Jump to content

Snoopy8

Uptone Audio EtherREGEN Owners & Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, dbastin said:

Remind me, what is your basic switch?  When I changed from my old iinet crappy switch to Ubitquiti EdgeSwitch there was a considerable improvement (when using my cabling which is 20x cost of switch).

 

Marcin is onto some magic crystals in the shield ... my query to him is below ...

 

Query:  I am curious about your Ground Conditioner.  Does the 'Advanced shielding' also condition the ground by absorbing or extracting noise somehow from what is being passed in conductors?  Or does your cable simply transfer the noise to the earth, and the shielding just repels any more noise from being transmitted back to the audio gear?

 

Answer:  There is a special quartz powder mixture in the shield which helps to filter the noise.

 

Hahaha... I suspect the truth is he simply creates a star earth circuit to “lift” the ground potential of the attached device(s) thereby helping push away ground noise trying to feed in from other connected devices.  Like a castle wall after the moat ;)

 

My basic switch is a Netgear GS-105

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, dbastin said:

 When I changed from my old iinet crappy switch to Ubitquiti EdgeSwitch there was a considerable improvement (when using my cabling which is 20x cost of switch).

Don't know whether you have seen this

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/57519-uptone-audio-etherregen-listening-impressions/?do=findComment&comment=1047074
Added a Ubiquiti Edgeswicth in front of ER and got an improvement!   You should try and report back.

 

1 hour ago, Stereophilus said:

I have recently swapped in a Gieseler Kraftwerk “Gold Tune” LPSU to feed power to the ER.  Despite not having a true ground connection, this provides a slight improvement in SQ compared to the supplied PSU.  I have also tried an iFi iPower 9V, which I found sounded no different to the supplied PSU.

Pity we have this lockdown.  You could have tried my Gieseler Gold Tune Enhanced, which is grounded.

 

1 hour ago, Stereophilus said:

I also tried with the JCAT ground conditioner removed.  Having done this with the ER vs my basic switch, I can hear definite differences.  The ER allows greater detail and nuance in the music compared to the basic switch.  If I re-insert the JCAT ground conditioner, there is a big improvement overall and no discernible difference between the two switches again.  It seems the JCAT conditioner is the reason I could not hear any differences between ER and the basic switch originally.

If I read this correct, your basic switch + JCAT ground conditioner is better than ER without JCAT ground conditioner.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

If I read this correct, your basic switch + JCAT ground conditioner is better than ER without JCAT ground conditioner.  

Correct.  Bear in mind the JCAT is attached to the EX, ie down-stream from the ER or basic switch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok... just tried AB comparisons of ER feeding CX (with CX feeding EX) vs ER feeding EX (CX attached to A-side).  I tried this previously without the Gieseler, with my preference being ER feeding CX.  The setup is otherwise the same.

 

I’ve gone back and forth for the last hour.  SQ is still much better when the CX feeds the EX directly.  Everything is spaced out more clearly and there is more “ease” to the music flow.  Placing ER between CX and EX (feeding EX from B-side, CX on the A-side) is relatively more blurred and condensed sounding.

 

I might try removing the fibre link again next... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


3 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Added a Ubiquiti Edgeswicth in front of ER and got an improvement!   You should try and report back.

I'm puzzled why the guy is using ER as a media convertor to go from ethernet cable to OpticalRendu  .. what the?  He could use a OpticalModule instead.

 

My network will be ... EdgeRouter X SFP > fibre > EdgeSwitch 10x > fibre > ER > 

ER A Side > Antipodes Server

ER B Side > Devialet Pro 

 

EdgeRouter will also go to another switch for rest of house, and have APs connected to it (PoE).  EdgeSwitch has HT/TV/Oppo etc connected to it, hence fibre isolation from both Router and ER.

 

My ER is just burning in deep in the network (where I can't hear its effect).  I also need to obtain fibre, SFPs and attenuators.  You might wanna follow my exploration/experiment here ...

 

3 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

I suspect the truth is he simply creates a star earth circuit to “lift” the ground potential of the attached device(s) thereby helping push away ground noise trying to feed in from other connected devices

I really think you should try JCAT LAN cable and you might like the magic crystals, and from my experience it will probably reveal a lot more differences than you are hearing with your ABing.

3 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

SQ is still much better when the CX feeds the EX directly.

So maybe Mark Jefferies really is a freakin' genius.  It has crossed my mind to try to install a JCAT NET Card in my Antipodes Edge to kinda have the benefit of a 2nd 'audiophile' switch (well its a bridge, same outcome though), and get a direct link to endpoint like CX/EX.  I recall some Innous have a network bridge, whereas Antipodes has advised me EX/CX/DX3 have a switch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, dbastin said:

Marcin is onto some magic crystals in the shield

 

21 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

Hahaha

I was being partly humorous and partly serious ...

