wasabijim Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Hiya I’m eying off a 2M Bronze “fine line” stylus as an upgrade. However I have concerns that increased set-up precision needed for the more refined stylus will be beyond what my old Hitchi PS-38 TT (and maybe me) can accommodate. The PS-38 (late 70’s) is in pretty good nick having been in storage/not used since about around ’88. It has an OK medium SME arm, but it doesn’t benefit from VTA adjust or any azimuth adjust either. The stock cart is re-badged AT-VM8 (the AT-10/11/12 line) with a new generic elliptical and in addition to this I’ve mostly been running a Ortofon 2M Blue stylus on the 2M Silver cart. FWIW – the Silver was a special OEM item exclusively for Project TTs (I think). While the bonded elliptical stylus is essentially that of 2M Red, the guts of the cart is closer to the Bronze/Black with more exotic material like silver windings etc. I’d simply swap out the Blue or the Bronze stylus. Maybe re-do the alignment to be safe. My concerns comes from experience a few months back with a regarded cart with Shibata tip that I picked up 2nd hand. Reportedly in the area of 200hrs use. It was super quiet, rather smooth and sweetly delicate but the sound stage was noticeably more condensed and/or biased to one side. Plus it didn’t have the urgency in its timings or bass presence of the other carts. I went through the alignment exercise a couple of times but apart from centring the sound stage I found it a little meh, so I end up going back to the Blue/original cart. I’ve read the 2M Black with its Shibata tip is sensitive to set-up. I don’t mind taking the time to get the overhang alignment right (getting pretty good at it now) but I’m worried the Bronze will be similarly susceptible and I’ll get a repeat experience of not getting real benefits from the ‘superior’ stylus cut. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Well, the body of the Silver is the same as the Red/Blue body composite (different to the composite of the body of the Bronze/Black), the only difference from the Red is the silver plated wire windings internally. The Bronze stylus can benefit from adjustable VTA, but maybe you can adjust this aspect with mat thickness changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 (edited) I have a original condition Hitachi PS 48 TT and it has a Garrott P77i mounted on it. it doesn't get as much use as it once did since my Pioneer PL 50 arrived, but the combination still works very well and I have never had an issue of any kind. Edit: I really should add that my PS 48 has the original arm and NOT an SME arm. Edited November 18, 2019 by rantan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 57 minutes ago, wasabijim said: However I have concerns that increased set-up precision needed for the more refined stylus will be beyond what my old Hitchi PS-38 TT (and maybe me) can accommodate. I don't see why you might think that set-up precision is not achievable with your turntable. There is nothing inherently wrong with that table and tonearm with regard to alignment, except it is not height adjustable as far as I remember. You'll have to allow for that SRA with spacers and/or wedges in the headshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Hang on! SME arm? Make sure it is compliant, a good match. I know little about SME arms but recall they can be a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasabijim Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 SME arm... sorry was meant to say SME "lookalike" S-shape its the original Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasabijim Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 hours ago, aussievintage said: I don't see why you might think that set-up precision is not achievable with your turntable. There is nothing inherently wrong with that table and tonearm with regard to alignment, except it is not height adjustable as far as I remember. You'll have to allow for that SRA with spacers and/or wedges in the headshell. cool that's what I'm hoping I don't want to rubbish the Shibita unit, maybe its just not a good match for other reasons beyond the profile. I just didn't want a similar experience. maybe i should give it another crack or have it looked at. this shootout article (cause no other heading solves a slow day in the comments) they talk about the Black and tricky setup. Under $1,000 moving magnet cartridge shootout ,11 cartridges reviewed! – Sound Advice Vinyl SOUNDADVICEVINYL.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, wasabijim said: cool that's what I'm hoping I don't want to rubbish the Shibita unit, maybe its just not a good match for other reasons beyond the profile. I just didn't want a similar experience. maybe i should give it another crack or have it looked at. Mind you, I was commenting on quality and adjustability. You DO need to ensure the cartridge compliance and tonearm resonate at a reasonable frequency, i.e. they are a good match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, wasabijim said: SME arm... sorry was meant to say SME "lookalike" S-shape its the original Ah, got ya', so like many S shaped arms of that time... a medium mass arm that can take a good range of carts :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I used to run a Bronze on the Sansui SR-838 I had, and it can benefit from VTA adjustment, but changing mat thickness can get you close, or like aussievintage says, spacers if doable. Not as fussy as a shibata though, but is good for dialing it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasabijim Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 was just flicking thru the manual and found this which suggests fancy stylus cuts can be accommodated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wen Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 the 2M Bronze is a more accomodating cartridge than the Black, i have had the Bronze on an early rega s shaped arm, no issues at all, not as refined a sound as the Black but easier to lsten to long term 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasabijim Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 thanks all for input looks like i'll be able to post off my list to Santa in the coming days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, wasabijim said: was just flicking thru the manual and found this which suggests fancy stylus cuts can be accommodated That's just a selling point from the time, just means you can mount a shibata like cartridge/stylus (CD-4 cartridge), doesn't mean it is optimised for best performance in regards to VTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 No advice......just noting that this is yet another excellent CEC made TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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