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LostIdentity

Wiring for Home Theater Amp / Projector / Screen

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How do we do trigger wiring? Does it go from the motorised projector screen to the amp and another to the projector? or from screen to the projector? 

 

What wire is also involved as I will need to run it during build?

 

Hardware I am looking at (to understand what they can do)

Amp: Yamaha 9.2-channel AVENTAGE or Denon X4500 or similar

Projector: BenQ TK800M or Epson TW7100 or similar

Screen: Grandview or Elite Screen Motorised Screen

 

Trying to figure out what all wiring I need between all the three devices so that I can get their full potential? 

 

Or just use a Harmony Remote for IR and when I say do Movie activity it drops the screen via IR blaster, switches on amp , projector?

 

In addition there is a TV behind the screen which drops and a 5.1.2 Setup so if anyone can tell me all the runs required for wiring then that will be appreciated :D 

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It's easier to use a harmony remote's IR commands for the projector screen than run a cable. If you do go the cable route you need 3.5mm mono cable, but finding an adequate length could be problematic - try a DJ supplier like StoreDJ.

 

Any 4K HDMI cable over 7m you're safest using a fibreoptic cable like Ruipro to ensure adequate bandwidth. Best to run it in 40mm electrical conduit. Keeps the ends protected and especially tape the covers on - tradies can be brutal with stuff. I'd run a CAT6 network cable in the conduit as well, plus a good quality draw string or two to assist if you ever need to replace the cable as technology changes.

 

Use a quality speaker cable for in-wall and in-ceiling runs, not the cheap stuff many sparkies stock- I used this one.  12AWG gauge will be fine for any reasonable run. Note a larger gauge number is actually a thinner wire - don't let the sparky spin you a line.

 

Use the Dolby setup guides for your speaker layout.

 

Keep your main seating off the back wall - my rule of thumb is about 30% of room depth off the back wall. Try to have carpet and curtains - not all hard surfaces - latter will make the acoustics awful.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Quark said:

It's easier to use a harmony remote's IR commands for the projector screen than run a cable.

Thanks I am thinking same.. Will drop cable idea.. should work with any screen which has remote I guess

 

9 minutes ago, Quark said:

Any 4K HDMI cable over 7m you're safest using a fibreoptic cable like Ruipro to ensure adequate bandwidth

Yep I am infact thinking of getting the 8k version of it..  no ?

 

9 minutes ago, Quark said:

I'd run a CAT6 network cable in the conduit as well, plus a good quality draw string or two to assist if you ever need to replace the cable as technology changes.

Good tip .. thanks

 

9 minutes ago, Quark said:

12AWG gauge will be fine for any reasonable run.

I was going 14AWG.. Should I go 12 AWG?

Edited by LostIdentity

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1 minute ago, LostIdentity said:

I was going 14AWG.. Should I go 12 AWG?

Depends on your cable length and the impedance of the speakers. Scroll down in this link for a table showing minimum gauge requirements. Note that once you allow for free cable on the AVR end, plus runs up/down walls and across ceilings the lengths add up quickly. I'm not a fan of using wall plates with connectors for speakers. - any connection is a potential weak point - just use a brush type wall plate.

 

Which reminds me, under no circumstances use a wall plate with connectors for your HDMI cable - it will almost certainly cause problems with 4K signals. Also, any lengthy 4K HDMI cable will be "active" (drawing current from the source to amplify the signal to the display). This means it is directional and will not work if installed the wrong way. Sparkies who are used to working with older HDMI cables may be unaware of the directionality requirement.

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2 minutes ago, Quark said:

Depends on your cable length and the impedance of the speakers.

Max length to back wall mounted speakers will probably 12-15m max and rest smaller.. speaker setup will be Paradigm mostly on budget.. safe to do 12 or 14 AWG? (sorry didn't understand the impedance chart - novice)

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14 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

Max length to back wall mounted speakers will probably 12-15m max and rest smaller.. speaker setup will be Paradigm mostly on budget.. safe to do 12 or 14 AWG? (sorry didn't understand the impedance chart - novice)

If the speakers have an impedance of 6 Ohm or higher you'll be fine at 15m with 14 AWG. If 4 Ohm, best to step up to 12 AWG, but probably not essential.

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10 minutes ago, Quark said:

If the speakers have an impedance of 6 Ohm or higher you'll be fine at 15m with 14 AWG. If 4 Ohm, best to step up to 12 AWG, but probably not essential.

The current speakers chosen (not bought) says "compatible with 8 ohms" so I guess 14 AWG is fine but will have to check all speakers... but will have a look at cost and see if I should go 12 AWG just in case... 