Just as an aside on ground cables ... some time ago I came across Gutwire, who now make 3 grades of ground cable, and according to Paul Rigbys reseaech ...

 

the Gutwire cable does use high quality copper and is covered by Mylar Metallic braid shielding. 

The design also uses rare earth elements such as Germanium to help with the elimination of various noise. More recent additional elements include Amethyst and Binchotan.

 

Magic crystals ...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanium

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amethyst

 

And magic charcoal ..

 

https://abcharcoal.wixsite.com/abcharcoal/single-post/2016/10/19/What-is-Binchotan-Charcoal

 

The key advantage of Binchotan is that its electrical conductivity is excellent ... Making it very suitable for Electromagnetic (EM) Wave reduction.

 

I suspect the likes of Acoustic Revive, Akiko, Entreq and Shunyata tinker with similar things.

 

Its as believable as saying ethernet is just 0s and 1s data and has no impact on sound quality.

 

Are you still laughing?

Edited by dbastin
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, dbastin said:

 

I was being partly humorous and partly serious...

 

Magic crystals ...

 

And magic charcoal ..

 

Are you still laughing?

Yes, I am.  At the word “magic”.  There is nothing magical about the effects of crystals or conductors or insulators.  Also at the way we can be drawn into accepting such simplistic terminology when a more thorough explanation is warranted.  A criticism I level at Marcin, not yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, dbastin said:

I suspect the likes od Acoustic Revive, Akiko, Entreq and Shunyata tinker with similar things.

 

Its as believable as saying ethernet is just 0s and 1s data and has no impact on sound quality.

 

Are you still laughing?

No just smiling.  I have 3 Acoustic Revive RLI-1 Lan Isolators.  From memory I think they include Amethyst. 

 

 

To some it is not about magic per se.  Some people consider that different Crystals have influences that they can lock into.  They do take crystals very seriously  Maybe its about the respective sensitivity of each individual.  I am not particularly sensitive or aware of any energy from my crystals.  I have numerous crystals because I find many are very beautiful to look at both colour wise and structure.

 

 

I have a friend who is uncomfortable being near a large piece of Amethyst that I have in my living room.  I have mentioned crystals before.  Each time there has been some  humorous mockery.  I do not expect that this time will be different.  

 

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Posted (edited)

The humor I saw was that Marcin may as well have used the term 'magic crystals' ... his response seemed as mysterious as magic.

 

I have found Marcin quite helpful, and his products are very respectable.

 

I am sure there is plenty of support for the benefits and effects of crystals.  I respect that even if I dont understand it.

 

Sorry if my humor offended anyone.

 

To clarify my intent was to highlight the crystals in the ground cables mentioned  are as effective as using 'audiophile" ethernet.  And some will resist accepting/beleiving either are beneficial. 

 

I am tempted to use one of those ground cables between my Synergistic Research Ground Block (passive) and wall.

 

Anyhow, we digress. Maybe I'll start a thread about 'grounding for audio', it could be quite topical, if it doesn't get banished to the Great Audio Debate.

Edited by dbastin
typo, again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, dbastin said:

The humor I saw was that Marcin may as well have used the term 'magic crystals' ... his response seemed as mysterious as magic.

 

I have found Marcin quite helpful, and his products are very respectable.

 

I am sure there is plenty of support for the benefits and effects of crystals.  I respect that even if I dont understand it.

 

Sorry if my humor offended anyone.

 

To clarify my intent was to highlight the crystals in the ground cables mentioned  are as effective as using 'audiophile" ethernet.  And some will resist accepting/beleiving either are beneficial. 

 

I am tempted to use one of those ground cables between my Synergistic Research Ground Block (passive) and wall.

 

Anyhow, we digress. Maybe I'll start a thread about 'grounding for audio', it could be quite topical if it does get banished to the Great Audio Debate.

The topic has veered off a bit ......in any case if one has to "accept" and "invest" on high priced grounding box such as entreq or nordost units - and related grounding cables equally high priced - to get "audible" effect from a $ 600/- EthernetRegen - hello :) ....are we pursuing high fidelity or being blatantly gullible for marketing activities ? If your speaker / units has "so much" excess RF to cause performance concern - well then its time to invest on some good quality equipment / units as against grounding wire / box's! as practically all grouding wires would do the "same job, with same results". - well IMHO :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GingerDXB said:

The topic has veered off a bit ......

