Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Bcdesign

80/20

Recommended Posts

I know we are all on the journey to get that last 20% but just wondering what everyones views are as to what price point (Generally!) for various components do you think you have the 80% covered. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s impossible to answer “across” the board as everyone’s price point is different. 
I’d say $40K for 80%, double that for the next 10% and double again for the remaining 10%. 
yrmv

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Muon N'

Yup, impossible to answer.

 

Who knows what 100% is?

 

And if someone goes DIY how does that correlate to retail, and in every price range there is crap, OK, good and a few gems. Add system synergy and there you have a can of worms, and that's before tweaks of different kinds including tweaking the room.

 

Edit: one person with 10k might get closer than another person with 40k.

Edited by Muon N'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and another person with 2k will enjoy their music just as much.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Your best bet for investment to get into those last 20% is your room, as far as tangible things are going. To cover intangible aspects of being an audiophiliac, one has to consider investing in a decent psychotherapist. You have to start asking some fundamental questions: what is the meaning of the 20%; does 20% even exist; what if you are perfectly happy with 80%, does that mean that 80% is suddenly your 100%?   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forget the 20%, it’s full of Myths, unicorns and rainbows!

 

Enjoy the 80% because if you are there you are no doubt enjoying what you have anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone truly believe you can actually buy that last 20%?

 

From what I can see, it will forever be elusive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


18 hours ago, Bcdesign said:

I know we are all on the journey to get that last 20% but just wondering what everyones views are as to what price point (Generally!) for various components do you think you have the 80% covered. 
 

Things which make an enormous difference in hifi don't necessarily cost a lot of money, so it's very difficult to say.

 

1 hour ago, joz said:

Does anyone truly believe you can actually buy that last 20%?

Heh, I know what you mean  :) 

... I tend to twist that around a little bit.

 

 

The first 80% is the "free" bit.   It's room layout, positioning of source and listener, and sensible speaker/subwoofer design.

It's that last 20% which sucks all the money up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Things which make an enormous difference in hifi don't necessarily cost a lot of money, so it's very difficult to say.

So true! Before spending any money, try and make sure you are really maximising what you have, things like speaker and subwoofer placement are some of the most important things, get that wrong and you may think you need something you don’t and potentially even go backwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/11/2019 at 1:21 PM, davewantsmoore said:

Things which make an enormous difference in hifi don't necessarily cost a lot of money, so it's very difficult to say.

 

And conversely a lot of things that don't make much difference can cost a lot more than those that do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends of hearing capability as well. For me the highest level is for example Focal sopra no 2 and Devialet 220. 

My ears are not good enough to appreciate any improvement above that. 

So around $40k is my 95%. 

Devialet is on my shopping list 2030.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Guest Muon N'

An how can anyone say what the 100% is?

 

It will be a target that is very different from one person to the next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Say you are at 80%, then you improve your setup by a relative 10%, so are you now at 88% or is that now your new 80%?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100% would be the equivalent of your head (ideally attached to your body) right there in the room during the performance. Top tier audio, no matter how much it costs or who makes it, can't get closer than about 70% of this (super accurate number derived from Ultra-science Power there) due to the way recordings are made. The information your brain requires to recreate this experience is simply not recorded. To ever get to 100% would mean a major change in recording technology, where audio is recorded in such a way that individual people's HRTFs can be recreated through processing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I think it’s more like 80/20 achievable at upper midfi, 90/10 at lower hifi level and then 95/5 is more elusive.

 

I’ve heard half a dozen $50k to $300k systems that are very good while $10k to $20k rrp equivalent cost well chosen and matched used systems that in reality cost about about $3-6k used easily can do 90/10 and more if the user is good at it, some attributes even beating the mega systems depending on what one is chasing or focusing on.

 

There have been several instances of the mega systems sounding very average.

Edited by Al.M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


As you travel on thru life, whatever be your goal, keep your eye upon the doughnut and not upon the hole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy with what I've got. All up, around 6K.