 

So what I am thinking overall is 

  1. 12/14 AWG speaker wires to the rear and in ceiling atmos speakers all open (no wall plates)
  2. 1 GPO + 1 CAT6 + 1 Fibre Optic HDMI from Projector to Amp (in a 40mm pipe with draw strings for future)
  3. 1 GPO + 1 CAT6 from Screen to Amp
  4. 1 GPO + 2 x CAT6 + 3M HDMI from mounted TV to AMP (2 CAT6 or maybe 1)
  5. Front speakers wires will just be running along the floor to Amp

Anything else I might be missing for the theatre room setup? 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, LostIdentity said:

The current speakers chosen (not bought) says "compatible with 8 ohms" so I guess 14 AWG is fine but will have to check all speakers... but will have a look at cost and see if I should go 12 AWG just in case... 

 

So what I am thinking overall is 

  1. 12/14 AWG speaker wires to the rear and in ceiling atmos speakers all open (no wall plates)
  2. 1 GPO + 1 CAT6 + 1 Fibre Optic HDMI from Projector to Amp (in a 40mm pipe with draw strings for future)
  3. 1 GPO + 1 CAT6 from Screen to Amp
  4. 1 GPO + 2 x CAT6 + 3M HDMI from mounted TV to AMP (2 CAT6 or maybe 1)
  5. Front speakers wires will just be running along the floor to Amp

Anything else I might be missing for the theatre room setup? 

Your surrounds and Atmos speakers don't carry much load so you'll be fine with 14AWG. I only went 12AWG because I'm a bit OCD.

 

I'll leave others to respond re: speaker choices.

 

P.S. I wouldn't bother with CAT6 for the screen.

Edited by Quark

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Thanks @Quark

 

For the TV to Amp HDMI wire - should I bother with CL2/CL3 (Monoprice etc) or something simple? Any link for 2m or 3m wire? I've got the RuiPro for the projector run

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

Thanks @Quark

 

For the TV to Amp HDMI wire - should I bother with CL2/CL3 (Monoprice etc) or something simple? Any link for 2m or 3m wire? I've got the RuiPro for the projector run

Any reputable High Speed rated cable will be fine for 2-3m - I use some from Officeworks. In my last place I used an early Monoprice CL2 cable and it wouldn't pass 4K material above 30Hz.

Edited by Quark

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Posted (edited)

How do these 8K 2M look?

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Albatross-HDMI-Cable-1m-1-5m-2m-3m-4m-5m-v2-0b-v2-1-High-Speed-with-Ethernet/153672693628

 

Don't want to go EzyHD as getting charged shipping for the cable due to value less than $75

 

Or perhaps Selbys: https://www.selby.com.au/cables/hdmi-cables/selby-hdmi-ultra-high-speed-8k-4k-uhd-cable-configurable.html

Edited by LostIdentity

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Posted (edited)

Mounting Query - If I get Peerless PRG-UNV from US (Seems popular here).. do I need an extension arm or something else? Or just the mount can goto ceiling? I won't have any view obstruction so can't think why I would need an extension arm? If needed, what all stuff do I need for mount?

 

Or should I get the smaller brother Peerless PRGS-UNV or something locally? Ceiling is 2.7m

 

Please advise

Edited by LostIdentity

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1 hour ago, LostIdentity said:

Mounting Query - If I get Peerless PRG-UNV from US (Seems popular here).. do I need an extension arm or something else? Or just the mount can goto ceiling? I won't have any view obstruction so can't think why I would need an extension arm? If needed, what all stuff do I need for mount?

 

Or should I get the smaller brother Peerless PRGS-UNV or something locally? Ceiling is 2.7m

 

Please advise

 

The BenQ doesn't appear (after a quick look at the specs) to have any lens shift and relies on keystone adjustments unless perfectly positioned (this is a real PITA and will probably require a short pole). Keystone causes loss of resolution and can cause image artefacts. The Peerless mounts aren't really optimised to keystone installations. Also, make sure you don't suffer from rainbow effects with the DLP tech in the BenQ.

 

The Epson has lens shift which makes installation much easier. Note the lens is offset from centre - try to install the mount so the lens is centred on the screen as you lose vertical shift as you use more horizontal shift. With lens shift setup is based on having the projector level and at right angles to the screen, then use the shift adjustments to move the image onto the screen - don't tilt or swing the projector - this will require keystone adjustments and as you may have gathered, I'm not a fan (and hence would recommend the Epson over the BenQ).

 

Check with Peerless on the mount compatibility with your preferred projector. B&H Photo or Amazon are both good options - the local distributor bends us over on price.

