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Ethernet switches - PartA: Switches List, info & Experience


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14 hours ago, dbastin said:

Let's be clear about the level of John @Assisi's systems front end.  From what I can gather ...

 

Waversa WCore 2.0 $12k

Waversa WRouter $7k

Wiess DAC $14k

Wiess DSP $14k

 

Total $47k ... before the cost of switches, cables, LPSs.

 

He is a very forunate guy!

 

I didn't realise WCore 2.0 contains a switch.

I know that I am fortunate.  I look at life in the context that I cannot take it with me so, I might as well use what I have now whilst I can and have the resulting pleasure.  The Weiss section of my system comprises 3 Components.  The 502 DSP, MAN 301 streamer both connected via XLR to a Medus DAC.  The retail cost of the DAC is just a tad bit more the what you have quoted.  My Medus was originally a Medea that I bought second hand.  After a time, it went away for a while and came back upgraded to the full Medus level.  So, I have not spent as much on it as the listed retail price.

 

The Waversa Core 2.0 does have 4 X RJ45 sockets that are battery powered.  I have one cable connection only from the Core to the WRouter.  When I was contemplating getting a Core, I thought that I could dispense with the WRouter and save on the overall change over costs.  I was reliably informed from another user’s extensive experience with both components not to use the Core as a switch.  To use it only as server and that the outcome of the two together is definitely superior.  So, my cost strategy did not eventuate.  The main purpose of the post yesterday was to comment on the Waversa.  Together they are just wonderful.  I never imagined such an outcome.

John

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2 hours ago, evil c said:

I hereby challenge @Assisi to bring his digital arsenal to evil springs, and we can compare against an analog rig worth around half that.

Then let the critics decide! 😬

 

Disclaimer: Big fan and owner of the Renolabs switch 😉

DBT will be difficult!!

Hi @evil c,

I cannot accept the challenge for logistical reasons. 

It would not be possible to move the entire digital arsenal any where at all.  I could bring the Wrouter and have that first in line before the Renolabs.  I am sure that there would be a beneficial outcome in just that alone.

. 

Overall, though to get all the connections in the correct sequence does my head in sometimes if I make change.  Over the week end I moved a couple of components.  It took me sometime to get all the bits (excuse the pun) working together again.  A bit stressful.  Without comparing, I would expect that the analog would need to be very serious to at least equal where I am now with a digital front end.  I will never know the answer though.  As you know vinyl, good as it maybe can be it is not somewhere I want to go.

John

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14 minutes ago, Assisi said:

Hi @evil c,

I cannot accept the challenge for logistical reasons. 

It would not be possible to move the entire digital arsenal any where at all.  I could bring the Wrouter and have that first in line before the Renolabs.  I am sure that there would be a beneficial outcome in just that alone.

. 

 

Overall, though to get all the connections in the correct sequence does my head in sometimes if I make change.  Over the week end I moved a couple of components.  It took me sometime to get all the bits (excuse the pun) working together again.  A bit stressful.  

No problem at all John, it was only a half arsed excuse for a catch up!

And nothing l say should be taken seriously, of course.  

Just trying to agitate you digi people! 😉

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2 minutes ago, evil c said:

No problem at all John, it was only a half arsed excuse for a catch up!

And nothing l say should be taken seriously, of course.  

Just trying to agitate you digi people! 😉

I have both... Hardcore in digital too and I could not tell the differences in them. Well..., except cracks and pops from analogue gig. I think those are forever digital will never win. 

Again duck for cover!😜

Edited by AccuMagi
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1 hour ago, AccuMagi said:

I think those are forever digital will never win.

I am not trying to win anything.    It is all about needs and wants.  Digital supplies all my audio music needs.  I just do not want to go down another path that for me will have a cost.  I adore looking at Bonsai.  I will never start having a collection as I know I will not be able to stop wanting more and more.

 

John 

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57 minutes ago, Assisi said:

I am not trying to win anything.    It is all about needs and wants.  Digital supplies all my audio music needs.  I just do not want to go down another path that for me will have a cost.  I adore looking at Bonsai.  I will never start having a collection as I know I will not be able to stop wanting more and more.

 

John 

Sounds like you have never own a Turntable/record player? 
it was a joke John. 

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3 hours ago, Assisi said:

The Weiss section of my system comprises 3 Components.  The 502 DSP, MAN 301 streamer both connected via XLR to a Medus DAC. 

Sorry, I should've read your signature ... but really the point I was making is your system is very high end/cost and it may be suitable to have 8 switches in that context.

 

I gather digi -v- vinyl is pros and cons and depends what the listener values most, what their system is, what convenience they want etc.  From what I have read, there is ways digital is superior to vinyl simply due to the physics of the stylus in a groove.  But that is another topic.

