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lonewolf

Cheap 4k vs higher quality 1080p?

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Hey Guys, How do the cheaper 4k projectors like the BenQ compare with the older JVC x30 Projectors? I have a x30 and was keen on getting a 4k device as my TV is not 4k either and since foxtel and netflix and other services are starting to do 4k, I was keen on having a 4k projector but the JVC 4k is so damn pricey. I was wondering if a cheaper 4k would overall look better than a pricier 1080p?

I understand that JVC has better blacks and contrast and colours, but can a 4k resolution make up for that and still look better because its sharper?

I know in computer games for instance, sometimes a high res by default can make the game better looking than lower res but other graphical options turned up.

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Suggest you demo some units in person. I think you’ll find the new value ‘4K’ projectors have a lot going for them but has compromises which you may consider important in your decision making process.

 

some benq at wchifi. Coming from JVC the DLP tech may not be to your liking.

 

Hardly Normal have some Epsons but you’d call ahead to check which store is setup. O’Connor store has a room with a few last I was there.

 

I deliberated on a few options but ultimately went with the N7. You might find the 5700 or 9400 good value.

Ezyhd goodie freebie in my other topic thread.

 

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Oh really? I always thought DLP was considered close to the best for picture quality but people didnt like the rainbow effects (seems to not be an issue in the newer variants) and / or the lack of lens shift etc. I know the sim2 is meant to be the top stuff and LCD seems to be the best for lens shift type features. JVC uses LCOS or something which is close to LCD. I am not sure if i got that stuff wrong, thats as much as i gathered from reading reviews / forum stuff. 

 

I was considering getting the BenQ W2700 as i think that is meant to be true 4k then again i read one article that seemed to state its not true 4k but uses a technology to double the pixels or something. 

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way to open up a can of worms.. one mans treasure is another mans junk.

 

you really need to use your own eyes to judge what is acceptable for you and your wallet.

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I dont have too many 4k items besides a few Blu rays, Xbox One games and PC games i guess plus Foxtel and Netflix / streaming sites. So a lot of the items will be upscaled from 1080p to 4k. The other thing is I have a Marantz 8801A, I am not sure I really understand what people have said about it in terms of 4k. It is meant to be able to pass through 4k but some people seem to imply it will have problems with this on certain 4k... I dont quite understand if i am affected by that issue or not. I presume if i use 4k then the darbee 5000s arent as useful anymore? I was considering something like the Benq W2700 but wasnt sure if the benefits of 4k will not be as good as the contrast and colours i get from my current JVC x30.

 

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title says it all... cheap vs quality. decide which you want cant have both ! 

 

x30 is really getting on now. geriatric even ! unit could be quite tired by now... will just a new lamp refresh or got other just plain age related things and performance wise really not upto what new projectors can do. i had the x35 later gen some years ago and it was excellent it would still hold own I would believe vs cheapo efforts that sacrifice in pure PQ  for price. 

 

If looking at cheap new... I would be also comparing with quality 2nd hand. there was an epson 9400 that went for $2500 which is silly low price. we saw the epson 9300 in the crazy sales last week going for $2799 but it is superceded run out and not as good out of box as 9400. while 9400 will get away likely without a professional calibration. id suggest you'd need one with the 9300 for 1080p and 4k.then there are older JVC be looking at 5000 or 7000 with a prof calibration or newer 5900 or 7900 at minimum and these would be lot better out of box. newer gen than that would be out of budget with n5 in the $7.5k and n7 in the 9.5-10k range. 

 

42 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

I dont have too many 4k items besides a few Blu rays, Xbox One games and PC games i guess plus Foxtel and Netflix / streaming sites. So a lot of the items will be upscaled from 1080p to 4k. The other thing is I have a Marantz 8801A, I am not sure I really understand what people have said about it in terms of 4k. It is meant to be able to pass through 4k but some people seem to imply it will have problems with this on certain 4k... I dont quite understand if i am affected by that issue or not. I presume if i use 4k then the darbee 5000s arent as useful anymore? I was considering something like the Benq W2700 but wasnt sure if the benefits of 4k will not be as good as the contrast and colours i get from my current JVC x30.

the marantz 8801 will not pass 4k uhd. and things like fury and such will be q pita.... i woudl be suggesting a new pre pro.

