Are Most of Us Listening In Too Big a Room?

[Steve M]

Hi All,

 

We’ve all heard the comment that the ’room is everything’ with our systems, with which I agree allowing for the fact that we have to achieve domestic harmony and consequently our main rig tends to sit in whatever room strikes the best balance between good sound and domestic bliss.

 

I am making this thread because recently the last my kids moved out of home and I have a system/(s) set up in his bedroom which is 3.6m x 3.2m, just for a laugh and to see what it can do in that more intimate space than my main lounge area which is a large 6.5m x 8.0m space. Well, there are both positive and negative results in the smaller room. First the positives, gobsmackingly good bass! from my 1m high WAR Audio Reference One loudspeaker with the sota 8” Cabasse 21NDC bass driver in a 50L bass reflex box. Never heard anything like it and didn’t think the speaker was capable of the loud dynamics and impact it is giving in the smaller room. And, the first time I am hearing intonation, shifts in articulation and depth, super tight super fast mid bass and low bass that this RRP $8K speaker is engineered to do - loving it and triple thumbs up.  The overall sound is also in your face and dynamic, firm not soft and very realistic ...perhaps a little too much so in the small room, but very involving in its own way. 
 

As to the negatives, firstly it is quite easy to overpower the room with too much bass output and an excess of coloration/resonance in the room, so the volume control has to be kept below 12 o’clock. Secondly, I’ve experimented with various levels of sound absorbing foam in the room to control this, too much foam kills treble extension and life, a small amount of foam seems best in this room. Also, the small room does not sound very sweet for some reason? it is an exciting room to listen to in there, but maybe not so engaging in a musical way that the big room achieves.

 

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is to say that while most of us probably have our main systems firing into a large space for maximum effect and trying to achieve the best with spatial imaging etc, are we missing out on other benefits that a smaller room may yield?

 

Cheers,

 

Steve.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Steve M

[agentorange2]

Hi Steve , 

 

It might be worth setting up the room on the diagonal as it is pretty close to being a square.

 

Could be a bit of fun.

[Steve M]

I’ll give that a try as I know it can work well sometimes ...

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I’m in a rental for the moment, I largely resolved a 3200 x 4500 room issues with moderate room treatment to kill reflections and echo, and Dirac to manage the rest... It’s not perfect, but highly, highly effective.... huge soundstage and flat frequency response.

Edited December 22, 2019 by furtherpale

[almikel]

On 22/12/2019 at 12:08 AM, Steve M said:

while most of us probably have our main systems firing into a large space for maximum effect and trying to achieve the best with spatial imaging etc, are we missing out on other benefits that a smaller room may yield?

When we moved into our current house years ago, I setup the stereo in the lounge/dining room 8m x 5m x 4m - incredibly poor sound to what we had in the previous house - boomy horrible bass.

 

I suggested to SWMBO treating the lounge/dining room - she said move the stereo to the spare room downstairs and put as much treatment as I wanted... that's been the stereo room for the last 9 years - a small lightly constructed room 3m x 4m x 2.1m.

Fortunately based on it's light construction, it leaks low bass like a sieve (I have a tolerant family and neighbours), and with plenty of absorption and a few bands of EQ the bass is amazing - tight with no overhang, and a relatively smooth FR to below 20Hz with a single DIY sub that takes up too much valuable room real estate.

 

Small rooms can create great sound, but IMHO require more absorption per square metre than larger rooms to manage the bass, hence are a higher risk to making the room "too dead"...but manageable with light construction where the low bass is either absorbed or transmitted.  

...getting the bass under control in a small and rigid room would IMHO be virtually impossible.

 

In most scenarios, the bigger the room the better - but as you've found, small rooms can sound great...

On 22/12/2019 at 12:08 AM, Steve M said:

First the positives, gobsmackingly good bass!

and IMHO that's what it's all about 

 

On 22/12/2019 at 12:08 AM, Steve M said:

the last my kids moved out of home and I have a system/(s) set up in his bedroom

here's hoping he doesn't want his room back too soon ...they keep coming back  these days...

 

 

cheers

Mike

[Steve M]

To continue the discussion about smaller rooms being beneficial ...

 

This defies logic and should not work, but tonight I put the largest bass reflex box speaker in my collection into the spare kids bedroom at 3.6m x 3.2m ...and it sounds incredible in there! I was expecting a muddy ‘overdriven room’ sound, instead I have superb clarity, good soundstage depth and width and accurate tight low down extended bass.

