Jump to content

Fires and Housing


Recommended Posts

If I lived in Oz or California a smart home to me would have to mean first that it was fireproof. I'll bet that when the rebuilding begins it will mean the same old, same old. Why on earth are people buying homes in wildfire locations built using combustible materials. I've seen the news from both locations and in Oz all that's left are the tin roofs. Why aren't governments insisting on fireproof materials used on all construction projects - vested interests?

 

It's not as if fireproof materials are something new, aircrete blocks were invented in Sweden by ? an architect in 1924. They are fireproof/insect proof and acoustically superb. They are 1/3rd the weight of dense concrete blocks and are environmentally sound. The French used to use metal shutters to keep out the sun and for security. If an external fire happened the paint finish would be destroyed but the integrity was unaltered. Now they use German made electrically operated plastic ones that will simply melt in  the event of a fire.

 

These aircrete blocks need a protective exterior skin, the most common is a crepi finish but decorative stone or tile hung finish can be used. Aluminium or steel roofing is catching on in Europe far cheaper to install than clay tiles or slates and properly fixed no problems with storm force winds or fire.

 

I feel very sorry for those who have lost their homes, here in France it is illegal not to have buildings insurance, I hope all those who lost their homes had insurance. As always insurance is a waste of money - until you need it.

 

If you have lost your home or know someone who has, make sure to check out aircrete blocks and don't stand for any b/s from builders who don't want to change, the internet makes this search very easy. A good start is the German company www.xella.com, they have info in many languages.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



To get approval to build in fire prone areas in Victoria,  there are strict conditions in what materials are used.  I’m going though building at the moment and even the weep holes must provide a barrier against embers,  and this is in the outer suburb of Melb where bush fires will never happen.    The reason we have such a crisis today up north is due to the drought that’s bone dry and the fuel is high.   I can’t imagine the issues up there, we had 5 month without rain and when I drove up to Shepparton for work some weeks it’s was a literal a dust bowel, even weeds don’t grow, but yet I saw back burning.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Southerly said:

If I lived in Oz or California a smart home to me would have to mean first that it was fireproof. I'll bet that when the rebuilding begins it will mean the same old, same old. Why on earth are people buying homes in wildfire locations built using combustible materials. I've seen the news from both locations and in Oz all that's left are the tin roofs. Why aren't governments insisting on fireproof materials used on all construction projects - vested interests?

 

It's not as if fireproof materials are something new, aircrete blocks were invented in Sweden by ? an architect in 1924. They are fireproof/insect proof and acoustically superb. They are 1/3rd the weight of dense concrete blocks and are environmentally sound. The French used to use metal shutters to keep out the sun and for security. If an external fire happened the paint finish would be destroyed but the integrity was unaltered. Now they use German made electrically operated plastic ones that will simply melt in  the event of a fire.

 

These aircrete blocks need a protective exterior skin, the most common is a crepi finish but decorative stone or tile hung finish can be used. Aluminium or steel roofing is catching on in Europe far cheaper to install than clay tiles or slates and properly fixed no problems with storm force winds or fire.

 

I feel very sorry for those who have lost their homes, here in France it is illegal not to have buildings insurance, I hope all those who lost their homes had insurance. As always insurance is a waste of money - until you need it.

 

If you have lost your home or know someone who has, make sure to check out aircrete blocks and don't stand for any b/s from builders who don't want to change, the internet makes this search very easy. A good start is the German company www.xella.com, they have info in many languages.

You're making big presumptions from some distance away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

eman I'm not making presumptions, I've seen the total destruction of homes in Oz and California, that's only possible when homes are built from combustible materials. Will building regs. be changed so this can't happen again, I doubt it, too many vested interests involved.

 

I'm sure that the horrific Grenfell Tower tragedy was covered in Oz, completely avoidable. The fatcat Tories who controlled Kensington council didn't want to spend money on common oiks living there. They used combustible cladding, coupled with a fire service rigidly sticking to an outdated set of rules which said - stay put - 72 people burned alive was the result.

 

I used to live in Andalucia, Spain, the whole of the Spanish Med coast is on a fault line that runs from southern France to Agadir in Morrocco  in 1960  between 12 and 15000 died crushed to death and another 15000 injured - by houses not designed for earthquakes. When the two tectonic plates decide to samba again and it happens at night the badly built apartment blocks will kill an awful lot more than that - the Spanish refuse to recognise this and continue to let construction companies build the same crap.

