Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
kwtruk

Paradigm Studio 60s and choosing an amp

Recommended Posts

So i had my first Paradigm experience during the week....a set of monitor 11s and studio 60s. wow. Im upgrading from a htib, and have decided that im going to get good speakers first up. amps come and go, but speakers will last forever if looked after. so i decided on a set of Studio 60s, however, my budget for an amp is reduced....

I know its not the best approach, but once I heard those speakers, I wont be happy with something lesser. An Anthem MXR700 was powering them, but i dont think i can afford that. What amp would be suitable "minimum" to run these. For example, the Yamaha RX-V1067, at 105W?? If I run a much lower spec amp, am i going to miss much of these speakers? I will be upgrading amp in another year anyway, so will i be able to put up with a 1067 for this time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the moment I'm hoping to stick with just the one AVR, not needing a power amp. That will come later, for the moment, just 2.1 speaker set up plus an AVR. That UMC1 looks the goods though, will look into it a bit more for future reference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the moment I'm hoping to stick with just the one AVR, not needing a power amp. That will come later, for the moment, just 2.1 speaker set up plus an AVR. That UMC1 looks the goods though, will look into it a bit more for future reference.

What is your budget?

I recommended the path of seperates because you have a pair of lovely speakers. They will need a reasonable amount of power to shine. Many receiver manufacturers quote their power figures with only one or two channels driven. Emotiva quote theirs with all channels driven.

That said, once we know your budget, we can be a little more on point.

Although, check these out:

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/33486-FS-Denon-AVR-4308-Home-Theatre-Receiver-Mint-(CBR)-1200

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=93082

Edited by Vitruvian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


GDay kwtruk,

I will be receiving my Paradigm Studio 60's on Monday, just made the happy purchase on Thursday.

Having spent the money on the speakers and not planning on outlaying up to $1k for an Emotiva XPA-3, I plan on running them through my Denon 2310 which is 105w/channel, and from discussion with the guys at Eastwood hifi, it should run quite nicely.

Currently I run Paradigm 5se Mk2 speakers which are an 8" woofer and a 1" tweeter, and these crank very well with lots of nice bass and beautiful soundstage, I can only imagine how the Studios will sound.

I know everyone will say they really come to life when you put in 200W of power, but for now I cant cough up for it so this is hows its going to be, and im sure it wont be disappointing.

Anyway, the point is, once I give them a run on my amp ill give you a review and you can make your own mind up on which way you want to go.

FYI my amp was about $2000 when I bought it (Harvey Norman price), however I imported mine from Hivizone in HK and got it here landed for $1050AUD. Incredible. Great amp too I find, havent connected to anything more serious so maybe i dont know what im missing, but im loving it and to my ears it sounds bl00dy fantastic at any volume level.

PS. Where did you get your Studio 60's from? Mine were from Eastwood on special for $1999 ($2069 delivered to Melbourne). Great price I believe.

Edited by mikrad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gday mikrad that sounds great. I havent actually purchased anything yet, still making decisions. that is a great price for the 60's. i was looking at a Denon 2311 or 3311 today, and also was pointed towards a Marantz SR7005, which looks very interesting and something i hadnt considered, and it has plenty of power (125W per channel) which is enough for the me at the moment. I will wait to hear about your review of the 60's though! will you be using them for HT at all or mostly hifi?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gday mikrad that sounds great. I havent actually purchased anything yet, still making decisions. that is a great price for the 60's. i was looking at a Denon 2311 or 3311 today, and also was pointed towards a Marantz SR7005, which looks very interesting and something i hadnt considered, and it has plenty of power (125W per channel) which is enough for the me at the moment. I will wait to hear about your review of the 60's though! will you be using them for HT at all or mostly hifi?

Theres not a lot difference between the 2311 and the 3311, the real step-up is if you go to the 4311, or 4810 beast.

I am probably 70Music/30HT.

The Denon has a very good Stereo mode, and with the Paradigms makes a very good sound, nice and warm and makes you think the centre speaker is on when it isnt.

In full surround setup (I have a Paradigm Rerefence Studio CC Centre speaker, Cerwin Vega VE-5M surrounds and a HSU VTF2 Mk3 Sub), its an awesome experience even at reference levels (when the neighbours can hear it).

I dont know much about the Maranz, the only other amp ive connected to my setup was an older Yamaha RXV662 which sounded too clinical and lacked any warmth.

