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Mat-with-one-t

Dammit. Who blew up my Trevor Lees TLA150’s!!??

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Ok.  Always the risk of a party.  I set up my “big rig” for a party we had for my wife at our place, but somehow everyone ended up in the front room and the music was later pumping on this system.  Noprobs!  This is what music and a loud stereo are for right!?  Having said that, why is it that someone always has to mess with the setup!!??  Then they always come to me asking where the music went.  I digress...

 

So I see some friends out to their car at some late hour, and notice that as I walk back in, the poor speakers are screaming and distorted, and then they get turned back to a reasonable (loud) dance volume.

 

background:

I’ve put together a ripper system for music and movies on a great budget:

- digital (from iPhone to spdif converter to digital in on my Dac)

- Music Labs pre and Music Labs power amp

- Denon dcd3000 CD

- Sony tuner

- m8 Audio sub one 10

- Trevor Lees TLA150 speakers

 

The  following day I notice the system sounds really muddy.  The detail’s gone.  I can’t hear anything from either Focal tweeter.  The other drivers all seem ok.

 

The power amp has stacks of grunt (250wpc).  Thus, we always take care turning up the pre, and the vol rarely goes much past a 1/8 rotation.  I reckon some “mate” has twisted the vol and blown my tweeters.  

 

So so what do I do from here?  I love those speakers, and am a huge fan of the Focal tweeters.  I can scavenge a matching set from another speaker set, but would rather not.  What is the process for confirming the diagnosis, and then best way to fix it all?

 

Remind me to hire a cheap PA next time.

 

Mat

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Sometimes 'friends' are jealous and just want to blow your stuff up.

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Dunno, maybe do a frequency sweep and see if the graphs look ok?

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Check all your EQ settings first.......................could be a practical joke rather than a jealousy attack!

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18 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

 

Sometimes 'friends' are jealous and just want to blow your stuff up.

 

10 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

Check all your EQ settings first.......................could be a practical joke rather than a jealousy attack!

 

Surprised at the above 2 posts.

 

As I see it ... it was simply that one f'wit saw the volume control and decided it needed to be turned round to max - "just for fun", right!  :(

 

Can you still buy those Focal tweeters?

 

Re. diagnosis ... did Trev have binding posts for woofers and tweeters?  If so:

  • remove the connections between woofer & tweeter BPs,
  • plug the spkr wires into the tweeter BPs

... and see if you get any sound.

 

Andy

 

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My brother has those exact same tweeters in his TLA speakers. One of them blew and the guy at Total Recoil in Thornbury repaired it for him. He said whatever you do, don't touch them yourself or he won't be able to repair them as they're really fragile.

 

http://totalrecoilspeakerrepairs.com.au/

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10 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

My brother has those exact same tweeters in his TLA speakers. One of them blew and the guy at Total Recoil in Thornbury repaired it for him. He said whatever you do, don't touch them yourself or he won't be able to repair them as they're really fragile.

 

http://totalrecoilspeakerrepairs.com.au/

Good advice I sent mine to Pat at WAR Audio after a similar event and he managed to fix them nicely too.

 

These are the replacement tweeters about $600 for the pair well worth the price they are lovely but not readily available I think Pat may have the last 2 in Aus,, Maybe.

 

 http://www.waraudio.com.au/p/8788255/focal-tc-120-td5.html

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Three things will take tweeters out;

 

  1. the tweeter was under rated for the rest of the speakers.
  2. the Xover was poorly designed  or had very low quality parts
  3. the power was over driven and produced square wave. 

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The tweeters in the Trevor Lees Speakers are yellow cone Focal TC120K Kevlar units that are different to the later model titanium dioxide grey cone 120TiD units that sound very different.

 

Nothing to do with EQ settings they are simply blown tweeter voice coils with the hair like copper wire forming the voice coil has melted and loss of signal connection. Simply stick your ear up close to the tweeter detect if any high freq sound coming from it or if speaker biwired try different connectors to test signal.

 

Sometimes a repairer can unwind them where it is broken and reconnect or solder them back at the point of breakage. The Kevlar units are very old around 20 years and eBay has spare coils for EUR 16, search for Focal Jmlab TC120k tweeter coil. Ask your local repairer how much to carry out labour and/or you source the parts.

Edited by Al.M

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When repairing or replacing the tweeters, consider installing an appropriate value of polyswitch in series with each tweeter for protection in the future.

This is probably more relevant if crossovers are 1st Order (i.e. allow more LF content through to the tweeter), but still relevant in any situation where it is possible for the tweeters to be overdriven or the amp driven into clipping.

