Uptone Audio EtherREGEN Owners & Discussion Thread

[dbastin]

4 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

the Taiko designer and the reviewer still prefer to have a specific EtherRegen configuration between the Taiko and downstream player streamer.

I agree ... I currently use ER upstream of Antipodes EX (as Roon Core server) and Gigafoil v4 in between EX and Devialet Pro as Roon Ready renderer.

 

I felt the Gigafoil has the best result in that location, even compared to ER in that location.  But since then I have improved router set up quite a bit so will try swapping ER and Gigafoil.  However I suspect Gigafoil will be best, and the reason ER with fibre was preferred by reviewers is due to the fibre isolation.

 

Currently my Gigafoil is just using ifi iPowerX into the noisy house circuit, rather than via my power conditioner and dedicated power circuit.  I need a US adapter for the ipower to insert into the conditioner.

Edited October 26, 2020 by dbastin

[dbastin]

4 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

using a Cable Matters CAT8 on my B-side ...  was night and day worse than a CAT6a. 

Yes, the Cables do matter.  With Gigafoil between EX and Devialet, as good as Gigafoil is, changing upstream connection from Wireworld Platinum to JCAT Signature provided again in SQ.

 

So currently that link is EX - JCAT Sig - Gigafoil - Synergistic Research X Reference (grounded to Ground Box) - Devialet.

 

Both ER and Gigafoil awkwardly sit on a SR Tranquility Pod, which provides further gains.

 

There's alot of gains to be realised before spending €25k on a server!  My SQ from Tidal is shockly good, my SSD and its cables are presently removed from EX.

[ikhuong]

On 23/10/2020 at 6:22 PM, Jhsg said:

Hey everyone 

 

I’m listing my SOTM dCBL-CAT7 if anyone is interested? It’s expensive but top end. PM if keen. 

What are u upgrading too? Did ethernet cable make difference in your system?

To me etherregen contributes much more noticeable improvement 

Edited October 26, 2020 by ikhuong

[Jhsg]

13 minutes ago, ikhuong said:

What are u upgrading too? Did ethernet cable make difference in your system?

To me etherregen contributes much more noticeable improvement 

 

Hi mate, 

 

The SOTM cable definetely made a difference - made the soundstage a little tighter and wider. Unfortunately it wasnt long enough and forced me to have the EtherRegen hanging behind my cabinet which isn't ideal. I havent yet but will probably buy another one that is slightly longer. Fortunately the short SOTM cable that you've quoted in your message sold on here within about 15 mins and i didnt lose out as I often do

 

Cheers, 

 

John 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Jhsg

[BioBrian]

On 03/09/2020 at 3:15 PM, dbastin said:

How did you put LPS on nbn box, my nbn box seems to have multiple voltages from the look of its power inlet plug.

 

Edited September 3 by dbastin

 

I didn't see a reply to your question above.

 

Mine has the same (or similar) plug, but the cable has only 2 elements: +12V and ground.

 

I use an LPS with it.

 

When I went near them with a portable radio, both the NTD and the NBN cable caused horrible screechy noises.

 

I can think of a few reasons why they chose this connector:

 

- It's hard to accidentally remove, and will not fall out, like the barrel ones can do

- It would stop people plugging in any random wall wart from the drawer, with not enough current (mine needs 2A)

- Would have better current share with more contacts?

 

Great thread, thanks - keep up the good work, all.

Edited November 5, 2020 by BioBrian
drawing drawers from the drawer

[ppsa]

Just hoping to gain some knowledge if anyone could help.

 

I am curious about adding a ER to my setup but don't know if I will be getting any benefit from this addition. My source is a disc transport/streamer/rooncore all in one unit and all my music is stored in a SSD which is directly attached to it. So the current internet signalflow is like this: NBN box --> TP-Link router -->(cat6 ethernet cable 15m) to the unit. 

 

thanks in advance for any input. 

[Jhsg]

2 minutes ago, ppsa said:

Just hoping to gain some knowledge if anyone could help.

 

I am curious about adding a ER to my setup but don't know if I will be getting any benefit from this addition. My source is a disc transport/streamer/rooncore all in one unit and all my music is stored in a SSD which is directly attached to it. So the current internet signalflow is like this: NBN box --> TP-Link router -->(cat6 ethernet cable 15m) to the unit. 