Agreed.  Let's get back to topic please...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Agreed. Sorry, I kinda caused that, partly for some related humor however the influence of grounding ER is quite on topic.

 

@Stereophilus, your experience with your Netgear switch and ground cable would be of interest to those reading 'Ethernet Switches for Audio: Part B" if you could post there. It might start debate about grounding ... if it does I'll create a thread where that debate to happen.

 

I note you Netgear swith + JCAT Ground cost about the same as ER.  Your experience tells me:

 

- ER ground is already dealt with very well by ERs design

 

- the JCAT Ground cable price reflects the sound quality it can facilitate with some products (eg. those with poor ground design or deal with ground poorly).

 

BTW I gather tha many JCAT products are aimed at yeilding better results from high end PC servers - eg. ground cable connects to NET and USB Cards. 

Edited by dbastin
clarification

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


7 hours ago, dbastin said:

 the JCAT Ground cable price reflects the sound quality it can facilitate with some products (eg. those that deal with poor ground design).

 

How do you figure this?

 

Appears to be a fairly simple ground shunt.

 

Anything running switching power stages - which includes every PC or PC-based design or anything interfacing related infrastructure (USB, Ethernet) - will likely benefit.

 

What's it cost? There's a few dollars of connectors, wire and plug in there but not much. Easy to make if you can get a sparkien to tag it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm, here we go, again ...

And its counterpart ...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, rmpfyf said:

How do you figure this?

Umm, I made an error so have corrected my text which I meant to say ..

 

"the JCAT Ground cable price reflects the sound quality it can facilitate with some products (eg. those with poor ground design or deal with ground poorly)."

 

JCAT ground cable (€500) + Netgear switch (AU$50) = about AU$900 = SQ of EtherRegen (US$640/AU$1000).

 

It is notable that the JCAT cable (with its special quartz mixture in sheild) can make a very low cost switch have same or better SQ than Swensons carefully designed ER and its ground.

 

I am assuming @Stereophilus considers the JCAT an improvement over a basic ground wire, which I recall he does.  Again, it might depend on how revealing the ethernet cables are.

 

And its interesting that such a good ground wire cant improve on the ER ground.  It suggests there is limit on how much noise can be removed via ground.

Edited by dbastin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, dbastin said:

Umm, I made an error so have corrected my text which I meant to say ..

 

"the JCAT Ground cable price reflects the sound quality it can facilitate with some products (eg. those with poor ground design or deal with ground poorly)."

 

JCAT ground cable (€500) + Netgear switch (AU$50) = about AU$900 = SQ of EtherRegen (US$640/AU$1000).

 

Its a notable that the JCAT cable (eith its special quartz mixture in sheild) can make a very low cost switch have same or better SQ than Swensons carefully designed ER and its ground.

 

I am assuming @Stereophilus considers the JCAT an improvement over a basic ground wire, which I recall he does.  Again, it might depend on how revealing the ethernet cables are.

 

And its interesting that such a good ground wire cant improve on the ER ground.  It suggests there is limit on how much noise can be removed via ground.

 

I'd go this way. 

 

Almost any device that has Ethernet, USB etc will have switching power supplies inside. An Intel Core CPU will, if left to it's own devices, switch C/P states over 300k times in 5 minutes. That's switching territory, no LPS is going to keep up with voltage states changed so fast and so often. What often spits out system voltages for USB and Ethernet subsystems... equally switching. Even if you control C/P states on your CPU rigorously you'd need a very heavily edited BIOS to boot and run such a CPU off a linear PSU.

 

(As an aside if I was going custom without severe digital knowledge I'd build a streamer using an ARM processor, which your Devialet uses I think. I would not include other power-aggressive stuff, like WiFi and PLC, which your Devialet might.) 

 

So switching supplies are here to stay, even if there's a great whacking LPS on the feed end of things with a mega slew rate etc. Shunting ground to earth is a pretty common strategy for dealing with 'there's a switching mode supply in my system'. 

 

Particularly with Ethernet you have a ton of inducted sh*t coming in on the line from routing around your home and whatever the switch it comes off is dealing with. There is no surprise that putting a very ground-reduced switch with one port on a galvanically-isolated route has comparable results to a ground shunt. They attack the same problem similarly.  Most people are on isolated USB routes anyway so we can assume that's not a thing.

 

You would need a spare Ethernet port to make it stick though, or access to your ground. It will work in your Devialet if you can hack the grounds in lieu of spare ports. 