Also, connected to Foxtel, the Denon's Anchor Bay Video Processor makes a crap picture into a great picture which is something to think about too, remember the Denon isnt all about sound its also got a great video processor.

If you like, im in Newport so PM me and im happy to demo it for you if you want to hear the Studio 60's with my setup to see if its something you would like.

Oh yeah, I just have a new 4 day old son so we would have to pick a strategic time when they are out icon7.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't get a Yamaha with Paradigms.

The Yamaha sound is not a good match. Too forward / sharp & the speakers are pretty neutral. Onkyo or Pioneer aren't much chop with Paradigm either.

I sold Paradigm for 5 odd years (worked in retail many years ago) so I know what they are like. IME an Anthem, NAD, Arcam or Cambridge HT amp would be a much better bet as they have a warmer sound. Denon too would be OK but not as nice as the others IMO..

Have you considered just getting a warm sounding 2nd hand stereo amp in the meantime & watching your movies in stereo, till you can save up for a real decent HT amp ..... like the Anthem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


The Yamaha sound is not a good match. Too forward / sharp & the speakers are pretty neutral. Onkyo or Pioneer aren't much chop with Paradigm either.

exactly what ive been told by many people this weekend. Am going to try a Marantz sr7005 next weekend. Otherwise will look into 2nd hand a bit more, see what I can find.

Mikrad that sounds good, let us know when is a good time, im pretty flexible after 5pm all weeks and weekends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
exactly what ive been told by many people this weekend. Am going to try a Marantz sr7005 next weekend. Otherwise will look into 2nd hand a bit more, see what I can find.

Mikrad that sounds good, let us know when is a good time, im pretty flexible after 5pm all weeks and weekends.

Ok, Ill take tomorrow off work to help out around here and also receive the speakers, please PM me your mobile number and ill call you to come around to hear these beasts.

I cant wait to hear them and im sure you are in a similar boat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PS. I just put up my unpacking images in the Speakers and Subwoofers section if you like to have a look at the beasts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at the end of the day, inmho the avr should only be powering the centre/rears and sub in your system if you have an existing 2 channel amplifier. the 2 channel amp (assuming it's of reasonable quality) will provide a better feed to your fronts than most price comparable avrs, (you just have to run the 2 channel amp into the avr's pre-outs). Ideally you could have a 3 channel amp and hook up the whole front set... but they're typically quite rare!....

i noticed a significant improvement when i swapped from using the avr powering my fronts to my 2 channel amp (mind you, i don't have a centre speaker - i find that 4.1 works quite well for me!)....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


coming from my audio background, id agree with you, but unfortunately, for the next few years, space is fairly limited, so i'm sticking with the one avr, as id prefer surround before a dedicated 2-channel amp and power amps. just easier for me :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't get a Yamaha with Paradigms.

The Yamaha sound is not a good match. Too forward / sharp & the speakers are pretty neutral. Onkyo or Pioneer aren't much chop with Paradigm either.

I sold Paradigm for 5 odd years (worked in retail many years ago) so I know what they are like. IME an Anthem, NAD, Arcam or Cambridge HT amp would be a much better bet as they have a warmer sound. Denon too would be OK but not as nice as the others IMO..

Have you considered just getting a warm sounding 2nd hand stereo amp in the meantime & watching your movies in stereo, till you can save up for a real decent HT amp ..... like the Anthem.

I have used Para's for years and years, it is a little too general to suggest the house sound of Yamaha and Paradigm are incompatible; the Monitor series are very forward, the Studio's less so, and the Sig's not really at all. Also, as Yamaha's go up in range they are also less forward. I would agree that the base model Yammie's are forward to the point of brittle.

It is not my intention to be arguementative, just to suggest that there it is worth checking out any processor that has Pre-outs. This allows you to add a quality power amp/ integrated amp with Home Theatre Bypass/ Fixed Gain in due course. This would give you the best of both worlds. I use such a set up in my bedroom (Yamaha 3900 -> Cambridge Audio 840A -> Para S2 V2) and it works a treat and does not take up much space at all - my GF would have no hesitation letting me know if it was too imposing.

Any way, happy hunting!