 

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30 minutes ago, AccuMagi said:

Sounds like you have never own a Turntable/record player? 
it was a joke John. 

The TT was approximately 50 years ago.  I wasn't sure as to whether you were serious especially given your posts on digital topics.

 

Cheers

John

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/06/2021 at 8:15 AM, notchasingrainbow said:

Any news on the quad m12 gold switch setup? We are waiting to hear your feedback 👍

If he doesn’t tell you the telegraph, I can chime you in the Renolab…, which is much more affordable. 😁

 

My second Renolab is coming soon. Will be interesting to hook em up in series…. 

@frednork - I have been talking to the vendor, he said that he had gone through so many clocks during the R&D period and the one inside the renolab final design is OCXO 25Mhz. He has advised me not to waste my time and fund from upgrade to AfterDark clock, as he had tried them previously too. He stressed that a majority is too focusing into power supply and clock, however, rfi and emf are no less critical hence the case was developed as is. Attached Photo is one of the clock he had also tried during R&D…. He told me to go ahead with clock upgrade for the purpose of evaluating/experience only…. He said it won’t be a big improvement.  If any, it might have an adverse effect on SQ. 

50B917FF-7923-4021-BD54-C446C314E022.jpeg

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8 hours ago, AccuMagi said:

If he doesn’t tell you the telegraph, I can chime you in the Renolab…, which is much more affordable. 😁

 

My second Renolab is coming soon. Will be interesting to hook em up in series…. 

@frednork - I have been talking to the vendor, he said that he had gone through so many clocks during the R&D period and the one inside the renolab final design is OCXO 25Mhz. He has advised me not to waste my time and fund from upgrade to AfterDark clock, as he had tried them previously too. He stressed that a majority is too focusing into power supply and clock, however, rfi and emf are no less critical hence the case was developed as is. Attached Photo is one of the clock he had also tried during R&D…. He told me to go ahead with clock upgrade for the purpose of evaluating/experience only…. He said it won’t be a big improvement.  If any, it might have an adverse effect on SQ. 

50B917FF-7923-4021-BD54-C446C314E022.jpeg

Its very worthwhile to hear this perspective. Interested in how you go. I will be trying 2 x ER with  2 x BG7TBL clocks next week to see if the 2nd clock improves things noticeably (well at least to the value of the clock anyway). How do you attach a 10M clock to the Renolabs? 

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1 hour ago, frednork said:

Its very worthwhile to hear this perspective. Interested in how you go. I will be trying 2 x ER with  2 x BG7TBL clocks next week to see if the 2nd clock improves things noticeably (well at least to the value of the clock anyway). How do you attach a 10M clock to the Renolabs? 

I don’t really know just yet. Haven’t had time to dissect the thing for its internal organs… Typically, only two wires and my oscilloscope can help identify which is what. 
 

He was also talking of having a full size case for double switches in series with interval wirings. He doesn’t like the idea of connecting externally by ethernet cables… I also reserved one when it makes available. 

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10 hours ago, AccuMagi said:

@frednork - I have been talking to the vendor, he said that he had gone through so many clocks during the R&D period and the one inside the renolab final design is OCXO 25Mhz. He has advised me not to waste my time and fund from upgrade to AfterDark clock, 

 

This is pretty much what Alex Crespi from Uptone Audio has said about upgrades to the EtherRegen.  He said they have an external clock facility only because of demand from audiophiles but  in their testing  many of the popular after market clocks didn't perform as well as the one in the Regen.  

 

I  became interested in what Emile Bok (designer of Taiko  Extreme) - has been saying about ethernet switches.  He became particularly impressed with the EtherRegen when it was hooked up via optical connection but only if it was using SFP's with spec of 1.25G, 1310nm with 20km range.  

 

optical.thumb.jpg.960ecb87bd5fb3b4f2ba82636b4b2341.jpg

 

I tried the same combo at home.   There were definite differences. But since I had a cold at the time I have put off evaluating it properly until things are back to normal.  I also have an EtherRegen in the theatre room and the difference it makes to the streaming picture is not subtle.  My wife noticed it immediately after installation , and when I took it out again.  I have a 140" Cinemascope screen so the tiniest differences in picture quality get exaggerated compared to smaller screens but another member is also using it on his 65" OLED for the same reason. 

 

Here is a link to Emile Bok's comments -  Ethernet Switch Comparisons

 

 

 

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In term of cost and builds construction.., renolab is in much advantages here. 
However,  for SQ performance, will leave it to individual discretion/perception.  It is  such a sensitive topic that is often bounce within self interests which can lead to none constructive arguments…

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58 minutes ago, TP1 said:

 

This is pretty much what Alex Crespi from Uptone Audio has said about upgrades to the EtherRegen.  He said they have an external clock facility only because of demand from audiophiles but  in their testing  many of the popular after market clocks didn't perform as well as the one in the Regen.  

