First tube amp advice

[evil c]

29 minutes ago, Mpr_65 said:

 

Happy to bring over an amplifier for you to try, I'll be in touch.

[kelossus]

I would personally buy a Mcintosh MC275. The MKIV and MKV's are in your price range. They won't depreciate like Primaluna gear and sound more like a traditional valve amp then most modern offerings.

[THOMO]

As others have suggested you need speakers which are designed specifically to be used with valve amps and vast majority of modern speakers are not.It might work but you will not extract the full potential of either the valve amp or the speakers.A much safer option is to use a valve preamp.

Valve amps behave differently electrically to SS and Class D which makes them far more sensitive to speaker loads.

Here is a really good overview of those differences-

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjpmMSgot7lAhXIOI8KHYJyAi0QFjAMegQICRAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Feducation.lenardaudio.com%2Fen%2F12_amps_8.html&usg=AOvVaw3yR-sxIbdxmCEYEpUnE30J

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by THOMO

[Mpr_65]

As others have suggested you need speakers which are designed specifically to be used with valve amps and vast majority of modern speakers are not.It might work but you will not extract the full potential of either the valve amp or the speakers.A much safer option is to use a valve preamp.
Valve amps behave differently electrically to SS and Class D which makes them far more sensitive to speaker loads.
Here is a really good overview of those differences-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjpmMSgot7lAhXIOI8KHYJyAi0QFjAMegQICRAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Feducation.lenardaudio.com%2Fen%2F12_amps_8.html&usg=AOvVaw3yR-sxIbdxmCEYEpUnE30J
 

Agree. Leaning towards the preamp solution now. Cheers.

[betty boop]

2 hours ago, Mpr_65 said:

Agree. Leaning towards the preamp solution now. Cheers.

has any one including self actually tried your specific speakers with just a tube integrated though ? am not so sure why so quick to write off  

[pulinap]

3 hours ago, Mpr_65 said:

Agree. Leaning towards the preamp solution now. Cheers.

I would highly recommend this:

 

https://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/rt-1-rt-2

 

Built like a tank with transformer volumes.....

[Ittaku]

1 minute ago, pulinap said:

I would highly recommend this:

 

https://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/rt-1-rt-2

 

Built like a tank with transformer volumes.....

I suspect that won't leave him much money if he decides he wants valve amplification as well though.

[pulinap]

35 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

I suspect that won't leave him much money if he decides he wants valve amplification as well though.

It is still a bargain for the price.....

 

Once in a while pre-loved ones surface on SNA

[Mpr_65]

has any one including self actually tried your specific speakers with just a tube integrated though ? am not so sure why so quick to write off [emoji4] 

No Betty haven’t had the opportunity to try tubes of any kind yet pre/power/or integrated but definitely on the to do list. Before any big decisions are made.

[mwhouston]

1 hour ago, pulinap said:

I would highly recommend this:

 

https://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/rt-1-rt-2

 

Built like a tank with transformer volumes.....

Another SNA member had one for a while moved it on. Bought it new. Not sure what that says. 

[Guest deanB]

42 minutes ago, mwhouston said:

Another SNA member had one for a while moved it on. Bought it new. Not sure what that says. 

The purist approach of no remote and seperate volume controls for each channel could prove too inconvenient over time perhaps?

Wouldn't bother me, my legs aren't painted on.

 

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, Mpr_65 said:

No Betty haven’t had the opportunity to try tubes of any kind yet pre/power/or integrated but definitely on the to do list. Before any big decisions are made.

Yeah definitely try ... I constantly surprise myself with this stuff

[pulinap]

3 hours ago, deanB said:

The purist approach of no remote and seperate volume controls for each channel could prove too inconvenient over time perhaps?

Wouldn't bother me, my legs aren't painted on.

 

Separate volume controls PITA....!

I have set them up to my listening levels and use the mute button.....

[Mpr_65]

Separate volume controls PITA....!

Have to agree. Had a Redgum amp once. I was always wondering if the balance was exactly right.

[pulinap]

12 hours ago, Mpr_65 said:

 

Have to agree. Had a Redgum amp once. I was always wondering if the balance was exactly right.

 

The ones on AM preamp has incremental steps and indicators.........and on top of that, volume pots are transformers...!

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by pulinap

[lemarquis]

+1 for trying a valve preamp. A really good one can make a huge difference on a SS (Class D?) front end. I think that's my next move some day.. One advantage also is doing away with all those large bottles!

 

Let us know how you go with delving into the mysterious world of tubes

[Mpr_65]

Update: 

Firstly a big thank you to Evil C!  Evil bought over a couple of his amps to try in my system.  

