Help with new DAP vs new Phone

[08Boss302 1,437]

Hi All,

As the title suggests,  Looking for some advice in an area I am very new too.

I am in the position of wanting to switch from my very reliable iPod Classic to one of the above. 

Couple of reasons for this including having recently ripped my library to FLAC, use of Bluetooth headphones with aptX HD and also streaming.

 

I have a phone right now which is great and does not need replacing (nor does the iPod really) but its probably not the best for this audio intention.  I do also far prefer the "separate device" idea of something I can use when away or going to the gym/run/walk that is dedicated.

 

There is a lot of good feedback on the LG V30+.  Some tech sites and reviewers like Darko for example are suggesting there is no need for DAP if owning one of these.  One appeal to me is that when I travel abroad I never take my phone, so the LG having the capacity to use full WiFi on it (where available) with full internet options could be of value as the concept of a quick snap camera too. 

The Fiio M9 also reviews quite well and logically is a purpose built player as I understand it with limited WiFi options but has bluetooth

 

My headphones I use are

Sennheiser PXC 550

Sennheiser C 3.00

Sony MDR XB50 BS

None of which are outrageously special but all serve me well for their purpose.

 

I visited JB the other day and consultant their advised me they have heaps of stock of the V30+ and expects it to be on sale again prior to Christmas.  This means I can get either device within $50 bucks of each other.  ATM I am leaning toward the flexibility of the LG with its WiFi flexibility and full android operating system which has its bonuses when travelling or even out and about where there is free WiFi,  but if the information is compelling the M9 is a better option I can be swayed. 

 

thanks all, any information is appreciated.

 

 

 

[08Boss302 1,437]

Nobody?  Anybody?

?

Surely amongst this community someone has knowledge or opinion on this ?

 

 

[RankStranger 4,172]

53 minutes ago, 08Boss302 said:

Nobody?  Anybody?

?

Surely amongst this community someone has knowledge or opinion on this ?

 

 

I don’t have any personal experience but I’m happy to be your voice of reason. From what I have read and seen on the Darko videos the v30 is a no brainer for your situation. Maybe a dedicated DAP will eke another few percent of performance out of your cans but we’re not talking HE1000s here. Plus for travelling  you’ll get web browser, maps, Spotify etc. Based on what you’ve written above I’d see if there are still some v30s around for $400 and be done with it. 
 

If any dedicated DAP enthusiasts want to argue with me I’ll be at the bar 

[08Boss302 1,437]

thanks mate.

yeah, I am leaning that way heavily now. 

The added functionalilty options and the proven audio capability make it a compelling reason to grab and just utilise as a DAP.  I also came to thinking for travelling I can download some netflix into it and watch offline - a DAP cannot do this either.

 

Just going to sit tight and wait for it to show up at $400 again I think.

[dolphy 626]

If you port in to Telstra and go on a $65/m plan for 12 months, you'll get unlimited text and voice calls (domestic only) and 60gb of data. You'll get a $500 gift certificate, you can use it to buy the LG v30. Only at JB hifi. 

 

Just a thought, I'm planning of using this offer to get the missus a new iPhone 11 pro

[08Boss302 1,437]

They have different rules and offers per phone unfortunately.  I'm already with Telstra so don't qualify unless I want a, new number but in saying that I don't think the LG gets the gift card offer

 

[dolphy 626]

13 minutes ago, 08Boss302 said:

They have different rules and offers per phone unfortunately.  I'm already with Telstra so don't qualify unless I want a, new number but in saying that I don't think the LG gets the gift card offer

 

Looks like the offer changed between yesterday and today. It's now a 24 month contract and only $300 credit if the phone is less than $999.

 

You could port out to Voda or Optus for a couple of days and port back in. Also depends if your still in contract. 

 

Here's the current link. 

 

I'm not affiliated with Telstra or JB. 

 

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/pages/jb-mobile

[sly_bastard 52]

As long as you don't plan to upgrade and you ok with average audio quality then stick with the phone. Another option might be a Bluetooth amp/DAC of you want something better.

[aussievintage 4,240]

When you go with the phone, check out some of the better players available. 

 

I am using Poweramp, and the configuration capabilities with regard to special high res output drivers, bitrate, sampling rates, casting, bluetooth, etc etc, are amazing.   

[08Boss302 1,437]

1 hour ago, sly_bastard said:

As long as you don't plan to upgrade and you ok with average audio quality then stick with the phone. Another option might be a Bluetooth amp/DAC of you want something better.

This is interesting, when you say average audio quality are you referring to phones in general or the LG v30 specifically.  I ask only because it (the LGv30) is regarded well on alot of headfi websites and reviews equal to and or better than a lot of DAPs.  It probably does not have the power to run some of the more demanding headphones from what i understand, which is not likely to be of concern for me.