 

thanks in advance for any input. 

Only one way to find out mate.

 

It made a remarkable difference in my system and I haven’t seen many people say it hasn’t helped but YMMV.  

[ppsa]

1 minute ago, Jhsg said:

Only one way to find out mate.

 

It made a remarkable difference in my system and I haven’t seen many people say it hasn’t helped but YMMV.  

thanks mate. hopefully one comes up for sale soon.

[Jhsg]

Just now, ppsa said:

thanks mate. hopefully one comes up for sale soon.

 

No worries.. 

 

What is the makeup of the remainder of your system? The general rule Ive learnt in this journey is the better your system the more you notice small improvements like the regen.. the regen will not improve things more than a better amp / pre amp / speakers / sub but once you start getting your main rig sorted out things like the regen and better cables start making noticeable and worthwhile differences. I wouldn’t go near a regen or expensive cables etc until you have the remainder of your setup at a decent level. 

 

Just my 2c - others may have different views.. 

 

 

 

[dbastin]

@ppsa

In your situation, try this ... get some music playing from the SSD and then simply unplug the ethernet cable from the streamer/player (ie. No ethernet wire into streamer).  If you hear an improvement, treating you network to some upgrades would probably help.  You might be quite satisfied with 2 x media convertors linked by fibre and a very good ethernet cable for last link from media convertor to your streamer.  Or dive in deeper.

 

I agree with @Jhsg, to the extent that the quality of your system will dictate how much of any upgrades to ethernet can be appreciated.

 

But it is likely all upgrades to network will yeild SQ improvements, but only as much as the system will reveal.  For example, $1k upgrade will provide benefits to a mid range system, however $3k might not provide much more.  Whereas more of the value of $3k network upgrade would be appreciated in a higher end system.

 

You'll need to experiment with upgrades and your bank balance just like any other upgrades.

Edited October 26, 2020 by dbastin

[ppsa]

2 minutes ago, dbastin said:

@ppsa

In your situation, try thus ... get some music playing and then simply unplug the ethernet cable from the streamer/player (ie. No ethernet wire into streamer).  If you hear an improvement, treating you network to some upgrades would probably help.  You might be quite satisfied with 2 x media convertors linked by fibre and a very good ethernet cable for last link from media convertor to your streamer.  Or dive in deeper.

 

I agree with @Jhsg, to the extent that the quality of your system will dictate how much of any upgrades to ethernet can be appreciated.

 

But it is likely all upgrades to network will yeild SQ improvements, but only as much as the system will reveal.  For example, $1k upgrade will provide benefits to a mid range system, however $3k might not provide much more.  Whereas more of the value of $3k network upgrade would be appreciated in a higher end system.

 

You'll need to experiment with upgrades and your bank balance just like any other upgrades.

Thanks Dale. It make absolute sense to me. The higher of the level of gears you have the better revelling power it makes. I shall do the experiments you've mentioned above and to see if any increase of SQ is perceivable.  Never thought you can unplug the network cable while music is playing. 

Cheers

 

[dbastin]

2 hours ago, ppsa said:

Never thought you can unplug the network cable while music is playing. 

In you case, network is probably only for firmware updates and roon control.  There is no audio data being transmitted over the network, so it will play.

 

And for that matter, if you can playback and control without network, then disconnect the ethernet and the noise it likely injects, and enjoy better SQ at no cost.  Only reconnect when necessary.

 

Roon is a great innovation.  Multiple data sources and playback zones.  However relying on network to communicate and control playback comes at the cost of noise and measures to erradicate it.

 

Finally, you may want to consider putting Roon Core on a device that is separate to the renderer.  It is likely to sound better even just with basic network cables and switches and even better with upgraded network gear.

[ppsa]

6 hours ago, dbastin said:

In you case, network is probably only for firmware updates and roon control.  There is no audio data being transmitted over the network, so it will play.

 

And for that matter, if you can playback and control without network, then disconnect the ethernet and the noise it likely injects, and enjoy better SQ at no cost.  Only reconnect when necessary.

 

Roon is a great innovation.  Multiple data sources and playback zones.  However relying on network to communicate and control playback comes at the cost of noise and measures to erradicate it.

 

Finally, you may want to consider putting Roon Core on a device that is separate to the renderer.  It is likely to sound better even just with basic network cables and switches and even better with upgraded network gear.