 

1) Melody SP1 - tube 42W Intergrated

2) Conrad Johnson CA200 - SS 180W Integrated

 

I spent several hours with both amps last night, well be honest 80% with one and 20% with the other.  I used Red Dawn interconnects from the analog Node 2 out to the amps input no additional DAC involved.

 

The CJ C200 sounded nice.  A tad warmer than the my PS Audio/Nord combination and effortlessly reached neighbour concerning levels.  Excellent bass control and mid range extension was evident. I was quite happy with the sound.

 

until....

 

The Melody, a heavy chunk metal and glass of industrial character shone in my room with the Ella's.  A beautiful synergy that created  warmth, detail and balance. I'm not a wordsmith or technical reviewer so my descriptions might lack finesse and detail but what I heard was just a lovely HiFi sound.  It was that sound you hear when  you walk into a room and you just know you're hearing quality and then you look for the source.   Airiness and space between instruments was there in spades, there was a "shimmer" to the vocals and they seemed to be placed in the soundstage exactly where they should be.  Not back for forward just in the right place.  The tracks I played where lots was going on, instruments, effects, vocals bounced along with no hint of being cluttered or smudgy.   Maybe the bass was a tad less well defined and punchy than the Ps/Nord combo but that didn't bother me as I relaxed to the warm glow of the lights.  I don't think the Ella's have sounded better.    

 

The Melody seemed to have no problem reaching what I would call reference level....the volume control (think of it as a clock face) never went beyond 17-18.

 

I've lost my tube virginity!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[betty boop]

9 minutes ago, Mpr_65 said:

Update: 

Firstly a big thank you to Evil C!  Evil bought over a couple of his amps to try in my system.  

 

1) Melody SP1 - tube 42W Intergrated

2) Conrad Johnson CA200 - SS 180W Integrated

 

I spent several hours with both amps last night, well be honest 80% with one and 20% with the other.  I used Red Dawn interconnects from the analog Node 2 out to the amps input no additional DAC involved.

 

The CJ C200 sounded nice.  A tad warmer than the my PS Audio/Nord combination and effortlessly reached neighbour concerning levels.  Excellent bass control and mid range extension was evident. I was quite happy with the sound.

 

until....

 

The Melody, a heavy chunk metal and glass of industrial character shone in my room with the Ella's.  A beautiful synergy that created  warmth, detail and balance. I'm not a wordsmith or technical reviewer so my descriptions might lack finesse and detail but what I heard was just a lovely HiFi sound.  It was that sound you hear when  you walk into a room and you just know you're hearing quality and then you look for the source.   Airiness and space between instruments was there in spades, there was a "shimmer" to the vocals and they seemed to be placed in the soundstage exactly where they should be.  Not back for forward just in the right place.  The tracks I played where lots was going on, instruments, effects, vocals bounced along with no hint of being cluttered or smudgy.   Maybe the bass was a tad less well defined and punchy than the Ps/Nord combo but that didn't bother me as I relaxed to the warm glow of the lights.  I don't think the Ella's have sounded better.    

 

The Melody seemed to have no problem reaching what I would call reference level....the volume control (think of it as a clock face) never went beyond 17-18.

 

I've lost my tube virginity!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good on you for checking out ...

 

see ! Well worth effort to find out. I too checked out evils melody,
 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/43217-bedroom-system/?do=findComment&comment=3795515

much came abd went through this system only a valve integrated satisfied that joy of valves   only a valve integrated can bring ...

 

[Guest deanB]

1 hour ago, Mpr_65 said:

Update: 

Firstly a big thank you to Evil C!  Evil bought over a couple of his amps to try in my system.  

 

1) Melody SP1 - tube 42W Intergrated

2) Conrad Johnson CA200 - SS 180W Integrated

 

I spent several hours with both amps last night, well be honest 80% with one and 20% with the other.  I used Red Dawn interconnects from the analog Node 2 out to the amps input no additional DAC involved.

 

The CJ C200 sounded nice.  A tad warmer than the my PS Audio/Nord combination and effortlessly reached neighbour concerning levels.  Excellent bass control and mid range extension was evident. I was quite happy with the sound.

 

until....

 

The Melody, a heavy chunk metal and glass of industrial character shone in my room with the Ella's.  A beautiful synergy that created  warmth, detail and balance. I'm not a wordsmith or technical reviewer so my descriptions might lack finesse and detail but what I heard was just a lovely HiFi sound.  It was that sound you hear when  you walk into a room and you just know you're hearing quality and then you look for the source.   Airiness and space between instruments was there in spades, there was a "shimmer" to the vocals and they seemed to be placed in the soundstage exactly where they should be.  Not back for forward just in the right place.  The tracks I played where lots was going on, instruments, effects, vocals bounced along with no hint of being cluttered or smudgy.   Maybe the bass was a tad less well defined and punchy than the Ps/Nord combo but that didn't bother me as I relaxed to the warm glow of the lights.  I don't think the Ella's have sounded better.    