The phone i have now i think is pretty average, I was under the impression the LG would advance on that considerably?

 

I don't think upgrading is on the horizon for me, my iPod classic is 13yrs and still looks a week old and works well, but its lack of Bluetooth, WiFi and FLAC playability has reached a point where i want to expand.

 

[08Boss302 1,437]

1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

When you go with the phone, check out some of the better players available. 

 

I am using Poweramp, and the configuration capabilities with regard to special high res output drivers, bitrate, sampling rates, casting, bluetooth, etc etc, are amazing.   

Im in the throes of importing everything into my computer using DB poweramp and have purchased gold tier media monkey which i can use on my phone. I'll check out the power amp player also.

This I guess is another coup for the phone option - if the LG is as good of a performer as i have read things like this program/app only increase its appeal to me.

 

 

[aussievintage 4,240]

2 minutes ago, 08Boss302 said:

lack of Bluetooth, WiFi and FLAC

of course, without Wifi it can't do it, but I would include chromecast audio capability in my list for it's replacement.

[aussievintage 4,240]

Just now, 08Boss302 said:

This I guess is another coup for the phone option - if the LG is as good of a performer as i have read things like this program/app only increase its appeal to me.

 

Yes.  I am delighted with the audiophile features you can get with a player like this.

[blybo 4,739]

Why not just use your currant phone and use a Dragon Fly Cobalt as your DAC/Amp to your cans of choice? Then just upgrade the phone as need be when phone plans run out.

 

I use the Sennheiser PXC550's when I travel to my phone via bluetooth (no 3.5mm jack) and find it is fine but I'm thinking of grabbing a Dragonfly for using cabled with my laptop or iPad. Either that or buying a pair of Air Pods Pro and forget ultimate SQ when travelling and go the convenience route.

[aussievintage 4,240]

Here's a couple of screenshots of my typical audio config in Power amp, most things are configurable.

 

 

[blybo 4,739]

and yes you can use Airpods Pro with Android, just not as seamless a bluetooth connection process.

[08Boss302 1,437]

32 minutes ago, blybo said:

Why not just use your currant phone and use a Dragon Fly Cobalt as your DAC/Amp to your cans of choice? Then just upgrade the phone as need be when phone plans run out.

 

I use the Sennheiser PXC550's when I travel to my phone via bluetooth (no 3.5mm jack) and find it is fine but I'm thinking of grabbing a Dragonfly for using cabled with my laptop or iPad. Either that or buying a pair of Air Pods Pro and forget ultimate SQ when travelling and go the convenience route.

i actually havent thought of the Dragon Fly option option. I do prefer not to travel with my phone as its a joint personal/business phone and kinda ruins any travelling if you know what i mean LOL.  removing the sim card is a viable option though.

 

 

32 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Here's a couple of screenshots of my typical audio config in Power amp, most things are configurable.

 

 

 

thats impressive. solid EQ options.  Does it work in conjuction with DB poweramp or is it separate thingy all together.

 

[sly_bastard 52]

2 hours ago, 08Boss302 said:

This is interesting, when you say average audio quality are you referring to phones in general or the LG v30 specifically.  I ask only because it (the LGv30) is regarded well on alot of headfi websites and reviews equal to and or better than a lot of DAPs.

The lg is considered a great phone for audio but as a DAC/amp it is still considered low to medium tier. When considering against a DAP some sites may recommend it due to its Jack off all traits master of none variety. It's convenient, has access to streaming services and is an all in one. 

 

Compared to an amp or DAP is power is pretty low, if it's still like the older g7 which I will assume it's one 700mw per channel which is ok but not great usually want 2 watt per channel, even with its low power the noise isn't great. So overall you will lose a lot of detail and other aspects sure to this depending on headphones. For average use sure it's a great option but don't expect better than at most an average audiophile experience. If you don't know what you missing you won't miss out.

 

That is why there maybe better options like a portable amp for your iPod or a Bluetooth amp/DAC for your phone.

Edited November 15, 2019 by sly_bastard

[gat474 1,738]

I've been reading this thread with interest.   I've recently got a pair of HD58X to use with an iphone just for casual listening at work and when away from home.   After having HD600 and HD6XX I find I like the HD58X are much better suited to the output of my iphone 6s and also I prefer the sound even on the home system with a dedicated amp.