 

I  became interested in what Emile Bok (designer of Taiko  Extreme) - has been saying about ethernet switches.  He became particularly impressed with the EtherRegen when it was hooked up via optical connection but only if it was using SFP's with spec of 1.25G, 1310nm with 20km range.  

 

optical.thumb.jpg.960ecb87bd5fb3b4f2ba82636b4b2341.jpg

 

I tried the same combo at home.   There were definite differences. But since I had a cold at the time I have put off evaluating it properly until things are back to normal.  I also have an EtherRegen in the theatre room and the difference it makes to the streaming picture is not subtle.  My wife noticed it immediately after installation , and when I took it out again.  I have a 140" Cinemascope screen so the tiniest differences in picture quality get exaggerated compared to smaller screens but another member is also using it on his 65" OLED for the same reason. 

 

Here is a link to Emile Bok's comments -  Ethernet Switch Comparisons

 

 

 

Is there noticeable SQ differences, when you introduce that startech optical module? The lengthy yellow cable doesn’t deceive the purpose, you think?

 

Your LPSU to powering it, is already exceeding $3.5k. My experience with that psu is, it improved SQ to whatever it is powering… I know because I help to mod it myself! 😂😅

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1 hour ago, AccuMagi said:

Is there noticeable SQ differences, when you introduce that startech optical module? The lengthy yellow cable doesn’t deceive the purpose, you think?

 

Your LPSU to powering it, is already exceeding $3.5k. My experience with that psu is, it improved SQ to whatever it is powering… I know because I help to mod it myself! 😂😅

 

 

The optical connection is good for 20 Km so  zero loss from cable over 8m. In terms of sound difference, need to to do more testing but the theory is that the optical connection reduces  the RFI/EMI from the ethernet cable.   I have no idea if this is the case but since Taiko have done all the hard work testing the combo's I thought I'd give it a try. Yes, the Hashimoto modified Uptone JS-2  does indeed make anything sound better ( and look better for video) but It was also powering the other  gear so it shouldn't be an issue.

 

I still haven't decided whether optical is "better" or not. What is better for Taiko may not necessarily be the same for me .  I have found that the EtherRegen becomes seriously good when it is powered by the Uptone LPS 1.2 ( itself powered by linear PSU - not SMPS) .  I haven't tried 2 EtrherRegen in series yet mainly because  I don't want to buy a 3rd unit if it turns out to be good! 😂

 

 

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2 hours ago, TP1 said:

I tried the same combo at home.

The Startech SFP1000ZXST that is mentioned in the post that you link to in your post is 80kms and not the 20kms SFP unbranded version that is mentioned as providing a benefit with the Etheregen that the Startech did not.  The name of the beneficial SFP is unknown.  Even though there were questions as what the unbranded SFP is, I am not aware that there has been an answer.  What SFPs are you using?

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So my second renolabs switch arrived yesterday. I had it hooked in over night in series. Photo attached. 
 

What I noticed today is noise ratio further improved. The tonality much more natural, engaging, and very listenable for extended period… Sum-up: Not good…, too additive to my setup. 
 

66F2333B-77F8-47AE-86D7-E847A22A7186.thumb.jpeg.761654d8f10c2da874fa1ebffd89ce1d.jpeg

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4 hours ago, AccuMagi said:

So my second renolabs switch arrived yesterday. I had it hooked in over night in series. Photo attached. 
 

What I noticed today is noise ratio further improved. The tonality much more natural, engaging, and very listenable for extended period… Sum-up: Not good…, too additive to my setup. 
 

66F2333B-77F8-47AE-86D7-E847A22A7186.thumb.jpeg.761654d8f10c2da874fa1ebffd89ce1d.jpeg

Which Renolabs models are they @AccuMagi ?

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4 hours ago, AccuMagi said:

So my second renolabs switch arrived yesterday. I had it hooked in over night in series. Photo attached. 
 

What I noticed today is noise ratio further improved. The tonality much more natural, engaging, and very listenable for extended period… Sum-up: Not good…, too additive to my setup. 
 

66F2333B-77F8-47AE-86D7-E847A22A7186.thumb.jpeg.761654d8f10c2da874fa1ebffd89ce1d.jpeg

Not good??

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9 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

Which Renolabs models are they @AccuMagi ?

The one without an optic fibre feature. 

 

3 minutes ago, frednork said:

Not good??

Correct! Not good at all…, it is too addictive and I couldn’t leave my setup until the Boss went in and pinch my ear out…! 😁

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13 minutes ago, AccuMagi said:

I upload a quick video just capture for your feedback… 

let me know if you have a reference track so I can capture and posted on YouTube? 
 

pls feel free to critic…! 
 

 

Sounds wonderful! The antileons mated w the magicos ⚡

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