Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Spider27

Matching Heavy Tonearm with medium to High Compliance Cartridge

Recommended Posts

In general rule, Heavy Mass to match with low compliance cartridge. Is there a way to make medium to high compliance cart to match with heavy mass tonearm?

 

Many vintage tonearm are heavy mass and were meant to pair with low compliance MC cartridges such as Denon 103.

Nowadays, most of MM cartridges is medium to high compliance if I understood correctly and might not match well with old heavy tonearms.

 

I initially thought that putting extra weight on headshell would put more weight on cartridge so it would work but it actually add more weight on tonearm so it will do even worse.

 

In that case, how about changing  to lighter headshell? My guess is that it will reduce the weight of the overall tonearm so more compatible with medium to high compliance cartridge.

Is this correct?

 

If not, does anyone know any tweak that can make it work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, sorry.  :(

 

An arm with a heavy effective weight (like my 'Univector' - 23gm) must be used with a low compliance cartridge - like a Benz LP or ZYX Airy3.

 

If you have a very high compliance cart (like my Stanton WOS CS100 - compliance 30) ... it needs to be matched with a low eff. weight arm (for instance, a Magnepan 'Unitrac' - at 7gm - is a perfect match  :) ).

 

Andy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, andyr said:

No, sorry.  :(

 

An arm with a heavy effective weight (like my 'Univector' - 23gm) must be used with a low compliance cartridge - like a Benz LP or ZYX Airy3.

 

If you have a very high compliance cart (like my Stanton WOS CS100 - compliance 30) ... it needs to be matched with a low eff. weight arm (for instance, a Magnepan 'Unitrac' - at 7gm - is a perfect match  :) ).

 

Andy

 

Thank you. I read below article and it seems that he can reduce effective mass from 23g to 10g by reducing headshell weight, increase counterweight and remove other small parts. Isn't it proving that effective mass can be reduced by applying less on headshell and more on counter weight?

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20070525031412/www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10712&sid=af19534f42772db17ed3615924715046

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought that effective mass wasn’t relevant to the counterweight - the CW is there to counterbalance what is already a heavy arm so the cartridge has correct tracking weight. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


12 minutes ago, Mr Thorens said:

I always thought that effective mass wasn’t relevant to the counterweight - the CW is there to counterbalance what is already a heavy arm so the cartridge has correct tracking weight. 

According to the article, effective mass is all about sum of all the moments of inertia.

 

I= momentum of inertia=M×d²
M= mass of the considered part of the arm
d= distance to the pivot


Lowering the mass of the headshell causes counterweight is much closer to the pivot.

 

It is what I understood from the article but I do not know much either hence asking others who are more experienced. :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Gryffles said:

@Spider27 have you tried it? Might sound fine.....

No, have not. I am thinking to get a vintage heavy mass tonearm but do not have one yet. If possible, would like to get feedback first from others who have one and tried it before. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

47 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

 

According to the article, effective mass is all about sum of all the moments of inertia.

 

 

Correct.

 

47 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

Lowering the mass of the headshell causes counterweight to be much closer to the pivot.

 

 

Sure - as does using a lighter cart.

 

The optimum position of the c'weight is right next to the pivot.  I actually went the effort of using a belt sander to grind down one side of my c'weight - to lighten it, so I could move it right up as near as it can be to the pivot.

EDIT:  this sounds wrong - but I have 2 different weights I can use on my arm; this enabled me to use the heavier one.

 

1 hour ago, Spider27 said:

Thank you. I read below article and it seems that he can reduce effective mass from 23g to 10g by reducing headshell weight, increase counterweight and remove other small parts. Isn't it proving that effective mass can be reduced by applying less on headshell and more on counter weight?

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20070525031412/www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10712&sid=af19534f42772db17ed3615924715046

 

I haven't yet read the article but I find it difficult to believe you can turn a 'heavy' arm into a 'light' arm just by reducing headshell weight and adding to the c'weight.

 

And how would you actually confirm that this is what you'd achieved, after you'd done it?  :)

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr
Clear something up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


2 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

 

No, have not. I am thinking to get a vintage heavy mass tonearm but do not have one yet.

 

 

??

 

Your original post, here:

 

1 hour ago, Spider27 said:

 

Is there a way to make medium to high compliance cart to match with heavy mass tonearm?

 

 

suggests you already have a heavy mass tonearm?  (And a medium to high compliance cart.)

 

Andy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

??

 

Your original post, here:

 

 

suggests you already have a heavy mass tonearm?  (And a medium to high compliance cart.)

 

Andy

 

No. I do not have one yet. Thinking to purchase one like Lenco TT that comes with the arm that is heavy mass. 

 

I saw some posts that they match with this 23g heavy mass tonearm with Ortofon OM series high compliance cartridge with suggested method on the article.

 

If it can be done with Lenco original heavy mass tonearm with medium to high compliance cart, can't it be done with other vintage heavy mass tonearm too? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High mass tonearm with Ortofon OM cart - won’t work well. The OM cart is very good sounding in lighter tonearm but was flat sounding on a heavier one. A good match to put on a Lenco is the Ortofon AS212. It’s the correct length for the Lenco and matches the OM for compliance. It’s also very good sounding. 

Edited by Mr Thorens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use the Vinyl Engine site > Tools > Cartridge Resonance Evaluator.

https://www.vinylengine.com/tools.shtml

 

Put in the know variables of both Arm and Cartridge....see the separate ARM/ CART Data Bases for both that are available at the forum.

If not listed, do a search and find out the spec's then run evaluator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


As Mr Thorens says:

 

3 hours ago, Mr Thorens said:

High mass tonearm with Ortofon OM cart - won’t work well. The OM cart is very good sounding in lighter tonearm but was flat sounding on a heavier one. A good match to put on a Lenco is the Ortofon AS212. It’s the correct length for the Lenco and matches the OM for compliance. It’s also very good sounding. 

 

I would suggest the advice you got on the Lenco Forum - which you stated here:

 

3 hours ago, Spider27 said:

 

I saw some posts that they match with this 23g heavy mass tonearm with Ortofon OM series high compliance cartridge with suggested method on the article.

 

 

was related to Lenco owners wanting to do the best with the heavy arm they bought with their Lenco.  IOW - not ideal!  :)

 

So if you want a Lenco TT and an Ortofon OM ... you need to also buy an Ortofon AS212 - as Mr Thorens said.  :)  Or buy some other TT which has an arm which suits the Ortofon OM.

 

Of course, it's your choice to take the Lenco 'advice' over the advice given here.  :lol:

 

Andy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...