 

if you dont have sources that are 4k uhd appletv, xbox oneX and later or 4k uhd player then all those add to list to buy. if dont have a cable that can pass 4k uhd at full bandwidth also add that to list eg the comsol from office works at $69 if need 10m or 100s of dollars for fibre via ruipro

 

go out have a look at options at end of it choose what looks best in PQ terms dont get hung up in 4k and resolution there is more to uhd than that there are also wcg and high dynamic range. and contrast is an aspect that there seems step changes from DLP to LCD to Sony to jvc

 

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20 hours ago, lonewolf said:

Oh really? I always thought DLP was considered close to the best for picture quality but people didnt like the rainbow effects (seems to not be an issue in the newer variants) and / or the lack of lens shift etc.

At last years SNA HiFi show the mega $$$ Krix hometheatre presentation used a true 4k DLP projector. I can't remember which brand and I'm not trying to knock any particular projector. Despite being top of the range and a new model, it gave worse rainbow effect (RBE) than I've ever seen before. It was incredibly distracting to the point many of us were laughing about how bad it was at the annual dinner that night. Even if I could have afforded it, I could never buy 1. I'm very happy with my X7000 JVC's output doing quasi 4k, just wish it auto recognised content and made the adjustments rather than leaving it to me to change gamma settings etc for High Dynamic Range.

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5 hours ago, betty boop said:

title says it all... cheap vs quality. decide which you want cant have both ! 

 

x30 is really getting on now. geriatric even ! unit could be quite tired by now... will just a new lamp refresh or got other just plain age related things and performance wise really not upto what new projectors can do. i had the x35 later gen some years ago and it was excellent it would still hold own I would believe vs cheapo efforts that sacrifice in pure PQ  for price. 

 

If looking at cheap new... I would be also comparing with quality 2nd hand. there was an epson 9400 that went for $2500 which is silly low price. we saw the epson 9300 in the crazy sales last week going for $2799 but it is superceded run out and not as good out of box as 9400. while 9400 will get away likely without a professional calibration. id suggest you'd need one with the 9300 for 1080p and 4k.then there are older JVC be looking at 5000 or 7000 with a prof calibration or newer 5900 or 7900 at minimum and these would be lot better out of box. newer gen than that would be out of budget with n5 in the $7.5k and n7 in the 9.5-10k range. 

 

the marantz 8801 will not pass 4k uhd. and things like fury and such will be q pita.... i woudl be suggesting a new pre pro.

 

if you dont have sources that are 4k uhd appletv, xbox oneX and later or 4k uhd player then all those add to list to buy. if dont have a cable that can pass 4k uhd at full bandwidth also add that to list eg the comsol from office works at $69 if need 10m or 100s of dollars for fibre via ruipro

 

go out have a look at options at end of it choose what looks best in PQ terms dont get hung up in 4k and resolution there is more to uhd than that there are also wcg and high dynamic range. and contrast is an aspect that there seems step changes from DLP to LCD to Sony to jvc

 

I did put a new bulb in mine and i was surprised at how different it did look but yes it is quite old now hence why i was thinking of changing.

 

The marantz 8801 can pass through 4k but not HDCP2.2, I dont quite understand what the difference is, so if the devices use older HDCP it works but not with HDCP 2.2? Can i use my Xbox one S, Foxtel 4k, Netflix 4k etc through my current pre pro?

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11 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

I did put a new bulb in mine and i was surprised at how different it did look but yes it is quite old now hence why i was thinking of changing.