 

The French are the only people in western Europe who didn't stupidly cut down all their forests, they make a lot of money selling oak for wine barrels and furniture to foreign countries. As desertification moves up from southern Europe (see the forest fires in Portugal) France will burn, it's only a matter of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only ‘vested interest’ I can think of is the building industry, who I imagine would love some more expensive homes to build.

 

I imagine we will see some big changes in regulation in NSW/QLD after this (as we did after the fires in Victoria).

 

In my memory (I’m 39), I can’t recall anything near this scale (except in Victoria). Many of the areas (of course not all) are usually to concerned at this time of year as to when the flood waters will go down.

Edited by furtherpale
Link to comment
Share on other sites



12 hours ago, Southerly said:

As desertification moves up from southern Europe (see the forest fires in Portugal) France will burn, it's only a matter of time.

Portugal, Australia and California all have something in common which REQUIRES fire for it's survival; eucalyptus trees. This is why all 3 areas have huge fire issues at times. The Portuguese imported them (from Oz I presume) for their paper industry many many years ago and now it is almost like a weed. I was amazed when i first went there how much the landscape reminded me of home.

 

We have increased fire regulations now in areas that have already been decimated and home owners can't afford to rebuild as their insurance will not cover the added expense.

Edited by blybo
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 18/11/2019 at 3:03 AM, blybo said:

Portugal, Australia and California all have something in common which REQUIRES fire for it's survival; eucalyptus trees. This is why all 3 areas have huge fire issues at times. The Portuguese imported them (from Oz I presume) for their paper industry many many years ago and now it is almost like a weed. I was amazed when i first went there how much the landscape reminded me of home.

 

We have increased fire regulations now in areas that have already been decimated and home owners can't afford to rebuild as their insurance will not cover the added expense.

Franco ordered people in Galicia to plant eucalyptus and in no time land that once had sheep, cattle and oak in the valley bottoms became one depressingly grey/green forest. Eucalyptus loves fire and the resultant ash just gives more nutrients for the trees to grow faster. The other reason that these fires spread so raidly is that the undergrowth receives no attention at all and that's where the fires start. In Germany they deal with this and create firebreaks.

 

Noe of this is any good if the same old combustible materials are used to rebuild.  American homes make look sturdy but that is an illusion, apart from a brick or stone chimney they are all thrown up quickly using internal wooden frameworks and timber cladding.

 

Aircrete blocks require no insulation, that's integral to the blocks, I know I was a brickie and there is no quicker way to build a wall external or internal than with these blocks. Electrical wiring is a doddle to use within the blocks themselves. One of the biggest causes of fires within the home is through electrical wring, insufficient gauge or stupid overloading, within the block, it can't go anywhere. With a modern society the biggest expense in house building is labour, not materials. The beauty for those who are into music is the acoustic insulation of these blocks. I cannot believe how bad privacy is within a French house old or new. Even with the 'new' regs. of 2012 to achieve a reasonable U value, it requires 4 separate operations with aircrete blocks it's a single 30cm block.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 16/11/2019 at 10:51 PM, Southerly said:

If I lived in Oz or California a smart home to me would have to mean first that it was fireproof. I'll bet that when the rebuilding begins it will mean the same old, same old. Why on earth are people buying homes in wildfire locations built using combustible materials. I've seen the news from both locations and in Oz all that's left are the tin roofs. Why aren't governments insisting on fireproof materials used on all construction projects - vested interests?

 

It's not as if fireproof materials are something new, aircrete blocks were invented in Sweden by ? an architect in 1924. They are fireproof/insect proof and acoustically superb. They are 1/3rd the weight of dense concrete blocks and are environmentally sound. The French used to use metal shutters to keep out the sun and for security. If an external fire happened the paint finish would be destroyed but the integrity was unaltered. Now they use German made electrically operated plastic ones that will simply melt in  the event of a fire.

 

These aircrete blocks need a protective exterior skin, the most common is a crepi finish but decorative stone or tile hung finish can be used. Aluminium or steel roofing is catching on in Europe far cheaper to install than clay tiles or slates and properly fixed no problems with storm force winds or fire.

 

I feel very sorry for those who have lost their homes, here in France it is illegal not to have buildings insurance, I hope all those who lost their homes had insurance. As always insurance is a waste of money - until you need it.

