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Uptone Audio EtherREGEN Owners & Discussion Thread


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@RussB

Wireless is a matter of getting an Access Point.  Ubiquiti APs are pricey and way over spec for a household.  I use a TP link AP and its way better than WiFi via iinet supplied device. Or your TP link router could be configured as Access Point?

 

I will find and share the helpful tips I got from Ubiquiti community to get EdgeRouter up and running.  It probably took me about 15-30 minutes and I am a novice.

 

My intent is to use fibre from nbn box location to allow EdgeRouter to be located amongst my hifi gear (esp power conditioner) with small cost of cabling that does not transmit or collect noise. Currently getting amazing results with just Cat 5e fulfilling that role.

 

Finally, I removed the SSD and SATA data and power cables from my already very low noise Antipodes EX,  placed 1 x SR ECT in the EX on the outgoing ethernet port ... and to my surprise Tidal 16bit 44kHz audio sounds better than higher resolution off SSD.  Im not sure if that is due to removing SSD or the ECT but it will be interesting to hear how reinstalling SSD will sound.

Edited by dbastin
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I had the chance to listen to an EtherRegen yesterday for a few hours due to the fantastic generosity of an SNA member along with some exotic ethernet cables also on loan from another SNA er.  Ha, luc

Here is my review after burn-in and extended listening:   Current Setup   A simple UPnP setup using a MinimServer to get music from a NAS and serving to a pair of Devialet Ph

Uptone Audio have released an Ethernet switch specifically designed for the audio market.   Useful Links: EtherRegen product information EtherREGEN User Guide Uptone Audio Spo

On 10/10/2020 at 9:46 AM, dbastin said:

Yes, I think many including me have not asked the simple question ... do I need a switch?  My 2nd Gigafoil will replace ER and I suspect will sound better based on past experiments.

I used mine as a switch in my office for some weeks before installing it into hifi system.  I figured that gets data flowing too.

Hi Bastin,

 

Not exact but probably similar ....

 

I just had my 15 yrs old 15m ethernet from the hardware store plugged from my ISP's ONR directly to the CX that is about 7m across my living room and had just ordered a 25m Supra cat 8 cable from ebay to run up the false ceiling across the room.

 

I had my CX previously connected to an office grade Netgear switch with all others e..g. TV, cable setup box, nas etc. which is turn connected to an Airties mesh node that is powered by the zerozone lps as is the switch. 

 

Direct ethernet from the ONR to the CX sounded so much cleaner and clearer with more and distinct details as well ad increase in depth and width that my wife can tell in a 10s of seconds.

 

Looking forward to installing the dedicated 25m Supra cat 8 instead of the 15 yr old antique of probably cat 4 or 5 which cannot be worse ... glad done away with any expensive switch, lps, ethernet cable loom 😃

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

 

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Edited by richardloh
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Hi everyone 

 

just plugged in my new EtherRegen with a SOTM dCBL cat 7 running between the regen and my lumin U1 mini. 
 

Initially my soundstage was horribly smudged and localized in the speakers but after a few songs it’s started popping and I can hear some magic that I haven’t heard before. It’s one of those upgrades that is making me hear things with more clarity and definition than what I had heard previously. 
 

How much burn in does everyone think is needed? I’m going to leave roon running overnight and tomorrow while I’m at work. Hopefully over the next few days I’ll continue to hear some more improvements but so far I’m impressed. I’m definitely hearing more improvement than I did when I first bought $2k speakers cables for the first time. :)  

Edited by Jhsg
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1 minute ago, Jhsg said:

How much burn in does everyone think is needed? I’m going to leave roon running overnight and tomorrow while I’m at work. Hopefully over the next few days I’ll continue to hear some more improvements but so far I’m impressed. I’m definitely hearing more improvement than I did when I first bought $2k speakers cables for the first time. :)  

80 hours was when things started to come good for me. And continued to improve to about 200 hours...

 

Enjoy the music...

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Just now, Snoopy8 said:

80 hours was when things started to come good for me. And continued to improve to about 200 hours...