 

The Melody seemed to have no problem reaching what I would call reference level....the volume control (think of it as a clock face) never went beyond 17-18.

 

I've lost my tube virginity!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's what it's all about. 

There's a Melody stockist in Springvale, DTS Hifi.

And here's some further reading. You may find the Pro-34 and Pro-88 integrateds of interest.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/melody2/1.html

 

[Guest jakeyb77]

5 hours ago, deanB said:

That's what it's all about. 

There's a Melody stockist in Springvale, DTS Hifi.

And here's some further reading. You may find the Pro-34 and Pro-88 integrateds of interest.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/melody2/1.html

 

The Melody SP1 is nothing like the current stuff. It was built in Melbourne. 
I just got mine back two days ago and I was happy to have it back. 
It’s running my JBL 4435 better than any amp in my small and modest stable. 
Truly an impressive amp. 
Tony McKay ran his touch over mine and was super impressed with it. The transformers would cost $1,000 each to replace alone. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by jakeyb77

[andyr]

5 hours ago, Mpr_65 said:

The Melody, a heavy chunk metal and glass of industrial character shone in my room with the Ella's.  A beautiful synergy that created  warmth, detail and balance. I'm not a wordsmith or technical reviewer so my descriptions might lack finesse and detail but what I heard was just a lovely HiFi sound.  It was that sound you hear when  you walk into a room and you just know you're hearing quality and then you look for the source.   Airiness and space between instruments was there in spades, there was a "shimmer" to the vocals and they seemed to be placed in the soundstage exactly where they should be.  Not back for forward just in the right place.  The tracks I played where lots was going on, instruments, effects, vocals bounced along with no hint of being cluttered or smudgy.   

 

 

Mate, I know exactly what you mean - as, I'm sure, does @Ittaku! 

 

However, there is one person here (I won't mention his name as he will probably complain to Marc that I'm, yet again, calling him out  ) who will undoubtedly say "OK, so you like listening to lashings of 2nd order HD - that's not "hifi" ... it's just a sound that appeals to you.  So your listening preferences are stuffed bcoz ... true hifi comes from the vanishingly small THD levels you get from a D class amp - with no preamp!  ".

 

Andy

 

[Guest jakeyb77]

@Mpr_65 See if you can pry the Melody off @evil c. Make him an offer he can’t refuse. 
Here’s mine running the 4435 easily. 
Dare I say the finesse and ease with which  it pushes the 4 x 15” rivals the Benchmark Amps shown. 
That’s not easy.... and then there’s the sonic ability of the thing that you’ve already mentioned. 
 

Edited November 18, 2019 by jakeyb77

[Al.M]

Also keep an eye out for 50-60w KT88 or 6550 tube based amps from Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, better quality Chinese made gear and many others and also 80w EL34 or similar tube based amps like the one I sold last year 

 

 

With 40w on low efficiency 86dB speakers it can work well enough initially but after more extended longer term listening over weeks and months on a greater range of music vs a more powerful tube amp that can give more headroom grunt it may be worth considering a longer term choice.

 

Also, swapping out the PS Audio pre Dac thing for a dedicated proper world calss preamp like

SUPRATEK - Home

WWW.SUPRATEK.COM.AU

---

Supratek Tube Valve Preamplifiers

can potentially improve things no end by another whole factor more. Infact it may be worth getting a world class preamp first and see how it goes with the Nord Class D and decide later if you need tube power amps at all. If it works out can be much more practical setup without needing to change power amp tubes every 3-4 years at several hundred $ cost, tech support for biasing (if not self biasing design) and room summer heat etc. You may achieve most of the same or more in the reverse.

 

Also, IMO squeezing good honest beautiful tube power loveliness via a potentially sterile SS preamp or a DAC thing defeats the purpose. Better to have a tube preamp to compliment either a tube power amp or SS/class D power amp setup if the valviness is what you are trying to chase in the first place.

 

Alternatively, with an integrated tube amp try using it without sending it through the SS preamp whole using the DAC section only. A dedicated tube preamp can also be connected to the integrated tube preamp but you will need to work or try it out.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Al.M

[Guest jakeyb77]

Yes there’s plenty of Consonance amps on the second hand market to try. Wonder why?

Go the Supratek option though. Great amps 

Edited November 18, 2019 by jakeyb77

[betty boop]

worth checking out options as i myself found out...one things for sure ... the OP sure has had a heads up that hey guess what tube integrated might just be ok...heck not just ok on the hulgichs that were being proclaimed as not worthy ... phoeeey to that and all the other old fashioned ideas that are often proclaimed