Thanks again Dale. This has made me very clear about the view on the ER in my case. 

[ppsa]

Just done the experiment by disconnecting the network cable while the music is playing. I am 100% sure that the SQ is better when the network cable is disconnected. Wow I wasn’t expecting to see this result and couldn’t believe this could affect the sound quality. More upper end details retrieved. More air and sparkles.  Will start to investigate more on this topic. 

[Snoopy8]

3 minutes ago, ppsa said:

Just done the experiment by disconnecting the network cable while the music is playing. I am 100% sure that the SQ is better when the network cable is disconnected. Wow I wasn’t expecting to see this result and couldn’t believe this could affect the sound quality. More upper end details retrieved. More air and sparkles.  Will start to investigate more on this topic. 

Ethernet is convenient for retrieving music from NAS, streaming and last but not least controlling the music with phone or tablet.  But Ethernet introduces noise that affects SQ, even when not in use but cable corrected. Hence, the value of the EtherREGEN to suppress the noise...

[ppsa]

23 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Ethernet is convenient for retrieving music from NAS, streaming and last but not least controlling the music with phone or tablet.  But Ethernet introduces noise that affects SQ, even when not in use but cable corrected. Hence, the value of the EtherREGEN to suppress the noise...

Thanks mate. I guess my next move will be to list out all things needed in order to utilise the full power of the ER. Any suggestions please? 
Thanks 

[dbastin]

22 minutes ago, ppsa said:

Will start to investigate more on this topic. 

Congrats, welcome to the rabbit warren.

 

1st questions to consider:

 

Do I need a network connection?

 

If yes, do I need more than one ethernet connection to audio gear?

 

If not, you dont need an audio grade switch, instead explore isolation.  For instance, a router with SFP to run fibre to a media convertor, and then your best Ethernet wire cable from media convertor to endpoint.  For a lot more dollars, Sonore Optical Module and ER are  a very good media convettors/isolator.

 

If yes, consider connecting gear that is just a data source as far upstream as possible. 

 

If you have more than one player, consider an audio grade switch such as ER or many others at different price points.

 

But when budgetting, be mindful of the cost of good cabling, LPSs and grounding for router, switch, media convertors, isolators, it all counts.

 

Enjoy the journey.

[Snoopy8]

8 minutes ago, ppsa said:

Thanks mate. I guess my next move will be to list out all things needed in order to utilise the full power of the ER. Any suggestions please? 
Thanks 

Start with ER. By itself, it provides a significant SQ improvement. After that, everything else improves in much smaller amounts.  It can be a rabbit Warren that consumes $$$, effort and time. And it does depend on your setup and what your expectations are.

 

Personally, I found that the ER plus an optical link stopping the Ethernet noise, to be sufficient for my needs. Others like Dbastin, RussB have done a lot more experimenting. And there are a few who are content with just an ER.

 

Enjoy the journey...

[ppsa]

17 minutes ago, dbastin said:

Congrats, welcome to the rabbit warren.

 

1st questions to consider:

 

Do I need a network connection?

 

If yes, do I need more than one ethernet connection to audio gear?

 

If not, you dont need an audio grade switch, instead explore isolation.  For instance, a router with SFP to run fibre to a media convertor, and then your best Ethernet wire cable from media convertor to endpoint.  For a lot more dollars, Sonore Optical Module and ER are  a very good media convettors/isolator.

 

If yes, consider connecting gear that is just a data source as far upstream as possible. 

 

If you have more than one player, consider an audio grade switch such as ER or many others at different price points.

 

But when budgetting, be mindful of the cost of good cabling, LPSs and grounding for router, switch, media convertors, isolators, it all counts.

 

Enjoy the journey.

Thanks Dale. I don’t have multiple systems and don’t want to over complicate things. I like to keep it as simple and straightforward as possible. You have mentioned “media converter” and I’m wondering what exactly is a media converter and where can I find one please? 
Cheers

[ppsa]

17 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Start with ER. By itself, it provides a significant SQ improvement. After that, everything else improves in much smaller amounts.  It can be a rabbit Warren that consumes $$$, effort and time. And it does depend on your setup and what your expectations are.

 

Personally, I found that the ER plus an optical link stopping the Ethernet noise, to be sufficient for my needs. Others like Dbastin, RussB have done a lot more experimenting. And there are a few who are content with just an ER.