I've gone through 3 generation of jvc now starting the x35 and each ive wondered if can get any better and each update has told me yes it only gets better :D ofcourse there is cost to updating though and everyone will weigh that up differently :) 

 

12 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

The marantz 8801 can pass through 4k but not HDCP2.2, I dont quite understand what the difference is, so if the devices use older HDCP it works but not with HDCP 2.2? Can i use my Xbox one S, Foxtel 4k, Netflix 4k etc through my current pre pro?

8801 will not pass 4k uhd because of hdcp. your devices will most definitely work...however they wont pass 4k uhd because of copy protection...as the hand shake needed wont pass through. any non compliant device in the path and thats it nothing. you can use devices like blue stream, fury and even cheap hdmi switchers that inadvertently strip hdcp. I have used all of these and they can be a headache overall. but if happy to put up with odd handshake issue and things hanging up turning everything on off and switching this and that and all go for it. given low cost 2nd hand capable av pre pros go for, i myself woudl just go for one of those :) dont have to go for an 8 series marantz, can buy a newer 2016 + marantz 7 series and will do all necessary :)

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1 hour ago, lonewolf said:

The marantz 8801 can pass through 4k but not HDCP2.2, I dont quite understand what the difference is, so if the devices use older HDCP it works but not with HDCP 2.2? Can i use my Xbox one S, Foxtel 4k, Netflix 4k etc through my current pre pro?

As Al says your trouble is hdcp2.2 vs the Marantz 1.4 . They thoughtfully upgrade the drm [digital rights management] as each iteration is broken so we cant play  what we have paid for 🙁 Of course it makes brands like Marantz look bad as hdmi1.4 does have the bandwidth for 4k ;just snookered ..

If you had a 4k bd player with dual outs you could send audio to the Marantz [if that covered your Netflix etc] and get a switcher for other  audio sources that don't need a full atmos etc system :) eg 

https://www.ezyhd.com.au/shop/hdmi-switcher-3x1-4k60hz-hdr/

Or get innovative and get a zappiti media player with an app store with its own hdmi in and get some pre pro attributes ..

Edited by cwt

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Hmm turns out the projector stand is about 12 to 13 ft away from the screen. And my screen is either 95 or 100.i don't think the w2700 will fit sadly. Unless I am ok with a few inches on the sides being out of pic...

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the w2700 wont do 100" 3.6m

the w1700/tk800 will but they are a step down from the w2700

 

epson 8000/9000 series will, most probably the new ehtw7100 will but i cant find a throw calculator for it

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13 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

the w2700 wont do 100" 3.6m

the w1700/tk800 will but they are a step down from the w2700

 

epson 8000/9000 series will, most probably the new ehtw7100 will but i cant find a throw calculator for it

 
Epson EH-TW7100 Throw Distance Chart (Examples for common Sizes)
T/R: 1.32-2.15:1
Image Size Installation Distance
(Approx. To Lens)
92" (16:9) 2030x1140mm From 2.7m to 4.3m
100" (16:9) 2130x1200mm From 2.9m to 4.5m
110" (16:9) 2435x1370mm From 3.3m to 5.2m
120" (16:9) 2580x1450mm From 3.5m to 5.5m

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22 hours ago, betty boop said:

x30 is really getting on now. geriatric even ! unit could be quite tired by now..

 

Wow, I'm still running my JVC HD350....... :unsure:

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In my experience in case of installation flexibility,

 

it’s in order of best to worse

 

epson

jvc

sony

benq(most dlp)

 

I would check zoom and throw Via makers calculators they have on websites.

