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First tube amp advice


Mpr_65

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Guest jakeyb77
1 minute ago, betty boop said:

worth checking out options as i myself found out...one things for sure ... the OP sure has had a heads up that hey guess what tube integrated might just be ok...heck not just ok on the hulgichs that were being proclaimed as not worthy ... phoeeey to that and all the other old fashioned ideas that are often proclaimed :D 

He should buy one of those bedroom heaters you have! Lovely amp 

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7 hours ago, Mpr_65 said:

Update: 

Firstly a big thank you to Evil C!  Evil bought over a couple of his amps to try in my system.  

 

1) Melody SP1 - tube 42W Intergrated

2) Conrad Johnson CA200 - SS 180W Integrated

 

I spent several hours with both amps last night, well be honest 80% with one and 20% with the other.  I used Red Dawn interconnects from the analog Node 2 out to the amps input no additional DAC involved.

 

The CJ C200 sounded nice.  A tad warmer than the my PS Audio/Nord combination and effortlessly reached neighbour concerning levels.  Excellent bass control and mid range extension was evident. I was quite happy with the sound.

 

until....

 

The Melody, a heavy chunk metal and glass of industrial character shone in my room with the Ella's.  A beautiful synergy that created  warmth, detail and balance. I'm not a wordsmith or technical reviewer so my descriptions might lack finesse and detail but what I heard was just a lovely HiFi sound.  It was that sound you hear when  you walk into a room and you just know you're hearing quality and then you look for the source.   Airiness and space between instruments was there in spades, there was a "shimmer" to the vocals and they seemed to be placed in the soundstage exactly where they should be.  Not back for forward just in the right place.  The tracks I played where lots was going on, instruments, effects, vocals bounced along with no hint of being cluttered or smudgy.   Maybe the bass was a tad less well defined and punchy than the Ps/Nord combo but that didn't bother me as I relaxed to the warm glow of the lights.  I don't think the Ella's have sounded better.    

 

The Melody seemed to have no problem reaching what I would call reference level....the volume control (think of it as a clock face) never went beyond 17-18.

 

I've lost my tube virginity!!

 

?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We live and learn in this game!

Interesting comments Marty, the CJ is noticably better than the Melody in my home environment - but never know till you try in your system!

 

The Melody SP1 is certainly  an amazing  amp, I've vowed many times never to sell it - it's too good to sell for it's lowish market price.

 

Always good to have both I reckon, either separate like me with a tube pre / SS power amp combo  or an integrated SS and a tube for variety! ?

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3 hours ago, jakeyb77 said:

The Melody SP1 is nothing like the current stuff. It was built in Melbourne. 
I just got mine back two days ago and I was happy to have it back. 
It’s running my JBL 4435 better than any amp in my small and modest stable. 
Truly an impressive amp. 
Tony McKay ran his touch over mine and was super impressed with it. The transformers would cost $1,000 each to replace alone. 

Sounds like a great amp. Did you regret selling it Jakey?

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Guest jakeyb77
13 minutes ago, deanB said:

Sounds like a great amp. Did you regret selling it Jakey?

Haha yeah and @evil c has never let me forget it. ?

The offer came to buy it back so had to say yes. 
There’s something magic about this model. Loved by many that have had great amps. Don’t know what the secret is. You break your back lifting it. 
Anyway there are lots of great amps out there and I’m sure now that the OP has the taste, the rabbit hole will be opened wide 

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8 hours ago, Mpr_65 said:

Update: 

Firstly a big thank you to Evil C!  Evil bought over a couple of his amps to try in my system.  

 

1) Melody SP1 - tube 42W Intergrated

2) Conrad Johnson CA200 - SS 180W Integrated

 

I spent several hours with both amps last night, well be honest 80% with one and 20% with the other.  I used Red Dawn interconnects from the analog Node 2 out to the amps input no additional DAC involved.

 

The CJ C200 sounded nice.  A tad warmer than the my PS Audio/Nord combination and effortlessly reached neighbour concerning levels.  Excellent bass control and mid range extension was evident. I was quite happy with the sound.

 

until....

 

The Melody, a heavy chunk metal and glass of industrial character shone in my room with the Ella's.  A beautiful synergy that created  warmth, detail and balance. I'm not a wordsmith or technical reviewer so my descriptions might lack finesse and detail but what I heard was just a lovely HiFi sound.  It was that sound you hear when  you walk into a room and you just know you're hearing quality and then you look for the source.   Airiness and space between instruments was there in spades, there was a "shimmer" to the vocals and they seemed to be placed in the soundstage exactly where they should be.  Not back for forward just in the right place.  The tracks I played where lots was going on, instruments, effects, vocals bounced along with no hint of being cluttered or smudgy.   Maybe the bass was a tad less well defined and punchy than the Ps/Nord combo but that didn't bother me as I relaxed to the warm glow of the lights.  I don't think the Ella's have sounded better.    

 

The Melody seemed to have no problem reaching what I would call reference level....the volume control (think of it as a clock face) never went beyond 17-18.

 

I've lost my tube virginity!!

 

?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing to remember, that Evil C Clive has been around a long time. Getting him to part with it would involve the whole  ‘from dead cold hands’ problem. He has kept it because he knows it’s a good thing. Not all valve amps will give you this level of satisfaction.

 

If it has moved your world and is within your budget, be patient, put out a WTB and wait till you find one. Throwing darts as a board usually ends in tears, if you have a known combination that works, put your money there to avoid disappointment.