 

Enjoy the music...

Thanks mate. 
 

I seem to be in a constant 0-200hr burn in process for something at the moment. One day everything will be burned in. 🤓

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4 minutes ago, Pasic007 said:

Anyone in Au sell these? Wouldnt mind try it myself. Despite ASR review... 

I just had a look at the ASR review. Interesting. I’m 2hrs in and it’s making a difference. No doubt about it. I’ve spent more for less benefit. 
 

Not sure where you can buy them from. I got mine second hand on here. 

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5 minutes ago, Jhsg said:

I just had a look at the ASR review. Interesting. I’m 2hrs in and it’s making a difference. No doubt about it. I’ve spent more for less benefit. 
 

Not sure where you can buy them from. I got mine second hand on here. 

Ah thats good to know. 

I also watched this, sry if it was posted already 😅

 

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31 minutes ago, Pasic007 said:

Anyone in Au sell these? 

Sorry, no AU resellers. You can get direct from Uptone (shipped via FedEx)

https://uptoneaudio.com/products/etherregen

or from reseller in Hong Kong (check who they use for shipping during these COVID-19 times)

https://www.adark.co/products/uptone-etherregen-femto-switch-vip-purchase?_pos=1&_sid=37bde40d2&_ss=r

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As I wrap up my first night of listening, I have to say that I’m impressed. The soundstage is far more 3 dimensional and I’m hearing a lot more detail. Very happy. 
 

The only issue I’m having is my roon remote seems a little less responsive and is crashing on my iPhone a fair bit where it was stable & okay last night. Could be a million things and possibly a roon issue. Weird but that’s hifi for you! 

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5 minutes ago, Jhsg said:

As I wrap up my first night of listening, I have to say that I’m impressed. The soundstage is far more 3 dimensional and I’m hearing a lot more detail. Very happy. 
 

The only issue I’m having is my roon remote seems a little less responsive and is crashing on my iPhone a fair bit where it was stable & okay last night. Could be a million things and possibly a roon issue. Weird but that’s hifi for you! 

If you plug your last mile ethernet to b side, it is 100mbps port.

it gives best sound quality but not the best network speed, many streamer ethernet ports are designed at 1000 speed and will be impacted 

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9 minutes ago, ikhuong said:

If you plug your last mile ethernet to b side, it is 100mbps port.

it gives best sound quality but not the best network speed, many streamer ethernet ports are designed at 1000 speed and will be impacted 

Thanks. That makes sense. 
 

I just read you can run either a or b side to the streamer and the benefit just comes from running the signal from a to b or vice versa. Are they the same - does a and b outputs sound the same? 

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20 minutes ago, Jhsg said:

I just read you can run either a or b side to the streamer and the benefit just comes from running the signal from a to b or vice versa. Are they the same - does a and b outputs sound the same? 

Correct, the benefit comes from crossing the "moat".  If you use B to A, be careful on what you connect on the A side. You do not want to reintroduce noise which the ER has reduced.

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7 hours ago, Jhsg said:

Thanks. That makes sense. 
 

I just read you can run either a or b side to the streamer and the benefit just comes from running the signal from a to b or vice versa. Are they the same - does a and b outputs sound the same? 

If your upstream ethernet goes to B-end and streamer’s ethernet goes to A-end,  the bottleneck is still at 100 speed of the B-port, sound quality will be the same as signal has been passed through a “moat” which is a kind of galvanic isolation chip ( i think opto-isolator). if you plug all of them in a-end to maintain 1000 speed, you will disable the intended galvanic isolation design of Etherregen, 

 

upon reading around , i found the reason many highend streamers cannot implement 1000 speed with galvanic isolation because of the current technology, there is no opto-isolator on the market capable to pass 1000 speed

 

if you are still want to go full steam with Ethergeren without scarifying speed performance, It might not necessary but can look for streamers with 100 speed network port design , all MSB Dac and network  modules are designed to work with 100 only and have opto isolator as well.

 

 

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Thanks for the guidance. 
 

