was_a Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) Yep, very well spotted... Some investigation on Google might turn up some, or similar. Edited November 29, 2019 by was_a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) Jaycar used to sell something that looked identical to that (maybe still do), I found it OK but nothing special. Edit: fark! that was Jaycar! this heat is getting to me Edited November 29, 2019 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was_a Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) The next step up would be a sensible design with Teflon insulation. I keep a roll of Atlas Hyper 3.0 (also discontinued) which is really nice for most speaker loads. You can still find this online. Edited November 29, 2019 by was_a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A9X Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) Edit; got better things to do tonight. Edited November 29, 2019 by A9X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
was_a Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Thanks for your contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agisthos Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 There are so many options, and speaker cables are more amp/speaker dependent than any other cable in an audio system. For under 1k I would take a look at Tellurium Q speaker cables. A 2.5m pair of "Tellurium Q Black II" is $500 AUD. You may be surprised what they can do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realysm42 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 My first ‘high end’ speaker cable was the original Tellurium Q Ultra Black; I tried it against various other cables and I didn’t want it to be better due to the cost, alas, I purchased it because it was clearly better than the competition. I use Coherent 6D speaker cables and jumpers now, they’re a big step up again. Short of a lottery win, these will be my last as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 On 29/11/2019 at 1:45 PM, was_a said: The next step up would be a sensible design with Teflon insulation. I keep a roll of Atlas Hyper 3.0 (also discontinued) which is really nice for most speaker loads. You can still find this online. What would make Teflon insulation more superior to any other insulation, in speaker cables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: What would make Teflon insulation more superior to any other insulation, in speaker cables? Lower capacitance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Ittaku said: Lower capacitance. Possibly in the MHz range, but negligible at audio frequencies. The only advantage I can see is that maybe a bit more durable as far as physical damage. But again that depends if it is solid PTFE or wrapped PTFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Just now, bob_m_54 said: Possibly in the MHz range, but negligible at audio frequencies. The only advantage I can see is that maybe a bit more durable as far as physical damage. But again that depends if it is solid PTFE or wrapped PTFE You'll note I did not say whether that would lead to an audible improvement or not. That is up to the observer to decide. It's simply a fact that capacitance is lower. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ittaku said: You'll note I did not say whether that would lead to an audible improvement or not. That is up to the observer to decide. It's simply a fact that capacitance is lower. Yes, the physical geometry of the actual conductors would affect the capacitance many thousand fold more than the insulating material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 The good old Aussie "It's good anuf, mate" Doesn't the signal carrier (EM Wave) interact with the dielectric, in what I have found around physics suggests it does. Anyway, this is not keeping in the Aussie spirit of things, when we can have "good enough" and that's what this hobby is about....just good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Muon N' said: The good old Aussie "It's good anuf, mate" Doesn't the signal carrier (EM Wave) interact with the dielectric, in what I have found around physics suggests it does. Anyway, this is not keeping in the Aussie spirit of things, when we can have "good enough" and that's what this hobby is about....just good enough. It affects the E wave (as opposed to the H wave), but not measurably at audio frequencies. Dielectric properties of insulators don't really come into effect until you reach MHz region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: It affects the E wave , but not measurably at audio frequencies. Dielectric properties of insulators don't really come into effect until you reach MHz region. That's what I keep reading a lot of EE's saying in regards to EM waves on audio forums. Edit: I'll still choose my dielectrics with care regardless. Edited December 5, 2019 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 30 minutes ago, Muon N' said: That's what I keep reading a lot of EE's saying in regards to EM waves on audio forums. Edit: I'll still choose my dielectrics with care regardless. Yet EE's in any other field of electronics don't even consider it, at audio frequencies, especially when you consider the surface area V separation distance of the two conductors. The insulation around the cable anywhere but directly between the two conductors doesn't even come into play. Remember