I've currently loaned a Graham Slee Voyager headphone amp from Wyndham Audio.  It's a pretty simple headphone amp only with facility for 3.5 in and 3.5 out.  It uses a 9 volt battery and also has facility for 240 volt via a wall wart or USB power.  Hardly a small device and not something I'd go jogging with (not that I jog anymore).  In terms of performance it really gives the headphone output a decent boost and drives the HD58X well enough to get way too loud if you want.

In terms of sound quality it's restricted to the signal it's receiving so I'm interested in how something like a quality headphone amp like the Voyager with an iphone as a source via 3.5 using the iphone dac compares to a dac/amp combo.

[aussievintage 4,240]

1 hour ago, 08Boss302 said:

 

thats impressive. solid EQ options.  Does it work in conjuction with DB poweramp or is it separate thingy all together.

 

I think it's quite separate

[blybo 4,739]

7 minutes ago, gat474 said:

I've been reading this thread with interest.   I've recently got a pair of HD58X to use with an iphone just for casual listening at work and when away from home.   After having HD600 and HD6XX I find I like the HD58X are much better suited to the output of my iphone 6s and also I prefer the sound even on the home system with a dedicated amp.

I've currently loaned a Graham Slee Voyager headphone amp from Wyndham Audio.  It's a pretty simple headphone amp only with facility for 3.5 in and 3.5 out.  It uses a 9 volt battery and also has facility for 240 volt via a wall wart or USB power.  Hardly a small device and not something I'd go jogging with (not that I jog anymore).  In terms of performance it really gives the headphone output a decent boost and drives the HD58X well enough to get way too loud if you want.

In terms of sound quality it's restricted to the signal it's receiving so I'm interested in how something like a quality headphone amp like the Voyager with an iphone as a source via 3.5 using the iphone dac compares to a dac/amp combo.

Take a drive to Kew and sample the Dragon Fly range with your own cans and phone at Addicted to Audio. I've bought from these guys before but not overly keen on their attitude towards sales. They are really a distributor/online retailer with a half hearted shop in reception.

[aussievintage 4,240]

10 minutes ago, gat474 said:

In terms of sound quality it's restricted to the signal it's receiving so I'm interested in how something like a quality headphone amp like the Voyager with an iphone as a source via 3.5 using the iphone dac compares to a dac/amp combo.

 

I have a little Fiio Q1, that can work as a straight 3.5mm jack headphone amp, or as a DAC/headphone amp via most phones' USB.  On some phones it makes a huge difference, and on others it sounds about the same.  

[rantan 10,548]

37 minutes ago, blybo said:

Take a drive to Kew and sample the Dragon Fly range with your own cans and phone at Addicted to Audio. I've bought from these guys before but not overly keen on their attitude towards sales. They are really a distributor/online retailer with a half hearted shop in reception.

Damn straight.

The irony is that their website is even worse. I personally won't deal with them ever again.

[A J 2,015]

The LG V30 is pretty solid - it looks like there’s a few posters here who either don’t know the specs and/or haven’t heard one - I have.

[08Boss302 1,437]

Cheers, Was your experience using it with headphones or hooked up to something. 

 

[RankStranger 4,172]

This is taken from John Darko’s latest article about DACs

 

"The AudioQuest DragonFly Cobalt (US$299) sounds far better than the average smartphone’s 3.5mm output (if it has one) but we have to weigh up the hassle of an extra dongle vs. the improvement to sound quality. In other words: is it worth it? For pretty much everything but the LG V series, I’d respond with a firm ‘yes’. The Cobalt sounds better than the LG V30/40 but the delta is small enough for me to leave it at home. Each of us must work out for ourselves if a DAC’s qualitative gains are worth the expense but also, sometimes, the inconvenience."

thought it was relevant here

 

(More thoughts on) a beginner's guide to DACs | Darko.Audio

DARKO.AUDIO

---

Watched the video? Time to think deeper.

 

[08Boss302 1,437]

cheers.

I've done a fair bit of reseach and I am confident I'll grab th LG V30+ or the LGV40 (whichever) once its back on sale.  Some reports suggest the V40 had some alterations to its volume control but from what i've reseached the DAC is the same.

 

At $400 when they're on sale and for the functionality of WiFi, Google App store access for NetFlix etc and including more current android support I think its the way to go. 

 

....one question which has now entered my mind, IF I am using the bluetooth connection to my headphones, does the well regarded DAC have as much impact or are we really looking at the 3.5mm connection deliverying the best of the DAC.

i understand aptX and aptX HD are excellent, but i am assuming the aptX and aptX HD with the quad DAC in the LG is also a step up from most phones out there in BlueTooth mode?