 

For the projector mount, I'd recommend you install some 17+mm plywood between the beams while the frame is under construction - don't rely on plaster toggles, even for these relatively light projectors.

 

 

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first thing with pj is how big is the room? where are you mounting the pj?

 

if possible skip ceiling mounts and shelf mount it..life will be easier.

 

i reckon you are over mounting, that is not a big jvc or epson 9400, no need to buy such a mount imo. selby acoustics sell some.

 

unfortunately the benq tk800/M has retained the w1700 idea of no lens shift.. shameful by benq when the 1080p pjs had/have 10% vertical which may seem small but still helps more than you might think.

 

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1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

first thing with pj is how big is the room? where are you mounting the pj?

 

Room is 3.6m(W) x 5.5 (L) x 2.7 (H).. mounting on the back say approx 4m

 

1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

if possible skip ceiling mounts and shelf mount it..life will be easier.

 

Building a shelf might be more expensive atm.. not sure.. 

 

1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

i reckon you are over mounting, that is not a big jvc or epson 9400, no need to buy such a mount imo. selby acoustics sell some.

 

I am actually considering Epson 9400.. But if not I will think about the mount then.. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Quark said:

The BenQ doesn't appear (after a quick look at the specs) to have any lens shift and relies on keystone adjustments unless perfectly positioned (this is a real PITA and will probably require a short pole).

Oh.. I don't know all this stuff.. Might not consider BenQ then.. 

 

Just that someone is coming from UK and I can get the mount for $220 with him so need to decide fast.. but then again I havent' even decided on a projector need some help with that.. 

 

8 hours ago, Quark said:

For the projector mount, I'd recommend you install some 17+mm plywood between the beams while the frame is under construction - don't rely on plaster toggles, even for these relatively light projectors.

 

Might be too late.. but I think the location was around wooden beam so was thinking to drill / install the mount on the beam unless it is not possible?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

i reckon you are over mounting, that is not a big jvc or epson 9400, no need to buy such a mount imo. selby acoustics sell some.

 

 

 

Agree it's probably overspecced for OP initial projector choices, but it does give flexibility for the future.

18 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

Room is 3.6m(W) x 5.5 (L) x 2.7 (H).. mounting on the back say approx 4m

 

Building a shelf might be more expensive atm.. not sure.. 

 

I am actually considering Epson 9400.. But if not I will think about the mount then.. 

 

 

The TW9400 is a much better choice and the Peerless mount will be ideal.

 

I shelf mount, but that brings it's own issues with mounting - you can see my approach here and here.

16 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

Oh.. I don't know all this stuff.. Might not consider BenQ then.. 

 

Just that someone is coming from UK and I can get the mount for $220 with him so need to decide fast.. but then again I havent' even decided on a projector need some help with that.. 

 

Might be too late.. but I think the location was around wooden beam so was thinking to drill / install the mount on the beam unless it is not possible?

Will you have access to the ceiling space once the house is built? If so, just use ply with some right angle brackets between beams. If not the fall back option is use a stud detector and install a sheet of ply across a couple of beams and paint it to match the ceiling.

 

Amazon and B&H will charge similar $ so don't feel rushed.

You really need to decide on a projector before you can sort out the mounting area - throw distances / lens shift etc can vary a lot.

Edited by Quark

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1 minute ago, Quark said:

The TW9400 is a much better choice and the Peerless mount will be ideal.

 

Thanks will look at costing and if its worth it then will get that projector (another thread perhaps to confirm choices) and will get Peerless Mount from UK

 

2 minutes ago, Quark said:

Will you have access to the ceiling space once the house is built?

No, townhouse and room is ground floor so yeah pretty stuck.

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5 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

No, townhouse and room is ground floor so yeah pretty stuck.

Then ply over the plaster is the best option unless you're lucky enough to find a big beam in just the right spot. You can always use some fancy architrave along the edges to make it look better integrated.

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firstly I woudl run the trigger cable. it is full proof. doesnt miss an IR signal, projector comes on, screen drops. projector goes off, screen goes up, its a very cheap thing and most simple to run. run along wiht hdmi cable no additional cable to run.

 

12 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

Thanks will look at costing and if its worth it then will get that projector (another thread perhaps to confirm choices) and will get Peerless Mount from UK

 

peerless mount is a must if going for larger projectors, in my place it is indeed been universal and seen 5 projectors in its time. initially i bought a cheap selby for a previous gen epson many years ago prior to epson 9000 series. well i struggled with the selby mount the epson i had ... had an offset lens and you had to jiggle to projector in your hands try line it up in your hands before tightening up everything with no hope of perfectly lining up. took back to selby got money back no problems...the guy there (now owner told me straight off wish told him what projector was using with wouldnt have suggested it ! ) consulted the forum and ended up wiht the peerless ...was years and years ago. why peerless from the uk ? b&H is likely best option.