Edited by Vitruvian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
just to suggest that there it is worth checking out any processor that has Pre-outs

I agree with you, im trying to get something that is future proof at the same time as meeting my needs and space constraints haha. The Marantz sr7005 has 7.1 Preouts plus 2nd sub preout, which i believe would go straight to a power amp yes? The subs obviously not, being active, ( i dont think i will be bothering with passive sub(s)) but as stated I will be sticking with straight to speakers for the moment. When you say the Monitors are more forward, would that mean they would give more of an impact for, say, movies and games??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with you, im trying to get something that is future proof at the same time as meeting my needs and space constraints haha. The Marantz sr7005 has 7.1 Preouts plus 2nd sub preout, which i believe would go straight to a power amp yes? The subs obviously not, being active, ( i dont think i will be bothering with passive sub(s)) but as stated I will be sticking with straight to speakers for the moment. When you say the Monitors are more forward, would that mean they would give more of an impact for, say, movies and games??

1. You are correct, you can connect the pre-outs straight into a power amp. Your pre-outs could also be connected into one set of inputs of an integrated amp that has a fixed gain or bypass channel. This would be the cheapest way to upgrade your sound. I am not suggesting that it is a 'must', rather you have an excellent set of speakers and there is no way that any AV amp is really going to let them play to their potential. Also, if you do add a power amp, the cheapest upgrade is to use an amp for your main channels, because they will be the channels used when listening to music. You can use the receiver for your centre and surrounds.

If it were my $$, I would get a second hand AV amp from the classifieds here and a seperate 2channel amp (either power only or a sweet integrated). This allows you connect a CD playerDAC directly to your integrated amp and bypass your AV processor/ DAC when listening to music. AV receivers are the quickest part of a HT to devalue. You could always sell a good integrated for most of what you pay, a receiver will be pretty much valueless in a couple of years. Just something to consider.

That said, if you are going to listen to compressed music (e.g. MP3's) and use your system for movies and games almost all the time then a receiver will serve you well.

2. When a speaker is forward they can become fatiguing to listen to either for long periods and/ or at volume. Such speakers give the illusion of detail. Your Studio's are a sweet speaker, they offer great 'bang for your buck'.

Edited by Vitruvian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I run my Paradigm Sig based system as follows....

- Speakers driven directly by a 7-channel power amp (Elektra Theatron).

- HT -> AVR via pre-outs to the Theatron except for the front mains (L&R)

- 2-channel via a Cambridge Audio 840a acting as a pre-amp with HT signal (for front L&R) sent through the CA840a as a HT-Bypass signal.

Thus I get the benefit of a dedicated 2ch 'pre' for music while still integrating seemlessly with HT setup in a combined system for a single 'Media Room'....... 8-)

NB> I think this is very similar to what Vitruvian does as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alright, that sounds good. Will definitly do that in the future. Will prob look at a 2nd hand AVR for the moment then. I would prefer surround decoding over dedicated 2-channel,which is something i can work on with separates over the years. I do not listen to mp3, can't stand them. Most of my music is in .wav format, with some less-listened to in .aac. I am starting to look into higher detail mac music options as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I run my Paradigm Sig based system as follows....

- Speakers driven directly by a 7-channel power amp (Elektra Theatron).

- HT -> AVR via pre-outs to the Theatron except for the front mains (L&R)

- 2-channel via a Cambridge Audio 840a acting as a pre-amp with HT signal (for front L&R) sent through the CA840a as a HT-Bypass signal.

Thus I get the benefit of a dedicated 2ch 'pre' for music while still integrating seemlessly with HT setup in a combined system for a single 'Media Room'....... 8-)

NB> I think this is very similar to what Vitruvian does as well.

Yep, you are correct. In my bedroom I run the Centre and surrounds from the Yamaha, the Mains are, like you, powered by a Cambridge Audio 840A. For music, I run a digital coaxial cable into a DAC and then connect that DAC into a different input channel on the 840A for listening to music. The quality difference is night and day.

In my lounge I run the Processor into an Emotiva 5-channel amp for Centre, Surrounds and Rears. The Main channels are fed into a Bel Canto Pre Amp and then on to Bel Canto Monoblock amps. For music: a transport into a DAC and into a different channel on the Pre. Again, no comparison in SQ.

alright, that sounds good. Will definitly do that in the future. Will prob look at a 2nd hand AVR for the moment then. I would prefer surround decoding over dedicated 2-channel,which is something i can work on with separates over the years. I do not listen to mp3, can't stand them. Most of my music is in .wav format, with some less-listened to in .aac. I am starting to look into higher detail mac music options as well.