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TC90K tweeters are about $90 each from war audio. better buy it quick not that many new around these days.

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Hello MAT

I MAY HAVE SOME OF THESE TWEETERS  AT HOME I WOULD NEED TO CHECK .

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18 hours ago, andyr said:

 

 

Surprised at the above 2 posts.

 

As I see it ... it was simply that one f'wit saw the volume control and decided it needed to be turned round to max - "just for fun", right!  :(

 

Can you still buy those Focal tweeters?

 

Re. diagnosis ... did Trev have binding posts for woofers and tweeters?  If so:

  • remove the connections between woofer & tweeter BPs,
  • plug the spkr wires into the tweeter BPs

... and see if you get any sound.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy.  Great idea.  I’ll start there....

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4 hours ago, junkmail said:

Hello MAT

I MAY HAVE SOME OF THESE TWEETERS  AT HOME I WOULD NEED TO CHECK .

Thanks mate that’d be appreciated.  I’m stuck on night shifts this week so won’t really find time to fiddle until next week.....I’ll post my findings when I get round to it....

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17 hours ago, mwhouston said:

Three things will take tweeters out;

 

  1. the tweeter was under rated for the rest of the speakers.
  2. the Xover was poorly designed  or had very low quality parts
  3. the power was over driven and produced square wave. 

I’ve read a bit about these speakers as they’re pretty lovely.  Some people on the forums here even used to build them.  It sounds like they were a bit “bespoke”, in that Trevor (in true Trevor fashion) used varying approaches and parts depending on the day.  I suspect it was due to “option 3”!  Party exuberance.....

Damn those Chemical Brothers......

Edited by Mat-with-one-t

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17 hours ago, Al.M said:

The tweeters in the Trevor Lees Speakers are yellow cone Focal TC120K Kevlar units that are different to the later model titanium dioxide grey cone 120TiD units that sound very different.

 

Nothing to do with EQ settings they are simply blown tweeter voice coils with the hair like copper wire forming the voice coil has melted and loss of signal connection. Simply stick your ear up close to the tweeter detect if any high freq sound coming from it or if speaker biwired try different connectors to test signal.

 

Sometimes a repairer can unwind them where it is broken and reconnect or solder them back at the point of breakage. The Kevlar units are very old around 20 years and eBay has spare coils for EUR 16, search for Focal Jmlab TC120k tweeter coil. Ask your local repairer how much to carry out labour and/or you source the parts.

Thanks mate.  Really helpful.  I actually live within walking distance of Total Recoil.

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5 hours ago, misternavi said:

TC90K tweeters are about $90 each from war audio. better buy it quick not that many new around these days.

How would these differ from the TC120k mentioned in this thread?

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18 hours ago, BATMAQN said:

Good advice I sent mine to Pat at WAR Audio after a similar event and he managed to fix them nicely too.

 

These are the replacement tweeters about $600 for the pair well worth the price they are lovely but not readily available I think Pat may have the last 2 in Aus,, Maybe.

 

 http://www.waraudio.com.au/p/8788255/focal-tc-120-td5.html

They seem to be a different tweeter.....

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19 minutes ago, Mat-with-one-t said:

How would these differ from the TC120k mentioned in this thread?

The TC120k are more upmarket tweeters. Very nice sound.  

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6 hours ago, surprisetech said:

When repairing or replacing the tweeters, consider installing an appropriate value of polyswitch in series with each tweeter for protection in the future.

This is probably more relevant if crossovers are 1st Order (i.e. allow more LF content through to the tweeter), but still relevant in any situation where it is possible for the tweeters to be overdriven or the amp driven into clipping.

Thanks mate.  Total Recoil are around the corner from me, so it’d be easy to consider this.  It was a concern I must admit - the Music Labs ML-825 amp seems rather powerful (250w into 😎and the vol knob always commanded some care!  

I’ll undertake diagnostic suggestions here and look into it.

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2 minutes ago, BATMAQN said:

The TC120k are more upmarket tweeters. Very nice sound.  

No worries.  I have them in my Osborn Epitomes I think......

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I’ve read a bit about these speakers as they’re pretty lovely.  Some people on the forums here even used to build them.  It sounds like they were a bit “bespoke”, in that Trevor (in true Trevor fashion) used varying approaches and parts depending on the day.  I suspect it was due to “option 3”!  Party exuberance.....
Damn those Chemical Brothers......

I’ve cranked those speakers (they used to be mine)till windows rattle but i had the benchmark amp. i suspect amp may be the culprit?

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 Not quite these are the smaller ones.

oh yeah!

there is a pair of osborns for sale in classifieds at the moment with spare set of larger focal tweeters (T121?)

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