 

If you have lost your home or know someone who has, make sure to check out aircrete blocks and don't stand for any b/s from builders who don't want to change, the internet makes this search very easy. A good start is the German company www.xella.com, they have info in many languages.

 

It might be on old invention but they still manage modern copyright.

 

Out here it's called HEBEL.

 

WWW.CSR.COM.AU

Hebel is Australia’s leading brand of Autoclaved Aerated Concrete, an innovative, lightweight building material for residential and commercial construction

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There you go - hebel blocks, I wouldn't use the panels, no need to stress over wildfires ever again and as the blurb says excellent acoustic insulation. The blurb mentions termites, I can't see why, there's nothing for them to feed on. A blown crepi finish which can be finished by various means is the best. Al;ways choose a crepi with a colour pigment - no painting is required ever.

 

Interestingly this company recommends using the fixative/glue exactly the way I did and will do on my house here in France, there should be zero waste, the 'thin joint' method is the best in any kind of climate. Do not get conned into having a hard plaster finish on internal walls, totally unnecessary - skim coat any defects with a any good filler, rub down, size and line or cross line with a good 1200 grade lining paper or even simpler carefully skim coat the joints and use a good non toxic paint. This will give a wonderful non reflective finish and can only benefit the sound of your audio. Be very aware that vinyl paint is carcinogenic and doesn't allow internal walls to breathe, especially bad for young children.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are improved building laws, codes and standards for newly built structures in the last 10 years after several similar incidences. See here https://www.abcb.gov.au/-/media/Files/Resources/Education-Training/Handbook_Bushfire_Verification_Method.pdf

 

Many older structures are not built nor required to the standard and cannot withstand it. Things are not restrospective.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites



I live in rural Victoria and my bushfire rating at home is BAL29. I’m in a newly constructed house built to the fire rating, using non combustible hardiplank, colorbond, fire resistant wood treatment (Exfire), double glazed and treated windows, sarking everywhere and every nook filled to stop embers.
 

It’s a significant expense to add to building a home but I’d much rather have a home built to this level if anything unfortunate ever occurred.
 

OP is making some wide ranging assertions with limited understanding on what is already in place after Black Saturday in areas covered under a bushfire management overlay. 


The fires in QLD and NSW destroyed many homes not built with bushfires in mind, in areas which historically haven’t seen significant bushfire risk. This is the new normal and I expect many changes will soon come to building regulations in other states to match what we have in Victoria today.


While my home is built to resist fires, on Code Red and Extreme fire danger days, we still head to the city the night before and stay in a hotel. If you’ve ever seen any of the docos on Black Saturday, you’ll know some things you never want to see close up.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

recur - why go on using timber even if it's treated and what kind of toxicity does this treatment present. Termite control in the US involves really nasty chemicals, I can't imagine it's different in Oz.  No wood = no termite problem. Why not use a material that is fireproof/insect proof and acoustically superb, the only reason I can think of is - vested interests. 

 

Here in France they introduced new 'improved' building Regs. in 2012. Did this include stopping the use of dense concrete blocks - no or the awful honeycombed clay blocks - no or the use of 3" clay blocks for  party/internal walls - no. Apartment blocks allow for zero privacy, same in Spain. Just how much privacy (sound insulation) do you have in Oz. 

 

If anyone is thinking of having a new home built or for those poor sods who lost their homes to fire check out how much using Hebel blocks it will cost, don't be blagged by builders. When they answer look them straight in the eyes. No toxic chemicals are needed for an aircrete built house. Life is strange - if I hadn't gone to work in the Netherlands I would never have learnt about this material for decades. It is now mandatory to use this material in construction in the UK.

 

Remember all building Regs. in any country are not the optimum just the minimum required. Many new build houses in France have problems with the foundations especially those built on clay. The most important part of a house are the foundations, that which you cannot see. 

 

A home is for most people the biggest investment they will ever make, trust no one, do the research, everything you need to know is easily accessed on the net.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I designed a fireproof house as I was looking at properties in the Blue Mountains and South Coast that ajoined national Parks.

It involved Hebel with windows and doors set right back into the openings and fire rated steel shutters rebated into the block work.

Hence you wouldn't see them when they were open.

This was in the Victorian Mansion style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...
To Top