that dielectric properties are only effective directly between the two plates or conductors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Those internet/forum EE's can do as they like (not all EE's agree in this area around the effects of dielectrics, even the ones that design), and I'll do as like in this hobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Muon N' said: Those internet/forum EE's can do as they like (not all EE's agree in this area around the effects of dielectrics, even the ones that design), and I'll do as like in this hobby That's fair enough too. If you don't understand the principals, go with your ears/gut/wallet... I prefer technically authenticated methods, myself.. Edited December 6, 2019 by bob_m_54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 hour ago, bob_m_54 said: That's fair enough too. If you don't understand the principals, go with your ears/gut/wallet... I prefer technically authenticated methods, myself.. I'll approach it in a way outside of what you assume there. Have a great weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsondelagator Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Hi all, I have a set of PSB synchrony 1 speakers (RRP at time of release 7000AUD) and a Parasound Halo 5 Integrated. I've also acquired and Isotek Sirius and good power cables. The speakers are described as neutral to slightly warm with well pronounced low end. I will be using the Halo for predominately Digital streaming. considering this mid/hi fi setup, what is a good recommendation for Speaker cable? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerly Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 bob_m_54 - there are many so called truisms in audio which turn out to be complete b/s but one has never been seriously challenged - the best dialectric is air, that's why many maintain that point-to point is the best type of construction. I spent over 4 years experimenting with i/connect constructions and listening to the results via Senn 650s and a quality h/amp - with cans there is no hiding place. Apart from all the accepted wisdom which turned out to be pure b/s/inertia thinking my last revelation was in trying FEP over sized tubing instead of Teflon/PTFE. They are both from the same fluroplastic family but the clarity of FEP over Teflon/PTFE was surprising to say the least. So by using over sized FEP tubing little of the conductor/s was touching the FEP but when it did this was 'interfering' the least with signal conduction. You remind me of someone on Headfi who said " I only trust my measuring devices and data to select cables". I then asked him " who sits down to listen to music in your house, you, or the measuring devices" - strangely he never came back with an answer. I always find it hilarious that 'some' EEs and other devotees hold their textbooks up like religious or political extremists and then completely deny that they are the 'true believers' trying to pin this onto those who have open minds and 'hear what they hear' for better or worse. The other attack is that all those cables they reject are expensive. It's true in my case that I also found that quality silver/plated (MWS) copper solid core and high purity solid core silver conductors allow much better signal conduction that cheap crappo. None of which meant that my i/connects were expensive financially though due to the nature of my final design they cost a lot of time in construction. Foe me 'the ears have it' others may well disagree - you pays yer money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Southerly said: bob_m_54 - there are many so called truisms in audio which turn out to be complete b/s but one has never been seriously challenged - the best dialectric is air, that's why many maintain that point-to point is the best type of construction. I spent over 4 years experimenting with i/connect constructions and listening to the results via Senn 650s and a quality h/amp - with cans there is no hiding place. Apart from all the accepted wisdom which turned out to be pure b/s/inertia thinking my last revelation was in trying FEP over sized tubing instead of Teflon/PTFE. They are both from the same fluroplastic family but the clarity of FEP over Teflon/PTFE was surprising to say the least. So by using over sized FEP tubing little of the conductor/s was touching the FEP but when it did this was 'interfering' the least with signal conduction. You remind me of someone on Headfi who said " I only trust my measuring devices and data to select cables". I then asked him " who sits down to listen to music in your house, you, or the measuring devices" - strangely he never came back with an answer. I always find it hilarious that 'some' EEs and other devotees hold their textbooks up like religious or political extremists and then completely deny that they are the 'true believers' trying to pin this onto those who have open minds and 'hear what they hear' for better or worse. The other attack is that all those cables they reject are expensive. It's true in my case that I also found that quality silver/plated (MWS) copper solid core and high purity solid core silver conductors allow much better signal conduction that cheap crappo. None of which meant that my i/connects were expensive financially though due to the nature of my final design they cost a lot of time in construction. Foe me 'the ears have it' others may well