 

And EUR500 is a joke. There is no amount of sparkle dust that makes that expensive. $100 counting a sparkie's time and you can have it at mains conductor diameters and industrial shields if you like. There are local people that could do a better version for >$250 retail counting their time, better engineering and local fairy dust.

 

Damn, I'm in the wrong business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


PLEASE, no more off topic posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

PLEASE, no more off topic posts.

 

Let me bring it back OT.

 

Can anyone with access to an ER and a JCAT grounding thingy plug the latter into the A side of the ER and report back as to what they hear?

 

Would be curious to understand what the relative advantages are in 'Ethernet coming into the ER has a ton of bad stuff' vs 'the way Ethernet is implemented in my PC/streamer is a ton of bad stuff'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

 

Let me bring it back OT.

 

Can anyone with access to an ER and a JCAT grounding thingy plug the latter into the A side of the ER and report back as to what they hear?

 

Would be curious to understand what the relative advantages are in 'Ethernet coming into the ER has a ton of bad stuff' vs 'the way Ethernet is implemented in my PC/streamer is a ton of bad stuff'.

I can do this... but can I get some specifics?  Remembering the JCAT has a USB and RJ45 plugs... I should unplug both these ends from my renderer, and instead, just plug the RJ45 into the A-side of the ER, leaving the USB plug free?

 

In effect this would be asking me to compare ground cabling on Renderer vs ground cabling on ER.

 

Or, should I leave the USB end plugged into the renderer in both scenarios?  Would this create a ground loop?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Stereophilus said:

I can do this... but can I get some specifics?  Remembering the JCAT has a USB and RJ45 plugs... I should unplug both these ends from my renderer, and instead, just plug the RJ45 into the A-side of the ER, leaving the USB plug free?

 

In effect this would be asking me to compare ground cabling on Renderer vs ground cabling on ER.

 

Or, should I leave the USB end plugged into the renderer in both scenarios?  Would this create a ground loop?

Assuming you've a view of what your rig sounds like with just your USB plugged/unplugged, then leave it out and proceed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

PLEASE, no more off topic posts.

I've cut and paste discussion about ground to Parts A and B of the new Ground for Audio threads where discussion unrelated to ER can continue.

 

I'd say discission about grounding ER is on topic in this thread, although it was wandering from that course.

 

But please feel free to correct me.  For instance:

 

Is discussing if ER will benefit from grounding on topic?

 

When my ER is finished burned in enough I intend to try it grounded to a wall outlet, and to my Synergistic Research Ground Block, to see if either benefit ER in my system.  Would it be on topic to share my observations?

Edited by dbastin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, dbastin said:

I've cut and paste discussion about ground to Parts A and B of the new Ground for Audio threads where discussion unrelated to ER can continue.

 

I'd say discission about grounding ER is on topic in this thread, although it was wandering from that course.

 

But please feel free to correct me.  For instance:

 

Is discussing if ER will benefit from grounding on topic?

 

When my ER is finished burned in enough I intend to try it grounded to a wall outlet, and to my Synergistic Research Ground Block, to see if either benefit ER in my system.  Would it be on topic to share my observations?

No issue if ER is discussed. Thank you for creating the other Grounding threads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, rmpfyf said:

Assuming you've a view of what your rig sounds like with just your USB plugged/unplugged, then leave it out and proceed.

I tried this last night, quite late tho.  I need to try it again tonight to confirm what i am hearing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I note the manual states noise from ground will not pass over the ADIM.  Some noise may pass between the A side ports, even though ER design attempts to minimise this and requires connection to ground either via the ground screw or power supply in which the ground is not floated. (such as the PSU supplied with the ER).

 

This is why I intend to connect to the rest of my network with fibre, to isolate both A and B Sides from the noise in the network - well, that's the theory, some noise might still get in via the cables depending on what cable is used, and already exist in the audio gear if it is not grounded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/05/2020 at 10:56 PM, rmpfyf said:

Assuming you've a view of what your rig sounds like with just your USB plugged/unplugged, then leave it out and proceed.

The simple answer is there is no difference if the JCAT ground conditioner is attached to the ER, or the renderer (EX), or indeed the DAC.

 

I have delayed responding as I have found SQ improving even without the JCAT plugged in... Really improving... my suspicion is that the “barely used” second hand Gieseler Gold tune LPSU is burning in still.  I don’t want want to overcommit to comparing while this is happening.  Please disregard my previous statements about SQ until I can say the LPSU is stabilised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Classifieds Statistics


    Currently Active Ads

    Total Sales (Since 2018)

    Total Sales Value (Last 14 Days)

    Total Ads Value (Since March 2020)
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...