 

Enjoy the journey...

Thanks again. I had a look at your network signal flow but have a few questions if you don’t mind me asking. How do you connect between your normal internet router to the one with fibre optic output capabilities? And I followed your link to the CPI website which showing an adaptor like item. Do I need to buy a pair of this and insert them to the ports at the back of my normal router and then run fibre optic cables from this adaptors to the ER? 
Sorry to be a pain to ask so many questions. 

[Snoopy8]

7 minutes ago, ppsa said:

Thanks again. I had a look at your network signal flow but have a few questions if you don’t mind me asking. How do you connect between your normal internet router to the one with fibre optic output capabilities? And I followed your link to the CPI website which showing an adaptor like item. Do I need to buy a pair of this and insert them to the ports at the back of my normal router and then run fibre optic cables from this adaptors to the ER? 
Sorry to be a pain to ask so many questions. 

The ER has an Ethernet over Fibre port and requires a small form-factor pluggable (SFP) transceiver. The SFP allows for different speeds, modes etc to cover different distances.  Feeding the ER is a Ubiquity switch write with its own SFP. A fibre optic cable is used to connect the 2 SFPs.  

 

Instead of the cheap Ubiquity switch, others have used Sonore Optical Module etc.  People have also tried different SFPs, cables.

 

Welcome to the rabbit warren!  

 

All of the above is optional. But should you do down this path, you will use a CAT6 cable to connect your router to the Ubiquity. The fibre optical setup provides additional noise reduction but less than what the ER can do on its own.

[dbastin]

2 hours ago, ppsa said:

You have mentioned “media converter” and I’m wondering what exactly is a media converter

I created a thread about fibre because its a subject in itself.

I have recently read people getting improvements to SQ using fibre on the last leg, even with high quality audio grade switches upstream and uber endpoints.  Hence why I suggested to start there.  I use a Gigafoilv4 to achieve this. An ER could be used, for instance ...

 

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X SFP - fibre - ER - best ethernet wire cable - endpoint.

[ppsa]

21 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

The ER has an Ethernet over Fibre port and requires a small form-factor pluggable (SFP) transceiver. The SFP allows for different speeds, modes etc to cover different distances.  Feeding the ER is a Ubiquity switch write with its own SFP. A fibre optic cable is used to connect the 2 SFPs.  

 

Instead of the cheap Ubiquity switch, others have used Sonore Optical Module etc.  People have also tried different SFPs, cables.

 

Welcome to the rabbit warren!  

 

All of the above is optional. But should you do down this path, you will use a CAT6 cable to connect your router to the Ubiquity. The fibre optical setup provides additional noise reduction but less than what the ER can do on its own.

Thank you again. I have learned something today 

will start to do my shopping list soon. 

[ppsa]

20 hours ago, dbastin said:

I created a thread about fibre because its a subject in itself.

I have recently read people getting improvements to SQ using fibre on the last leg, even with high quality audio grade switches upstream and uber endpoints.  Hence why I suggested to start there.  I use a Gigafoilv4 to achieve this. An ER could be used, for instance ...

 

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X SFP - fibre - ER - best ethernet wire cable - endpoint.

 

thanks again Dale.

So my understanding on your way of setup is like: Main internet router(carrier) --> ethernetcable --> Gigafoilv4 --> fibre optic --> media converter --> endpoint. Is that right?

 

Cheers 

[Assisi]

On 26/10/2020 at 9:13 AM, HumanMedia said:

The interesting thing is that along the way the reviewer tried the EtherRegen in the reverse direction with ethernet only, that is ethernet in to the B side and ethernet out of the A side. And he preferred it!?

 

He said that it was a bit less bassy and slightly rougher but had far better dynamics. Of course the final state was the same configuration but with optical, but I thought it very interesting that he preferred the reverse direction with ethernet.

I do not have an EtherRegen.  Just other switches.  I have played around with an optical connection between a variety of switches.  I used only conversion boxes and no actual switch with optical in or out.  My perception is that the optical does provide may be a cleaner difference between no optical Vs optical.  However I agree with observation above regarding better dynamics with no optical in the chain.  I want the dynamics.  Optical and Ethernet together may not provide a beneficial outcome.  My understanding is that something is lost in the conversion of Ethernet to optical and back again.  My optical stuff is back in the box in the workshop.

John