disagree - you pays yer money. Was the oversize tubing used in both situations? ie both PTFE and FEP oversized tubing? Using oversized tubing will effectively separate the conductors further, and lower the capacitance of the lead. This would definitely affect the sound, I agree. If you used oversized tubing, in both situations, and heard a difference, then ? you heard a difference. I have no explanation as to why you should, apart from the separation distance may not be regular down the length of the lead, and therefore the capacitance of leads constructed in the same way, but with the different insulators could have different capacitance properties, and may sound different. I am assuming you used oversized tubing over each conductor in the lead; ie two tubes per lead, one over the pos conductor and the other over the neg conductor. Correct me if I am wrong here. Edited January 13, 2020 by bob_m_54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPete9 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I haven't read this whole thread, but i replaced by DIY Jaycar cable with a simple canare 4s11 - i did one speaker at a time (2hrs in between) and you can hear the difference when listening to the system, rather than the music if you know what i mean. Probably shows that my braided DIY stranded cabled have too high inductance (which is too hard for me to measure on my multi metre) and the replacements don't. or maybe my system is setup up well enough to detect subtleties like this now. Either way, its very interesting and fun and i dont mind buying some nice cables. I am thinking i will buy some Chord Rumour X - any reason not to buy these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerly Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 bob_m_54, if you read my post clearly you will see that I spent 4 years experimenting with i/connects - why do you assume that I only used one conductor for signal and one for return? - that is where I started, not where i ended up. Of course it's far cheaper to use that configuration commercially. It's also far cheaper to twist conductors and claim that it's to deal with interference when this interference is theoretical - the real reason is that then you don't need to sheathe the cable - cheaper production costs = more profit. I never twist the conductors ergo i need to sheath the conductors which makes constructing the cables difficult. It also means that I have to use 2 different gauges of heat shrink because the barrels are never tapered. Most if not all RCAs come with a screw in the barrel to 'hold' the conductors - a very bad idea compressing the conductors inside whatever dialectric used. Just for the craic I tried using 2 conductors for both signal and return and was surprised that there was a definite uplift in every area - so why not try 3 - again the effect was positive. I moved onto 4 per signal and return. The difference between the convention (commercial) of 1 and and 4 per side has to be heard. My phono stage is a So, having to deal with 8 conductors and sheathing them and using 2 different gauges of heat shrink is bloody difficult. I'm sure that the commercial boys have tried this and rejected this type of construction for the simple reason that time is money not to mention increased costs. Re. the tubing, I started out using the 'conventional' Teflon/PTFE but tried the FEP - no comparison. The cost is comparable but audio is full of the inertia mentality. Furutech now make phono cables using a FEP foam and charging very silly money for them, this of course means there is no air separation at all. Using the same construction of 2 sets of cables with the only difference being being FEP instead of Teflon the difference is immediately obvious in clarity. For the 4 years I used a bog standard Marantz 63KI with Senn 650 cans or via Heybrook Sextet speakers I had listened on the wireless to a very popular CD at the time (in Spain) Rosario Flores - Mucho Flores, it sounded great, so I bought the CD and played it via the 63Ki, a WAD KAT 88 valve amp through Heybrook Sextet Mk 4 speakers - it was unlistenable. It was so bright as not to believe. With each iteration of cables I made it got less bright, in the end it turned out to be a completely enjoyable CD. Yes I prefer to listen to vinyl but I think that CD got a bad reputation because of the 'conventional' i/connects used. Of course the conductors were touching the dialectric at random points but this is not detectable when listening which proves that dialectric does play a very important role as do the RCA plugs used. Why not make a set using the same materials I have used and hear for your self. I am about to make what I think will be my last experiment - using thin wall instead of standard wall FEP tubing, Flextech cotton sheathing, never use ordinary Flextech because it's horribly microphonic and 6N solid core copper (7N is b/s). Most of us who make our own cables use between 24-28 AWG, I prefer 26AWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_m_54 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Sorry for the assumption, I was just trying to figure out the cable orientation, and how the insulation was applied. But... anyway... Edit: we are still talking about speaker cable aren't we? Edited January 15, 2020 by bob_m_54 clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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