil, whomever created the first audio amplifier/CD Player/Turntable could sue the manufacturer of every one that followed. What a world that would be.

 

I agree with @blybo, look at the base ranges of Sonos, Bluesound and Heos, they are almost identical and it started with Sonos. The Johny come lately manufacturers didn't do this by chance, each product was to be in direct competition with the Sonos offering regardless of price. (Probably a bit OT given the OP started with the Google lawsuit).

 

Small speaker

Medium speak

Large speaker

Soundbar

Subwoofer

Amplifier

Source

 

That said the sweet spot is nailed by Sonos which is still the market leader between the three above. They have got the quality and price point right for people that want whole house music and want to still try and do justice to the music, which isn't Google or Amazons motivation at all or the key reason they want their products in your home. They are listening................ always listening!

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7 hours ago, Fro-Daddy said:

What sort of phone do you have?

A Samsung which always lives in my pocket when not in use. Muffled sonics I'm sure. However, the phone is a very good point indeed. We can turn our phones off so we can't use them, that doesn't mean the manufacturers aren't using them. How many phones allow you to remove the battery without major surgery? Simply, they can't really be turned off, nor will removing the SIM disconnect them from the networks. I fitted a domestic SIM when visiting the US, and now I have my Telstra SIM back in, I receive advertising closely related to particular places I visited. Go figure.

 

Anyway, back OT.

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20 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

That said the sweet spot is nailed by Sonos which is still the market leader between the three above.

Why I think the google lawsuit is far more relevant is that it makes very little difference who is the leader amongst Sonos, heos and bluesound. Google could crush the lot of them. 

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Guest Muon N'

Only need to make a small change to circumvent a patent.

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13 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

Why I think the google lawsuit is far more relevant is that it makes very little difference who is the leader amongst Sonos, heos and bluesound. Google could crush the lot of them. 

Yes, Google has a way of making enemies out of companies that were once allies. Apple loved Google search and Maps as part of their iPhones app suite before Google brought Android to try and crush them. Has Google ever invented anything that hasn't been done before? Maybe a new way to search but apart from that they seem to just copy successful businesses and then try and crush them with their barrows full of tax free dollars, no respect there.

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Posted (edited)

As well as the New York Times article, there is also a good article to be found at ars technica. The comments on that article do cover some of the finer points of US patent law and software coding.

 

tl;dr: as well as being dirty with Google because Sonos showed their kit to Google collegially before Google suddenly entered the market as a competitor, the method used by Sonos engineers to interrogate the Google kernel likely would not have worked if Sonos's work was not being emulated.

 

For the courts to decide.

Edited by ThirdDrawerDown
Spelling

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17 hours ago, t_mike said:

Why anyone would willingly put an internet enabled tap in their house has me bugged.

stoopid...people are stupid

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You can't patent an idea/concept, only the specific iteration of it. E.g.--while Apple really conceived the phone/music player, there are now many "copies" of the idea.

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1 hour ago, GregWormald said:

You can't patent an idea/concept, only the specific iteration of it. E.g.--while Apple really conceived the phone/music player, there are now many "copies" of the idea.

See that's what I thought.  So unless Google used the same hardware and code as Sonos -where's the case?

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17 hours ago, aussievintage said:

See that's what I thought.  So unless Google used the same hardware and code as Sonos -where's the case?

They have many patients, the key stuff relates to connecting several speakers at the same time and getting the sync right, even a fraction of second delay and you get a horrible echo effect. It hard to do and is the reason Sonos we’re the only game in town for some time. 
 

Reportedly when Apple released the home pod this was one of the significant challenges that held up release date

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2 minutes ago, Chill3 said:

They have many patients, the key stuff relates to connecting several speakers at the same time and getting the sync right, even a fraction of second delay and you get a horrible echo effect. It hard to do and is the reason Sonos we’re the only game in town for some time. 
 

Reportedly when Apple released the home pod this was one of the significant challenges that held up release date

 

But if they didn't copy the code or the hardware,  and found their own tech to get around the problems, I don't see how it matters. 

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24 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

But if they didn't copy the code or the hardware,  and found their own tech to get around the problems, I don't see how it matters. 

Apple are not the one's being sued. Obviously Sonos believe Google are using their technology in breach of several patents or they would not go to the massive expense of suing a global giant.

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26 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

But if they didn't copy the code or the hardware,  and found their own tech to get around the problems, I don't see how it matters. 

In the US patients can cover a detailed technical ideas, not restricted to hate ware, it’s a massive industry, there are literally companies worth hundreds of millions that have never produced a single tech product, they either just register patients or buy them then sue any one that comes up with the same idea. Patients can  be in the hundred for a single product, in the case Sonos have over 100 individual patients on there speakers alone

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4 minutes ago, blybo said:

Apple are not the one's being sued. Obviously Sonos believe Google are using their technology in breach of several patents or they would not go to the massive expense of suing a global giant.

I believe Apple came up with their own solution 

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Apple were also a candidate for being sued (Sonos said) but you don't try to eat two elephants at once.

 

Discussion on the technical/ computer code aspects of the patent and whether it is can be the basis for suing at ars technica (link posted this time)

 

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/01/in-a-flashpoint-for-the-rebellion-against-big-tech-sonos-sues-google-for-patent-infringement/

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chill3 said:

I believe Apple came up with their own solution 

They all believe they came up with their own solution! :)

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1 hour ago, Chill3 said:

In the US patients can cover a detailed technical ideas, not restricted to hate ware, it’s a massive industry, there are literally companies worth hundreds of millions that have never produced a single tech product, they either just register patients or buy them then sue any one that comes up with the same idea. Patients can  be in the hundred for a single product, in the case Sonos have over 100 individual patients on there speakers alone

Sorta same thing, Domain names,my Boss's company in the US when I worked there had to pay $150K US to get his own name.com of some faceless IT Student--whom had over 100 in his portfolio :|

 

Smart little Bas**rd:ph34r:!

 

Willco

 

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