Also in my current phone, the aptX is showing but when i go into developer options and look at the codec being used it comes up as LDAC which i am sure is not as good as aptX.  Just want to ensure the LG supports it properly

Edited November 17, 2019 by 08Boss302

[sly_bastard 52]

12 minutes ago, 08Boss302 said:

one question which has now entered my mind, IF I am using the bluetooth connection to my headphones, does the well regarded DAC have as much impact or are we really looking at the 3.5mm connection deliverying the best of the DAC.

Zero effect on Bluetooth signal. They have a decoder in the headphones.

[08Boss302 1,437]

thank you @sly_bastard

so does that mean in essence it doesnt matter what phone/device i use with bluetooth connection to headphones as the headphones do the decoding?

the Sennheiser PXC 550 i have now are aptx HD compatable, will this be used to its best with the LG and its DAC

[aussievintage 4,240]

21 minutes ago, 08Boss302 said:

thank you @sly_bastard

so does that mean in essence it doesnt matter what phone/device i use with bluetooth connection to headphones as the headphones do the decoding?

the Sennheiser PXC 550 i have now are aptx HD compatable, will this be used to its best with the LG and its DAC

 

I think that's right. 

 

If you enable developer options on a Android phone, there is a config section in there that let's you look at and set various bluetooth config items  - like the codec to use, and that includes aptX HD, and LDAC, bits per sample, sample rate, LDAC quality, AVCRP version.  (that's what I get in Android 9 anyway).  This means that if it doesn't default to the codec you want, you can force it to use the desired one.

[08Boss302 1,437]

...so in the capacity of BlueTooth usage its really about the compatability of the type of codec between the headphone and phone (ie aptX or SBC or LDAC) being used NOT the quad DAC in the phone? The DAC in the phone is kind of being bypassed in place of the Codec?

 

But, when using the 3.5mm input the quad DAC is being used and the headphones to phone codec compatability is irrelevant as the phones DAC is being used when wired headphones are employed.

 

 

[Jovan.s1987 10]

So I have 2 DAPs & an iPhone 8+ which I use a NAOS DAC AMP with. 

 

You can go down the road of adding a portable DAC AMP to your existing phone, but it's going to drain the phones battery. 

 

You can go the LGV30+ 

 

Or the DAP. Personally, I'd go a dedicated DAP. I've got a Plenue D & Sony Walkman NW-A45... If you're wanting WiFi capabilities, probably look at the fiio range.

[blybo 4,739]

16 hours ago, Jovan.s1987 said:

You can go down the road of adding a portable DAC AMP to your existing phone, but it's going to drain the phones battery. 

THe Dragonfly Cobalt only impacts battery life by around 5%, I find just hunting for wifi whilst out and about causes a bigger drain on battery life. Having said that I personally rarely have battery life issues, but if I do I just turn wifi off.

[aussievintage 4,240]

17 hours ago, Jovan.s1987 said:

You can go down the road of adding a portable DAC AMP to your existing phone, but it's going to drain the phones battery. 

The Fiio Q1 has it's own battery.

[sly_bastard 52]

Me personally I'm stuck between the options the Sony wm1a, chord poly and the fiio q5s. Each has its advantages, for you is probably recommend the fiio q5s as the best option if you have a phone with Bluetooth 5.0 depending on needs.

[RankStranger 4,172]

@08Boss302  

LG V30+ 128GB Handset (Black) $399 (Usually $799) and More @ JB Hi-Fi

WWW.OZBARGAIN.COM.AU

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Black Friday Deal Lg v30+ Other deals Huawei Y9 Prime $299 (Was $399) Google Pixel 4 $899 (Was $1049) Google Pixel 4XL $1129 (Was $1279) Huawei P30 Pro $1099 (Was $1399) Huawei P30 $799 (Was...

 

[08Boss302 1,437]

10 hours ago, RankStranger said:

@08Boss302  

LG V30+ 128GB Handset (Black) $399 (Usually $799) and More @ JB Hi-Fi

WWW.OZBARGAIN.COM.AU

---

Black Friday Deal Lg v30+ Other deals Huawei Y9 Prime $299 (Was $399) Google Pixel 4 $899 (Was $1049) Google Pixel 4XL $1129 (Was $1279) Huawei P30 Pro $1099 (Was $1399) Huawei P30 $799 (Was...

 

thank you!

I actually also saw this earlier this morning at JB too.

Kogan have the V40thinq for $549, its $150 more expensive but has the new processor, more ram, slightly bigger screen for netflix on the fly etc.

Both run the same DAC with the V30+ the B&O offering and the V40 the meridian offering, though from what i've read there is no difference in the tuning

 

Not sure which way to go, the V30+ will suffice but having the additional ram, better camera, updated processor has appeal as it really makes it a DAP with a heap of flexibility. 

at the prices i wont go wrong either way, just gotta decide on which one..