 

Conversely, a valve preamp is a good way to dip your toe in the water. The mentioned SupraTek represents good buying with lots of chances to roll valves. That however can be another expensive and frustrating exercise!

 

The best way to reach a happy conclusion is doing as you have done, borrow any amp or pre someone is willing to lend you and plug ‘em in. Only then  is all revealed.

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On 18/11/2019 at 7:18 PM, Al.M said:

 

Also, IMO squeezing good honest beautiful tube power loveliness via a potentially sterile SS preamp or a DAC thing defeats the purpose. Better to have a tube preamp to compliment either a tube power amp or SS/class D power amp setup if the valviness is what you are trying to chase in the first place.

Certainly a consideration.  A good tube preamp might with a better DAC might a way to go.  I'll need to demo some to see if they work well with the Nord Class D.  

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On 18/11/2019 at 7:44 PM, evil c said:

Always good to have both I reckon, either separate like me with a tube pre / SS power amp combo  or an integrated SS and a tube for variety! ?

In a perfect world Evil I'd like a tube integrated with the pre out that could be fed into the Nord Class D.  However, the Nord only has balanced inputs and I haven't seen too many integrated's with  balanced pre out connections.   However I'm sure I'm about to be proven wrong   :

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Just now, Mpr_65 said:

In a perfect world Evil I'd like a tube integrated with the pre out that could be fed into the Nord Class D.  However, the Nord only has balanced inputs and I haven't seen too many integrated's with  balanced pre out connections.   However I'm sure I'm about to be proven wrong   :

Why an integrated with pre outs for nord ? It’s either one or other :) would think ? also balanced is not a big deal if all your other gear isn’t true balanced designs and not running long lengths. I’ve run balanced and not balanced for many years :)

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37 minutes ago, betty boop said:

Why an integrated with pre outs for nord ? It’s either one or other :) would think ? also balanced is not a big deal if all your other gear isn’t true balanced designs and not running long lengths. I’ve run balanced and not balanced for many years

Just being greedy I guess, being able to go from one (tube amplification) to the other (Class D) but still having the tube front end. 

The Nord only has balanced connections there's no RCA connections into the power amp.....I guess there would be some sort of converter cable available but haven't really looked into it. 

You're right from what I've read balanced designs seem only really benefit long cable runs.

 

Just thinking out loud really.  I should just put some music on. ?

 

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23 hours ago, Ooogh said:

SupraTek represents good buying with lots of chances to roll valves. That however can be another expensive and frustrating exercise!

There’s absolutely no need to roll valves on a Supratek, it’s good to go from the start so the feared expense and frustration is not going to happen.

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52 minutes ago, Mpr_65 said:

Just being greedy I guess, being able to go from one (tube amplification) to the other (Class D) but still having the tube front end. 

The Nord only has balanced connections there's no RCA connections into the power amp.....I guess there would be some sort of converter cable available but haven't really looked into it. 

You're right from what I've read balanced designs seem only really benefit long cable runs.

 

Just thinking out loud really.  I should just put some music on. ?

 

Meh ...get a good match ....and will wish nothing else !

 

in bedroom rig with valve integrated have never once considered looking back to SS let alone any class D or anything if did suspect my speakers would turn to stone ...or most definitely should like in comparison ... after the lucidity of valves they have been enjoying :D

 

 

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Just now, betty boop said:

Meh ...get a good match ....and will wish nothing else !

 

in bedroom rig with valve integrated have never once considered looking back to SS let alone any class D or anything if did suspect my speakers would turn to stone ...or most definitely should like in comparison ... after the lucidity of valves they have been enjoying :D

 

 

Yeah he's just resisting al, trying to deny what's staring at him - tooby goodness ! ?

 

Look what's happened with Jakeyb, he's come back to the Melody fold after selling the extra Melody I had in my collection!

 

But he's sold before,  so maybe he'll cash it in @Mpr_65 for his next audio chapter!?

 

Back to XLR vs RCA, plenty of top brands go with single ended and can't say I've felt need to change. 

Easy to get adaptors anyway.

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On 13/11/2019 at 5:08 PM, evil c said:

I have reservations regarding the Nord Class D amps,  I know Nick Hulgich recommends them - but I think there is certainly  better amps to match with your Ella's.

Nice work on the Ellas.
 

I agree 100% with Evil. For my Astors I switched out a Consonance 15th anniversary tube amp for Nord monoblocks, which were better. The Consonance wasn’t powerful enough. Then I switched those out for an Elektra, which was far better again.
 

There is one for sale in the classifieds right now. I could be wrong, but I think it has some small tubes in it? My Elektra pre (pynx?) certainly does. 

 

I could hear these differences and I can’t hear the difference between much. 

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17 hours ago, Mike13 said:

Nice work on the Ellas.
 

I agree 100% with Evil. For my Astors I switched out a Consonance 15th anniversary tube amp for Nord monoblocks, which were better. The Consonance wasn’t powerful enough. Then I switched those out for an Elektra, which was far better again.
 

There is one for sale in the classifieds right now. I could be wrong, but I think it has some small tubes in it? My Elektra pre (pynx?) certainly does. 

 

I could hear these differences and I can’t hear the difference between much. 

Hi Mike13,

 

did you use the Elektra Pnyx with the Nords?  I'd be interested to hear how that combo went?

 

 

 

 

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