I emptied the photo cache and reinstalled the app on my phone. Seems to be working fine now. Strange that it started misbehaving after I put the etherregen in the chain. 

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blacker blacks

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Figure 17. Pixel level pictures, side by side. Left to right: Amazon Cable Matters Cat6a, Blue Jeans Certified Cat6a, AudioQuest Cinnamon Cat7, AudioQuest Vodka Cat7, Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy CryoSilver Cat8+.

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I’ve happily had the EtherRegen since the second batch and it has its own Farad3 Power supply and Sablon ethernet downstream to an ultraRendu. Upstream it is attached via Blue Jeans CAT6a to a wireless repeater wirelessly connected to my main router.

 

So the EtherRegen is not attached to my main router, only to a wireless repeater.

 

Could I expect an improvement by replacing the ethernet connection between the upstream wireless repeater, with an optical connection to the EtherRegen?

 

And is it simply a matter of getting the Sonore Opticalmodule and connecting this with the Sonore optical cable and two SFP modules into the B side of the UtraRendu? 
 

Is that all there is to it?

 

Also I understand that different SFP modules have different sound quality. Are the Sonore ones the best or are there better alternatives, like the https://planetechusa.com/product/mgb-tlx-mini-gbic-lx-module-20km/

 

Any experience and advice appreciated.

Edited by HumanMedia
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1 hour ago, HumanMedia said:

I’ve happily had the EtherRegen since the second batch and it has its own Farad3 Power supply and Sablon ethernet downstream to an ultraRendu. Upstream it is attached via Blue Jeans CAT6a to a wireless repeater wirelessly connected to my main router.

 

So the EtherRegen is not attached to my main router, only to a wireless repeater.

 

Could I expect an improvement by replacing the ethernet connection between the upstream wireless repeater, with an optical connection to the EtherRegen?

 

And is it simply a matter of getting the Sonore Opticalmodule and connecting this with the Sonore optical cable and two SFP modules into the B side of the UtraRendu? 
 

Is that all there is to it?

 

Also I understand that different SFP modules have different sound quality. Are the Sonore ones the best or are there better alternatives, like the https://planetechusa.com/product/mgb-tlx-mini-gbic-lx-module-20km/

 

Any experience and advice appreciated.

I have fiber upstream in place bw EtherRegen and Telstra cable modem with opticalmodule  as Media converter

my ideology is that 100% fiber isolation in stopping leakage current only makes things better or equally to copper, not worse. The copper to upstream might open an opportunity for leakage current in some setup or some extreme long/old in-wall ethernet which is degraded over time, or you never know,


 From my understanding at work, optic sfps have dozen  brands but only a handy of OEM (two or three worldwide) in optic manufacturing industry, main differences are on after sale support, RMA or some special proprietary/driver support on big brands such as Juniper or Cisco which same design, different labels with 5 times more expensive, their rrp are jacked up multiple times  so they can offer special deal to business together with routers/switches purchase

 

for home usage, go for MM sfp as they are generally safer to eye if anyone is ever curious and look into the fiber cores (ex: kids, pets). SM SFP use laser light, don’t buy the Long range version as the signal would be very strong, even most are classified as Class 1 optics, looking into a operational optics or fibers are not recommended.

 

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34 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Also I understand that different SFP modules have different sound quality. 

Am using these SFPs, suggestion from Uptone forum and can order locally

https://www.fs.com/au/products/75327.html

Feeding ER is one of these

https://cplonline.com.au/networking/routers/ubiquiti-er-x-sfp-edgerouter-x-6port-au.html

Have not experimented much more but I know that @RussB is also using an Optical Rendu.

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@HumanMedia

I suggest:

 

1. replace telstra router with Ubiquiti Edgerouter X SFP (or MicroTik equivalent)

 

2. Reconfig telstra router or the  repeater as wifi access point, or get an access point (eg. TP link are lowish cost).

 

3. Run fibre from EdgeRouter to ER.

 

4. Put LPS on Edgerouter (ideally power conditioner too).

 

Afterdark audio has an 'audiophile' SFP.  I use them but am yet to compare to the equivalent stock one.