 

The Are You Authentic AYA, Improvisation track which is my go-to test for good imaging, sparkling treble and low bass has never sounded better. Beats me why it should sound that good in the small room. Seems to go against what we understand about the physics of small rooms not being able to portray good imaging and expect to fail at producing low bass due to the correct wavelength not being able to form?

 

Steve.

 

.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Steve M

[maxspl]

My main bedroom is 3.5 x 3.2m and also sounds superb.

Far superior to the much larger living room/ kitchen area.

Tight deep bass even from small mini monitors , haven't tried any large bass reflex designs in there yet though.

[wen]

my listening room is 4 x 4.5 m, floor standing speakers are up against curtains, they are front and rear ported, and my couch against the opposite wall, with a wool wall hanging behind, sounds supurb, currently using an 8 watt valve amp, couldn't be happier

[almikel]

On 07/01/2020 at 9:49 AM, wen said:

my listening room is 4 x 4.5 m, floor standing speakers are up against curtains, they are front and rear ported, and my couch against the opposite wall, with a wool wall hanging behind, sounds supurb, currently using an 8 watt valve amp, couldn't be happier

I'd be interested to know your typical SPL levels at the listening position...I had 10W monoblock amps on my tweeters and they clipped at high volumes (tri-amp active setup) - serious question - does it play loud in your opinion?

 

cheers

Mike

[wen]

using an SPL meter on my phone, rarely get above 70db, i have hearing aids, too much volume saturate the hearing aids, and overpowers the room, pleasant listening at that level or lower, any time, day or night

[Versus rider]

Since moving my set up back from my barn in France to uk I now have a garden room I constructed with raised wood floor and carpet tiles ( raised floor I hear you say not good ) it's wood construction with ship lap timber outside and plasterboar inside and 8" of insulation squashed into a 4" cavity, cannot hear anything outside with the double glazed French doors closed. Inside I have 4' x 2' x 2" acoustic panels,  at first reflection on right speaker, on ceiling at first reflection and three panels behind my sofa, two upright on wall and third at angle above wall mounted panels and touching the ceiling. Foam bass traps in top corners behind kit and kilo serge wool curtain as used in vocal booths by French door at left speaker first reflection point. Room is only 2m wide by just under 3m long with a pitch ceiling. I have tqwt with Lii audio crystal 10 full range driver, box is 940mm tall, 450mm deep and 350mm wide. Listen at average 80db and sound is superb. Will try to post photos

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Versus rider

[Versus rider]

[Versus rider]

[Versus rider]

Edited January 31, 2020 by Versus rider

[Versus rider]

[Versus rider]

[MattyW]

18 hours ago, Versus rider said:

Since moving my set up back from my barn in France to uk I now have a garden room I constructed with raised wood floor and carpet tiles ( raised floor I hear you say not good ) it's wood construction with ship lap timber outside and plasterboar inside and 8" of insulation squashed into a 4" cavity, cannot hear anything outside with the double glazed French doors closed. Inside I have 4' x 2' x 2" acoustic panels,  at first reflection on right speaker, on ceiling at first reflection and three panels behind my sofa, two upright on wall and third at angle above wall mounted panels and touching the ceiling. Foam bass traps in top corners behind kit and kilo serge wool curtain as used in vocal booths by French door at left speaker first reflection point. Room is only 2m wide by just under 3m long with a pitch ceiling. I have tqwt with Lii audio crystal 10 full range driver, box is 940mm tall, 450mm deep and 350mm wide. Listen at average 80db and sound is superb. Will try to post photos

 

 

Very nice.  The Lii Audio drivers are spectacular. I'm using their FAST-10S and W-15 drivers myself in u frame open baffles along with a pair of super tweeters. Just superb.

[Versus rider]

1 hour ago, MattyW said:

Very nice.  The Lii Audio drivers are spectacular. I'm using their FAST-10S and W-15 drivers myself in u frame open baffles along with a pair of super tweeters. Just superb.

You have an impressive kit list there. I'm not familiar with your amp, are you running a passive crossover

[MattyW]

5 minutes ago, Versus rider said:

You have an impressive kit list there. I'm not familiar with your amp, are you running a passive crossover

Just a pair of caps on the two super tweeters (1uf Duelund RS-Cu and 0.47 Arizona Blue Cactus) though the Fast-10S and W-15 are run full range and on separate amps. Necessary as the W-15 is only 91db efficient.

 

The Wavebourn Edelweiss-3 is a prototype based around CV1127 radar sweep tubes. One of a kind.  Wavebourn brings out production models this year