Guest Muon N' Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) I can't listen to headphones, but some seem to prefer them. For myself at least listening that way would tell me little of how something would perform with my speakers. Edited January 24, 2020 by Muon N' typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PicoWattson Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 The EMM Labs DV2 has a low 4V and high 7V output. Ed Meitner might know a thing or two about DACS. Chris Connaker (Computer Audiophile/Audiophile Style) seems to prefer 7V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 What is wrong with peoples amps/pre amps that they need these high output levels Or is it the newer chip designs or the implementations of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PositivelyMusicallyGeared Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Muon N' said: What is wrong with peoples amps/pre amps that they need these high output levels These 'low' outputs won't be a problem if one has a top-notch, sensitive pre-amp, which is expensive. Edited January 24, 2020 by PositivelyMusicallyGeared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PicoWattson Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 The EMM Labs DV2 is not designed to be used with a preamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 45 minutes ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: These 'low' outputs won't be a problem if one has a top-notch, sensitive pre-amp, which is expensive. What low outputs? They seem to have high outputs, most integrated amps and pre amps can work with 2v and and less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PositivelyMusicallyGeared Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Muon N' said: What low outputs? They seem to have high outputs, most integrated amps and pre amps can work with 2v and and less. Never mind, we've got mixed up in different things in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 minute ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: Never mind, we've got mixed up in different things in this thread. Very much so I was looking at a lot of these DAC's (never mind the EMM Labs one as that is not for everyone) and how they seem to have higher than the traditional 2v line level, and just trying to work out why things have moved in this direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PositivelyMusicallyGeared Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Muon N' said: I was looking at a lot of these DAC's (never mind the EMM Labs one as that is not for everyone) and how they seem to have higher than the traditional 2v line level, and just trying to work out why things have moved in this direction. Which DACs are you talking about? D90 has 2v. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: Which DACs are you talking about? D90 has 2v. I guess it came about when you said you would like a higher output, then Chris mentions another DAC that had 2.8v and he considered that low. I'm also not sure what the enclosure size has to do with the output level, or how it could mean it has to be lower. Edit: these newer DAC's seem to be taking over the pre side of things having volume controls and such. Edited January 24, 2020 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I better just watch this thread and be happy that I'm sorted in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PositivelyMusicallyGeared Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Muon N' said: I guess it came about when you said you would like a higher output, then Cris mentions another DAC that had 2.8v and he considered that low. I'm also not sure what the enclosure size has to do with the output level, or how it could mean it has to be lower. The EMM Labs DV2 does have higher output: Maximum output levels: 8.04 or 7.22V (+20.3/19.4dBu), balanced; 4.02 or 3.61V (+14.3/13.4dBu), unbalanced. which is fantastic as DAC output, and also makes it able to drive a power amp directly. Even so, it does not compare with a dedicated pre-amp. D90, with its 2v output, is not in the same category. As for the size of the enclosure, it seems to me that many manufacturers of DACs, who rely on online business, seem to want to limit product size, or rather the weight of the product to under 2kg, very much with the postage in mind. High output wouldn't be a priority in such a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDX Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 8 hours ago, kelossus said: Since that post I have now read the ASR and this SNA thread in it's entirety and it certainly has me reconsidering the whole purchase. I feel like I am getting sucked into the somewhat false hype based purely on measurements. I need some solid recommendations from experienced ears. Also historically the new Topping models get released on MassDrop at a discount, it might be worth waiting? I am somewhat prepared to buy it and take a possible 30-40% loss on the 2nd hand market if it's not my cup of tea. I would need to directly compare it to the Fein/Grob to draw any conclusions. I am sure a few local SNA members would be interested to see how this stacked up, maybe even Clay? I don't think it would be as good as Clay's products but that is based on nothing. I think amazon has them for sale? Buy from amazon if not like, return it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 55 minutes ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: As for the size of the enclosure, it seems to me that many manufacturers of DACs, who rely on online business, seem to want to limit product size, or rather the weight of the product to under 2kg, very much with the postage in mind. High output wouldn't be a priority in such a situation. I'm not concerned with the Emm DAC And this about enclosure size dictating output V levels makes no sense at all. I'll leave you with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungbean66 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 4 hours ago, TDX said: I think amazon has them for sale? Buy from amazon if not like, return it. +1 This is what I will do if I ever feel the need to upgrade to a D70 or D90. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 9 hours ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said: Which DACs are you talking about? D90 has 2v. All the figures I was quoting were the balanced output voltage. The D90 has 4v balanaced 2v unbalanced. Fairly standard. The directstream has 2.8v balanced 1.4v unbalanced. It's noticeably quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 7 hours ago, TDX said: I think amazon has them for sale? Buy from amazon if not like, return it. I saw them on Amazon. I had no idea you could return it for a full refund. Will look into that and see if there's a catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, kelossus said: All the figures I was quoting were the balanced output voltage. The D90 has 4v balanaced 2v unbalanced. Fairly standard. The directstream has 2.8v balanced 1.4v unbalanced. It's noticeably quiet. Ah, I seez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelossus Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Looking at the below policy I don't know if Amazon would accept a return. They state the item must unused and unopened with seals intact. Is it just a matter of delicately unpackaging so when you return the item looks unused? Amazon AU Change of Mind Return Policy You may return most new, unopened items fulfilled by Amazon AU within 30 days of receipt of delivery for a replacement or full refund of the price you paid for the item if you change your mind - see About Replacements and About Refunds. Unless otherwise stated, original shipping fees for change of mind returns are not refunded. However, you may be eligible for Free Returns shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was_a Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 11 hours ago, Mungbean66 said: Although speakers image better and sound much more natural, headphones lack the issue of being surround by a room and are probably better for critical listening. They are a much cheaper alternative to reach 'high end' and have phenomenal detail retrieval. What I'm getting at is headphones would be a better indicator of a DACs performance as very subtle things can make a DAC unlistenable. No. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDX Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, kelossus said: Looking at the below policy I don't know if Amazon would accept a return. They state the item must unused and unopened with seals intact. Is it just a matter of delicately unpackaging so when you return the item looks unused? Amazon AU Change of Mind Return Policy You may return most new, unopened items fulfilled by Amazon AU within 30 days of receipt of delivery for a replacement or full refund of the price you paid for the item if you change your mind - see About Replacements and About Refunds. Unless otherwise stated, original shipping fees for change of mind returns are not refunded. However, you may be eligible for Free Returns shipping. Maybe only amazon prime items can free return? I bought one bag before, not good enough, just returned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungbean66 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, was_a said: No. Hahahahaha rightio mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDX Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 The only review I can find on amazon is “delivery in one week. Very good unit. Sounds good for its cost.” usually it means just ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 25, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted January 25, 2020 there's a (non measurement) review here: https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/topping-d90-review-a-genre-master/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was_a Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 A good review / advertorial ! (Click on the LINK and get 10% off). But there were some valuable observations on AKM's new chip. Reading between the lines, this is the biggest draw-card. Gustard's implementation in its new A22 DAC will be interesting with its transformer utilisation etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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