 

If you don't use a router with SFP, a Sonore OM is not necessary but likely better than IT media converters.

 

BTW, try removing all from Side A that is not essential - connect them to router instead.

Edited by dbastin
auto correct typos fixed
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8 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

 

Also I understand that different SFP modules have different sound quality. Are the Sonore ones the best or are there better alternatives, like the https://planetechusa.com/product/mgb-tlx-mini-gbic-lx-module-20km/

 

I am running these Planetech SFPs in both my Edgerouter to OM and OM to Etherregen A-side paths.   I found them to produce a less closed in sound than the Tp-Link SFPs I originally purchased from Sonore, consistent with what I had read about others’ experiences.  It would be interesting to compare the Planettech SFPs with the audiophile ones @dbastin is using.  

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26 minutes ago, RussB said:

I am running these Planetech SFPs in both my Edgerouter to OM and OM to Etherregen A-side paths.   I found them to produce a less closed in sound than the Tp-Link SFPs I originally purchased from Sonore, consistent with what I had read about others’ experiences.  It would be interesting to compare the Planettech SFPs with the audiophile ones @dbastin is using.  

Ahh huge thanks RussB!

Yes those particular SFPs were recommended by the guy who designs the Taiko Servers who compared a few

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

 

Where did you get yours? Locally or from Planettech?

And what are your thoughts on my situation and if you think there is payoff in going optical for the first leg?

 

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8 hours ago, dbastin said:

Afterdark audio has an 'audiophile' SFP.  I use them but am yet to compare to the equivalent stock one.

 

Afterdark Audio has two Cisco CN8ID42AAA transciever modules (USD$65ea new, around a quarter of that s/h), some Commscope fibre LC-to-LC (ooooo $30 if you're unlucky) and some EMI shielding tape on bits of the transcievers (don't tell Cisco, and it's priceless). For this (consdiering they'd be purchasing wholesale and the above are retail prices) they charge a decent margin and call it 'audiophile'?

 

Don't get me wrong - it's a nice transciever module.

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FYI I just noticed an new Sonore opticalModule Deluxe on their site, it appears it adds support for 100 speed networks but that appears to the the only change, rest of the specs are the same save being in a larger box. EtherRegen is locked to 1000 on the SFP so it wont benefit, unless there are other performance optimisations that haven't been mentioned...

 

http://www.sonore.us/opticalModule-Deluxe.html

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41 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

FYI I just noticed an new Sonore opticalModule Deluxe on their site, it appears it adds support for 100 speed networks but that appears to the the only change, rest of the specs are the same save being in a larger box. EtherRegen is locked to 1000 on the SFP so it wont benefit, unless there are other performance optimisations that haven't been mentioned...

 

http://www.sonore.us/opticalModule-Deluxe.html

Finally they released the 100 speed support version, their original opticalRendu only supports 1000 speed and this limited themselves to work with many network streamers which have 100 ethernet port. I contacted Sonore to inquire about 100 speed support and was advised to wait for new version of OM, it is about 2 months ago and I decided to go for Etherregen 

 

I don’t think any sonic difference tbh but it is a bit more expensive than original OM.
 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

Where did you get yours? Locally or from Planettech?

And what are your thoughts on my situation and if you think there is payoff in going optical for the first leg?


I initially tried to source them locally from businesses that import from Planetech but this was unsuccessful.  I ended up buying directly from Planetech and using Shopmate to ship to me in Australia.

 

Dont forget you will need a psu for the OM. A good quality linear one made a difference in my system.   So the overall cost of this upgrade can add up. You will need to use a fibre cable to suit the Planetech SFP which is not compatible with fibre sold by Sonore for the TP-Link SFP.  But otherwise, to answer your earlier question, yes it is that simple.  
 

I am using optical to prevent electrical noise from server and router passing downstream.  Not sure if it would make a difference in your case in link from Etherregen to your wireless repeater.   I’d recommend trying fibre in that location if you can before buying.  Is it possible to put a lpsu on your repeater or does it need to plug straight into AC outlet?