You have said you have an audio background and you listen to uncompressed music - your speakers (and ears) are resolving enough for their to be an audible difference between the receiver only option and the system structures described above.

The power output of a good multi-channel amp will actually create an immersive sound stage for movies and games. I have never heard a receiver get close to creating a visceral theatre experience, they fall apart in the area of dynamics, headroom and control. Paradigms can produce a lot of bass and in order to produce that bass they will need a lot of power (e.g. as the impedence drops the current will have to increase). This is one area where the limitations of receivers for music reproduction is most apparent. That said, I have not heard every receiver on the market and there may be some real beauties out there. A receiver is utimately a 'jack of all trades', performing Decoding/ DAC/ Video processing/ Source switching/ Pre amp/ Power amp/ radio duties - all in a box. If you augment one with some selected equipment, e.g. equipment that address the compromised aspects of the reciever design, you will build something truely enjoyable. It does not have to cost the earth, it just requires some careful research.

One final point to consider; if you do get into using your mac as a source, you will certainly need to look at a DAC. The DAC's in receivers are seldom comparable to even a low cost dedicated DAC, if it well selected (e.g. Audiogd, Peachtree Audio, I use a Citypulse).

Essentially, and as with all things, you will get you pay for. Buying second hand on this forum is a great way to score some real bargains. There are also some bargins on the DTV forum.

Congratulations on purchasing your speakers. I saw the pictures you posted, they look (and sound) great. I appreciate that the suggestions here are entail much expense and point toward a few boxes rather than one. I have built my system over years and it has (and still does) give me great pleasure. I hope you have success in building a system you can simply enjoy for years to come.

Edited by Vitruvian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your inputs, they are really helping me. As I have said before, I am going to start with an AVR, then upgrade my 2-channel later. Works out more efficient for me. The jackofalltrades appeals to me for the moment. The speakers are going to be the item that i buy and leave, and upgrade the amps/powers later.

And that was not me that bought the speakers, that was Mikrad. I am yet to buy mine! I think they are a good choice though. Will be comparing them to some Monitor Audio gs20's in the next few weekends, just to get more perspective on my choices. I hear so many good things about paradigms though, its hard not to become biased already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One final point to consider; if you do get into using your mac as a source, you will certainly need to look at a DAC. The DAC's in receivers are seldom comparable to even a low cost dedicated DAC, if it well selected (e.g. Audiogd, Peachtree Audio, I use a Citypulse).

Yes definitly. One area i have been doing some research on. My macbook does optical out, but i am reading that a usb dac can get close to full decoding. Have not looked into computer audio too much for HT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah they are my speakers! :-) So far ive been ticking them over for the last couple of days on low volume, yet to get the people out of the house so I can crank them up properly.

The ultimate goal, I agree, is to get an Emotiva XPA3, which is 3 x 200WRMS to run the front 3 speakers, I got a quote last week from them for $945 delivered. That way you know the big Studios are running as well as they ever will.

Until then though, what I dont know im missing, I dont know im missing....and what im hearing im liking!

kwtruk on Saturday ill have the place to myself for a couple of hours so come on over, I got your PM ill give you a call later in the week to tee up a time, bring any music you like, or DVD, Bluray, whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best way to run in speakers without making to much noise is to download 40hz - 120hz , http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm (anything above this is un-necessary as really all your doing is loosening the woofer mechanism) then put one speaker out of phase (this will do no harm to your speakers or amp) then face them hard up against each other. This will effectively noise cancel. Leave the tones on repeat for a couple of 8 hour periods whilst at work & they should sound about as good as they are ever going to after that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Best way to run in speakers without making to much noise is to download 40hz - 120hz , http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm (anything above this is un-necessary as really all your doing is loosening the woofer mechanism) then put one speaker out of phase (this will do no harm to your speakers or amp) then face them hard up against each other. This will effectively noise cancel. Leave the tones on repeat for a couple of 8 hour periods whilst at work & they should sound about as good as they are ever going to after that.

Downloaded! Ill give it a go, thanks for that idea.

The missus has had the radio on JJJ for the last 2 days so surely it cant be far off...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Until then though, what I dont know im missing, I dont know im missing....and what im hearing im liking!

kwtruk on Saturday ill have the place to myself for a couple of hours so come on over, I got your PM ill give you a call later in the week to tee up a time, bring any music you like, or DVD, Bluray, whatever.

I like the first sentence! haha. saturday sounds good mate. will speak closer to then. enjoy those 60s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...