 

re hdmi cables ? what is the length  ? if 9m or 30ft or less the mono price premium certified are a no brainer ? very affordably priced from amazon au.(free shipping wiht a prime account)  at 10m the office works comsol works for many people. if have a yamaha amp is only option ive heard not work they tend to have not enough signal over hdmi. the denon marantz have read have been fine. ive been using mine for many years now. faultless. passes all cable tests (appletv 4k and xbox one x) for full bandwidth. there are no premium certified cables past 9m(30ft) so anything buy... make sure to check before installing... and make sure any cables installed are possible to be replaced... cables can and do fail too....

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1 hour ago, Quark said:

Then ply over the plaster is the best option unless you're lucky enough to find a big beam in just the right spot. You can always use some fancy architrave along the edges to make it look better integrated.

I will be able to reinforce that area.. thanks

 

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

firstly I woudl run the trigger cable

Where can I get a 5-6m trigger cable? Any links? I thought IR works fine? Problem will be the conduit running from projector to amp will need to split in middle to carry the trigger wire from screen to projector.. so was hoping IR was easy and works!!!

 

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

why peerless from the uk ? b&H is likely best option.

B&H is $262 AUD delivered but from UK I can get it for $230 .. not a biggie but every $ counts if possible :)

 

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

re hdmi cables ? what is the length  ?

I've ordered a RuiPro 8K Optic Fiber for 10m (projector to amp) and was planning to get something locally 4k/8k for 2m for TV to amp. That was most popular.. Hope that is a good one?

 

Since install is happening in a week or so for cable runs, i can't wait for Amazon US to delivery unfortunately. Should get a 2.0A 4K or a 8K 2.1A? Any eBay / Amazon / local AU links appreciated

 

1 hour ago, betty boop said:

if have a yamaha amp is only option ive heard not work they tend to have not enough signal over hdmi. the denon marantz have read have been fine.

I have not decided on the amp but was thinking between Yamaha or Denon. If any recommendation for projector, amp and screen that would be great.. Speakers I think mid range for me will be Paradigm setup.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

I have not decided on the amp but was thinking between Yamaha or Denon. If any recommendation for projector, amp and screen that would be great.. Speakers I think mid range for me will be Paradigm setup.

Yamaha tend to do the amp side of things slightly better. Denon/Marantz have better room correction once you're looking at models with Audyssey XT32 (i.e. not XT).

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Just now, Quark said:

Yamaha tend to do the amp side of things slightly better. Denon/Marantz have better room correction once you're looking at models with Audyssey XT32 (i.e. not XT).

Also, I should mention that recent Yamahas have a reputation for putting out very meagre voltage on their HDMI outputs - makes cable quality more important.

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24 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

Where can I get a 5-6m trigger cable? Any links? I thought IR works fine? Problem will be the conduit running from projector to amp will need to split in middle to carry the trigger wire from screen to projector.. so was hoping IR was easy and works!!!

you just run the hdmi cable and trigger cable together ? both are going from hdmi on amp to hdmi on projector ? i just ran both same time. its only really run together and one run. I made my trigger cable bu there are on ebay. can also check into jay car and such.

 

25 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

I've ordered a RuiPro 8K Optic Fiber for 10m (projector to amp) and was planning to get something locally 4k/8k for 2m for TV to amp. That was most popular.. Hope that is a good one?

unnecessary  in my opinion for 10m, but its your money. there is NO point 2nd guessing 8k, especially at your budget limitation. we still dont even have equipment really cable and fully specd as yet to worry about cables. main thing is to at build stage put in a setup that allows cable replacement ...which might be necessary if one goes bung...let alone tech leaves behind :)

 

2m just get something from office works...can take back if any concerns...theres no such thing like 

37 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

get a 2.0A 4K or a 8K 2.1A?

hdmi cables are high speed... and where premium certified which are guaranteed....

27 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

Since install is happening in a week or so for cable runs, i can't wait for Amazon US to delivery unfortunately. Should get a 2.0A 4K or a 8K 2.1A? Any eBay / Amazon / local AU links appreciated

install in a week leaves too late for anything bar buying from shops in that case i would suggest. anything ordered this week from anywhere like ebay and such given are postal service is unlikely to get to you this week for use next week.

 

29 minutes ago, LostIdentity said:

B&H is $262 AUD delivered but from UK I can get it for $230 .. not a biggie but every $ counts if possible :)

B&H will get to you in 5 days.. not sure what the uk option if install happening in a week...

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