 

 

Edited by RussB
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1 hour ago, RussB said:


I initially tried to source them locally from businesses that import from Planetech but this was unsuccessful.  I ended up buying directly from Planetech and using Shopmate to ship to me in Australia.

 

Dont forget you will need a psu for the OM. A good quality linear one made a difference in my system.   So the overall cost of this upgrade can add up. You will need to use a fibre cable to suit the Planetech SFP which is not compatible with fibre sold by Sonore for the TP-Link SFP.  But otherwise, to answer your earlier question, yes it is that simple.  
 

I am using optical to prevent electrical noise from server and router passing downstream.  Not sure if it would make a difference in your case in link from Etherregen to your wireless repeater.   I’d recommend trying fibre in that location if you can before buying.  Is it possible to put a lpsu on your repeater or does it need to plug straight into AC outlet?

 

 

Huge thanks for this. I will go this route as well. What is the type of cable needed for the PlanetTech, did you source it from them as well?

 

Wireless repeater already has a 12V Linear supply on it. Plus I have a couple of 5V linear supplies free so the CIAudio one will likely work well with the OM.  I wonder if this OM Deluxe has any further optimisations over the standard unit. Off to the SonicOrbitor forum to see if anything is mentioned...

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1 hour ago, HumanMedia said:

Huge thanks for this. I will go this route as well. What is the type of cable needed for the PlanetTech, did you source it from them as well?

 

Wireless repeater already has a 12V Linear supply on it. Plus I have a couple of 5V linear supplies free so the CIAudio one will likely work well with the OM.  I wonder if this OM Deluxe has any further optimisations over the standard unit. Off to the SonicOrbitor forum to see if anything is mentioned...

Good stuff re psus. 

 

I am using the fibre cable below from fs.com who ship locally and seem to offer very good service.  I've read reports of fibre brand and quality making a difference to sound quality, but haven't researched this yet.  However, I gather it is less critical than the choice of SFP, associated media converter device and psu.  The bend insensitive one below seemed to be the better of the two compatible offerings from fs.com, but I don't really know if it would make a difference over the other fs offering.  Both are cheap anyway.

LC-LC UPC OS2 Single Mode BIF Fibre Patch Lead, 0.12dB IL, Duplex 1m #68294

 

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On 19/10/2020 at 11:11 AM, RussB said:

Good stuff re psus. 

 

I am using the fibre cable below from fs.com who ship locally and seem to offer very good service.  I've read reports of fibre brand and quality making a difference to sound quality, but haven't researched this yet.  However, I gather it is less critical than the choice of SFP, associated media converter device and psu.  The bend insensitive one below seemed to be the better of the two compatible offerings from fs.com, but I don't really know if it would make a difference over the other fs offering.  Both are cheap anyway.

LC-LC UPC OS2 Single Mode BIF Fibre Patch Lead, 0.12dB IL, Duplex 1m #68294

 

 

OpticalModule ordered.

PlanetTech SFPs ordered (I dearly hope they are the correct ones. - what part number are yours?)

Will order this cable too.

 

I noticed that the PlanetTech are rated for 20kms, will I need attenuators or similar? No chance of burning out the SFP?

 

I am a bit nervous about all of this as I am so new to it.

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4 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

I am a bit nervous about all of this as I am so new to it.

Too late, you have jumped into the rabbit hole!  🤣 

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Here's some helpful tips I got from Ubiquiti community and Support pages to get EdgeRouter up and running.  It probably took me about 15-30 minutes and I am a novice.

 

 

Basic setup guide can be found here

Crosstalk Solutions tutorial videos can be found here

 

Access the router

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001016814-EdgeRouter-How-to-Access-the-EdgeRouter

 

Run the Basic Wizard 

 

Most NBN services are DHCP based where no credentials are required for authority.

DHCP is the most common and is the default setup.

Connect your Edgerouter and set up the WAN as a DHCP connection.

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/204952254-EdgeRouter-DHCP-Server

 

It will be necessary to take the brave step of removing your existing router and repacing it with the EdgeRouter.