If I wanted to improve on this I'd start with a massive room.

End result would be around 1Mill.

2 Channel only.

Edited by Wimbo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not really about the money. It's about the marriage of the whole system (regardless of price level); the room set-up; the level of listening enjoyment; your musical preferences, and the degree of 'non-fatiguing' sonic reproduction. The slippery slope of technological excellence will really cost a lot!

 

You are also severely limited by recording technology--it is the exception rather than the rule to make a sonic blockbuster these days.

 

I note that musicians almost invariably have modest sound systems. And that in the retro days (1060's) the usual systems often brought immense musical enjoyment: how often has some hi-fi guru waxed lyrical about a first Dynaco or Quad or Marantz valve system with modest record player and speakers? Even today a good system like that will bring musical thrills even if the components have 'improved' since.

 

On the other side of that fence my friend has a $100K mega system and around 12 LPs to play, as well as a hard drive of boring sonic blockbusters. I'm not sure if he even loves music that much...

 

I say if your system actually gives you the happy illusion that you're listening to music and not hi-fi reproduction then you are in the zone. And I'm not talking about car radios either, although you could do a lot of happy listening there as well.

 

I believe that there are levels of reproducing excellence (tiers of hi-fi technological competence): low, mid and high. I like to buy second-hand items from the top of the middle level if I can. For me there must be valves somewhere in that chain but that's a personal choice.

 

After all that I note that my main amp was $4,500, preamp $7K, speakers around $3K, sources around $8K...all up around $25K. Oh dear. At least I'm suggesting that amount to Mission Control. But what is money for?

 

Later in life I discovered headphones--and the fidelity and pleasure from my Sennheiser 650s and my pimped-out Little Dot SE Mk4 (OTL) is scarcely believable to a veteran of the slippery slopes. Biggest bang for the buck ever. Ticks all my boxes including low cost!

 

Just my 2c worth.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/11/2019 at 6:46 PM, Bcdesign said:

I know we are all on the journey to get that last 20% <snip>

Nope. Not on that journey.😀

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me neither.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, doogie44 said:

It's not really about the money. It's about the marriage of the whole system (regardless of price level); the room set-up; the level of listening enjoyment; your musical preferences, and the degree of 'non-fatiguing' sonic reproduction. The slippery slope of technological excellence will really cost a lot!

 

You are also severely limited by recording technology--it is the exception rather than the rule to make a sonic blockbuster these days.

 

I note that musicians almost invariably have modest sound systems. And that in the retro days (1060's) the usual systems often brought immense musical enjoyment: how often has some hi-fi guru waxed lyrical about a first Dynaco or Quad or Marantz valve system with modest record player and speakers? Even today a good system like that will bring musical thrills even if the components have 'improved' since.

 

On the other side of that fence my friend has a $100K mega system and around 12 LPs to play, as well as a hard drive of boring sonic blockbusters. I'm not sure if he even loves music that much...

 

I say if your system actually gives you the happy illusion that you're listening to music and not hi-fi reproduction then you are in the zone. And I'm not talking about car radios either, although you could do a lot of happy listening there as well.

 

I believe that there are levels of reproducing excellence (tiers of hi-fi technological competence): low, mid and high. I like to buy second-hand items from the top of the middle level if I can. For me there must be valves somewhere in that chain but that's a personal choice.

 

After all that I note that my main amp was $4,500, preamp $7K, speakers around $3K, sources around $8K...all up around $25K. Oh dear. At least I'm suggesting that amount to Mission Control. But what is money for?

 

Later in life I discovered headphones--and the fidelity and pleasure from my Sennheiser 650s and my pimped-out Little Dot SE Mk4 (OTL) is scarcely believable to a veteran of the slippery slopes. Biggest bang for the buck ever. Ticks all my boxes including low cost!

 

Just my 2c worth.

 

 

DIY done well is even cheaper :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...