 

i wouldn’t personally go any less than 9000 series epson to replace a jvc :)

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3 minutes ago, Nevyn72 said:

Wow, I'm still running my JVC HD350....... :unsure:

I know folk running old 1st gen jvc hd1 that came about at dawn of blu-ray. We’re built like tanks. They replace lamp refresh-repeat :Doesn’t mean though there isn’t better to be had today :) refer my experience of every generation I’ve owned to realise how much better :) I never upgraded every model release just between gen and skipped some gen :)

 

lucky with hd350 that gen had considerable light engine issues.... if haven’t had those thanks lucky stars as even hd750 and 950 showed signs in use and no cure and even jvc couldn’t fix bar replace light engine.- prohibitive ! This wasn’t only projector of time with this kind thing. Gen before epson 8000-9000 had the same :)

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And I'm looking to replace my Pana PT-AX100E. I'll miss the 720p goodness :)

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10 minutes ago, chaddy said:

And I'm looking to replace my Pana PT-AX100E. I'll miss the 720p goodness :)

you wont miss it :D 

 

if looking for a modest update and stay within the pana family the AE8000 is a very good projector ... basically epson 9000 series cousin :) will bring into the 1080p era :D 

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28 minutes ago, betty boop said:

you wont miss it :D 

 

if looking for a modest update and stay within the pana family the AE8000 is a very good projector ... basically epson 9000 series cousin :) will bring into the 1080p era :D 

Thinking Epson 9400. It'll be a living room situation so need something bright and white.

 

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I am thinking of temporarily just having the pic overlap the screen till I can figure out if I will mount it or a larger screen. It’s a few inches overlap probably 5 on each end. I tried it on my hcd just increasing the size past the screen wasn’t terrible as my room is all black paint plus some of it goes in my black speakers but not much other choice than sticking with my jvc. Was looking BenQ due to price and came across a second hand one. I can’t afford too much more for anwhile

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4 minutes ago, chaddy said:

Thinking Epson 9400. It'll be a living room situation so need something bright and white.

 

Will be a great move ... :) 

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9 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

I am thinking of temporarily just having the pic overlap the screen till I can figure out if I will mount it or a larger screen. It’s a few inches overlap probably 5 on each end. I tried it on my hcd just increasing the size past the screen wasn’t terrible as my room is all black paint plus some of it goes in my black speakers but not much other choice than sticking with my jvc. Was looking BenQ due to price and came across a second hand one. I can’t afford too much more for anwhile

plenty of choice both new and second hand :)

 

Lone wolf given the collector-extraordinare that you are, my bet is if collected together all Hifi and av have bought and not used in 5 years let alone last year :D you’d have enough for a top gun projector and av pre pro to upgrade from what have. Not factoring in what would get for what upgrading from :D

 

Would  de clutter the life and still leave some shekels to continue on the hoarding journey to build up the collection .. which no doubt would still be a passion :) 

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3 minutes ago, betty boop said:

plenty of choice both new and second hand :)

 

Lone wolf given the collector-extraordinare that you are, my bet is if collected together all Hifi and av have bought and not used in 5 years let alone last year :D you’d have enough for a top gun projector and av pre pro to upgrade from what have. Not factoring in what would get for what upgrading from :D

 

Would  de clutter the life and still leave some shekels to continue on the hoarding journey to build up the collection .. which no doubt would still be a passion :) 

Haha very true, sadly I am hopeless at selling. Think I have a bout 3 other projectors besides my jvc in my possession at the moment. Had a couple more but gave them away to friends and gave a jvc  to my bro. 

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25 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

Haha very true, sadly I am hopeless at selling. Think I have a bout 3 other projectors besides my jvc in my possession at the moment. Had a couple more but gave them away to friends and gave a jvc  to my bro. 

Doesn’t make sense to add another that doesn’t even suit the setup ?? As much as loosing 50mm picture either side ? Why do that sort of thing :)

 

if hesitating I’d encourage give a sale a go. Take probably not much more than few minutes each :) the wolf’s lair annual clear out :D what hasn’t bee touched in the last year ... out it goes. ! 

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why not get a "normal" sized pj screen ie: 120"

 

if this is a main viewing room 100" is too small unless the room is say 4m long. even at 3m seating 120" is fine and if you are wanting 4k then sitting a long way back defeats the cost of going 4k doesnt it?

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