 

I also followed this, and other links it provided.

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002531728-EdgeRouter-Beginners-Guide-to-EdgeRouter

 

These may also be useful

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/205146110-EdgeRouter-How-to-Upgrade-the-EdgeOS-Firmware

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/217990978-EdgeRouter-Configure-an-EdgeRouter-as-a-Layer-2-Switch

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/204976244-EdgeRouter-Ubiquiti-Device-Discovery

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016435194-Intro-to-Networking-Fiber-Optic-Cable-and-Transceiver-Types

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/204959574-EdgeRouter-SFP-SFP-and-DAC-Compatibility-List

 

I hope this helps.

Edited by dbastin
Fixed weird formatting
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Thank you Saint Dbastin!

 

This really helps. I was a hairs breadth away from going the Ubiquiti route and this is invaluable to those that do. I wish there were a similar collection of knowledge links for the Sonore OpticalModule. There was a discussion forum at AS for it, but that has all been locked to push people over to the dedicated SonicOrbitor forums, which hasn’t really taken off and there is still very little there. The dedicated EtherRegen forum at AS has a smattering of OpticalModule information, but no index to it all as you have just provided.

 

 

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Apparently this SFP is well regarded too ...

Startech SFP1000ZXST 1550nm/80km transceivers

 

Perhaps contribute your experirnces here ...

 

 

 

Edited by dbastin
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Hey everyone 

 

I’m listing my SOTM dCBL-CAT7 if anyone is interested? It’s expensive but top end. PM if keen. 

9BB702D1-B726-4D21-BCC0-2E5A3538966D.jpeg

81CAD600-8456-4061-9114-9783F96DA017.jpeg

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On 22/10/2020 at 2:41 PM, HumanMedia said:

 

OpticalModule ordered.

PlanetTech SFPs ordered (I dearly hope they are the correct ones. - what part number are yours?)

Will order this cable too.

 

I noticed that the PlanetTech are rated for 20kms, will I need attenuators or similar? No chance of burning out the SFP?

 

I am a bit nervous about all of this as I am so new to it.


Nice work!  The link you had to Planetech SFPs is correct.  Part number MGB-TLX(V2).  I don’t believe you need an attenuator.  I haven’t had any issues without one.  Did you suss any more about differences between the versions of the OM?

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10 hours ago, RussB said:


Nice work!  The link you had to Planetech SFPs is correct.  Part number MGB-TLX(V2).  I don’t believe you need an attenuator.  I haven’t had any issues without one.  Did you suss any more about differences between the versions of the OM?

Phew about the SFPs.

 

I did ask about the opticalModule Deluxe at the SonicOrbiter forum and all Jesus from Sonore said is that they are very similar but the deluxe has a better circuit board layout.

This is necessary for having all connectors on one side, BUT what I do know about John Swenson is that he always optimises the circuit layouts for lower noise, so I guess that will be a spin-off. Plus it will undoubtedly run a little cooler. These are both assumptions on my part, although it’s a good bet that this will be correct. The new flow control is only needed because it supports 100/1000 and is not needed on the non-deluxe.

 

 

 

Edited by HumanMedia
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EtherRegen vibration control, what do people use? Especially anything that made an obvious difference.?

 

I was just catching up on the AS EtherRegen thread where John Swenson talks about his vibration control rig. He asserts that timing crystals are sensitive to very low frequency movement, like tectonic oscillations which happen more during the day as the sun moves across the earths surface.

 

As a default I put most components on Herbies elastomer feet, which deal with medium and higher frequency vibrations but not low frequency. Low frequency oscillations are better dealt with by those ball/cup type feet or platforms.

 

What do others use on the EtherRegen that they found have a noticeable effect?

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10 hours ago, RussB said:

  I don’t believe you need an attenuator.


Hells, after reading the fibre discussion that Saint Dbastin linked to above, I’m paranoid again and that I (we) will benefit from attenuators to avoid early burnout and possible improvements in audio quality.

 

More research needed on the sensitivity of the PlanetTech SFPs...

Edited by HumanMedia
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