Mat-with-one-t Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Ok. Always the risk of a party. I set up my “big rig” for a party we had for my wife at our place, but somehow everyone ended up in the front room and the music was later pumping on this system. Noprobs! This is what music and a loud stereo are for right!? Having said that, why is it that someone always has to mess with the setup!!?? Then they always come to me asking where the music went. I digress... So I see some friends out to their car at some late hour, and notice that as I walk back in, the poor speakers are screaming and distorted, and then they get turned back to a reasonable (loud) dance volume. background: I’ve put together a ripper system for music and movies on a great budget: - digital (from iPhone to spdif converter to digital in on my Dac) - Music Labs pre and Music Labs power amp - Denon dcd3000 CD - Sony tuner - m8 Audio sub one 10 - Trevor Lees TLA150 speakers The following day I notice the system sounds really muddy. The detail’s gone. I can’t hear anything from either Focal tweeter. The other drivers all seem ok. The power amp has stacks of grunt (250wpc). Thus, we always take care turning up the pre, and the vol rarely goes much past a 1/8 rotation. I reckon some “mate” has twisted the vol and blown my tweeters. So so what do I do from here? I love those speakers, and am a huge fan of the Focal tweeters. I can scavenge a matching set from another speaker set, but would rather not. What is the process for confirming the diagnosis, and then best way to fix it all? Remind me to hire a cheap PA next time. Mat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicprObe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Sometimes 'friends' are jealous and just want to blow your stuff up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPlumage Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Dunno, maybe do a frequency sweep and see if the graphs look ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicprObe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Check all your EQ settings first.......................could be a practical joke rather than a jealousy attack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, LogicprObe said: Sometimes 'friends' are jealous and just want to blow your stuff up. 10 minutes ago, LogicprObe said: Check all your EQ settings first.......................could be a practical joke rather than a jealousy attack! Surprised at the above 2 posts. As I see it ... it was simply that one f'wit saw the volume control and decided it needed to be turned round to max - "just for fun", right! Can you still buy those Focal tweeters? Re. diagnosis ... did Trev have binding posts for woofers and tweeters? If so: remove the connections between woofer & tweeter BPs, plug the spkr wires into the tweeter BPs ... and see if you get any sound. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 My brother has those exact same tweeters in his TLA speakers. One of them blew and the guy at Total Recoil in Thornbury repaired it for him. He said whatever you do, don't touch them yourself or he won't be able to repair them as they're really fragile. http://totalrecoilspeakerrepairs.com.au/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BATMAQN Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ittaku said: My brother has those exact same tweeters in his TLA speakers. One of them blew and the guy at Total Recoil in Thornbury repaired it for him. He said whatever you do, don't touch them yourself or he won't be able to repair them as they're really fragile. http://totalrecoilspeakerrepairs.com.au/ Good advice I sent mine to Pat at WAR Audio after a similar event and he managed to fix them nicely too. These are the replacement tweeters about $600 for the pair well worth the price they are lovely but not readily available I think Pat may have the last 2 in Aus,, Maybe. http://www.waraudio.com.au/p/8788255/focal-tc-120-td5.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwhouston Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Three things will take tweeters out; the tweeter was under rated for the rest of the speakers. the Xover was poorly designed or had very low quality parts the power was over driven and produced square wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) The tweeters in the Trevor Lees Speakers are yellow cone Focal TC120K Kevlar units that are different to the later model titanium dioxide grey cone 120TiD units that sound very different. Nothing to do with EQ settings they are simply blown tweeter voice coils with the hair like copper wire forming the voice coil has melted and loss of signal connection. Simply stick your ear up close to the tweeter detect if any high freq sound coming from it or if speaker biwired try different connectors to test signal. Sometimes a repairer can unwind them where it is broken and reconnect or solder them back at the point of breakage. The Kevlar units are very old around 20 years and eBay has spare coils for EUR 16, search for Focal Jmlab TC120k tweeter coil. Ask your local repairer how much to carry out labour and/or you source the parts. Edited October 23, 2019 by Al.M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surprisetech Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 When repairing or replacing the tweeters, consider installing an appropriate value of polyswitch in series with each tweeter for protection in the future. This is probably more relevant if crossovers are 1st Order (i.e. allow more LF content through to the tweeter), but still relevant in any situation where it is possible for the tweeters to be overdriven or the amp driven into clipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misternavi Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 TC90K tweeters are about $90 each from war audio. better buy it quick not that many new around these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkmail Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Hello MAT I MAY HAVE SOME OF THESE TWEETERS AT HOME I WOULD NEED TO CHECK . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 18 hours ago, andyr said: Surprised at the above 2 posts. As I see it ... it was simply that one f'wit saw the volume control and decided it needed to be turned round to max - "just for fun", right! Can you still buy those Focal tweeters? Re. diagnosis ... did Trev have binding posts for woofers and tweeters? If so: remove the connections between woofer & tweeter BPs, plug the spkr wires into the tweeter BPs ... and see if you get any sound. Andy Thanks Andy. Great idea. I’ll start there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 4 hours ago, junkmail said: Hello MAT I MAY HAVE SOME OF THESE TWEETERS AT HOME I WOULD NEED TO CHECK . Thanks mate that’d be appreciated. I’m stuck on night shifts this week so won’t really find time to fiddle until next week.....I’ll post my findings when I get round to it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, mwhouston said: Three things will take tweeters out; the tweeter was under rated for the rest of the speakers. the Xover was poorly designed or had very low quality parts the power was over driven and produced square wave. I’ve read a bit about these speakers as they’re pretty lovely. Some people on the forums here even used to build them. It sounds like they were a bit “bespoke”, in that Trevor (in true Trevor fashion) used varying approaches and parts depending on the day. I suspect it was due to “option 3”! Party exuberance..... Damn those Chemical Brothers...... Edited October 24, 2019 by Mat-with-one-t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 17 hours ago, Al.M said: The tweeters in the Trevor Lees Speakers are yellow cone Focal TC120K Kevlar units that are different to the later model titanium dioxide grey cone 120TiD units that sound very different. Nothing to do with EQ settings they are simply blown tweeter voice coils with the hair like copper wire forming the voice coil has melted and loss of signal connection. Simply stick your ear up close to the tweeter detect if any high freq sound coming from it or if speaker biwired try different connectors to test signal. Sometimes a repairer can unwind them where it is broken and reconnect or solder them back at the point of breakage. The Kevlar units are very old around 20 years and eBay has spare coils for EUR 16, search for Focal Jmlab TC120k tweeter coil. Ask your local repairer how much to carry out labour and/or you source the parts. Thanks mate. Really helpful. I actually live within walking distance of Total Recoil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 5 hours ago, misternavi said: TC90K tweeters are about $90 each from war audio. better buy it quick not that many new around these days. How would these differ from the TC120k mentioned in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 18 hours ago, BATMAQN said: Good advice I sent mine to Pat at WAR Audio after a similar event and he managed to fix them nicely too. These are the replacement tweeters about $600 for the pair well worth the price they are lovely but not readily available I think Pat may have the last 2 in Aus,, Maybe. http://www.waraudio.com.au/p/8788255/focal-tc-120-td5.html They seem to be a different tweeter..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BATMAQN Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, Mat-with-one-t said: How would these differ from the TC120k mentioned in this thread? The TC120k are more upmarket tweeters. Very nice sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 6 hours ago, surprisetech said: When repairing or replacing the tweeters, consider installing an appropriate value of polyswitch in series with each tweeter for protection in the future. This is probably more relevant if crossovers are 1st Order (i.e. allow more LF content through to the tweeter), but still relevant in any situation where it is possible for the tweeters to be overdriven or the amp driven into clipping. Thanks mate. Total Recoil are around the corner from me, so it’d be easy to consider this. It was a concern I must admit - the Music Labs ML-825 amp seems rather powerful (250w into and the vol knob always commanded some care! I’ll undertake diagnostic suggestions here and look into it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, BATMAQN said: The TC120k are more upmarket tweeters. Very nice sound. No worries. I have them in my Osborn Epitomes I think...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misternavi Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I’ve read a bit about these speakers as they’re pretty lovely. Some people on the forums here even used to build them. It sounds like they were a bit “bespoke”, in that Trevor (in true Trevor fashion) used varying approaches and parts depending on the day. I suspect it was due to “option 3”! Party exuberance..... Damn those Chemical Brothers......I’ve cranked those speakers (they used to be mine)till windows rattle but i had the benchmark amp. i suspect amp may be the culprit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misternavi Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 How would these differ from the TC120k mentioned in this thread?http://www.waraudio.com.au/p/8804889/focal-tc-90-k.htmlthey are the yellow kevlar tweeters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BATMAQN Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 17 minutes ago, misternavi said: http://www.waraudio.com.au/p/8804889/focal-tc-90-k.html they are the yellow kevlar tweeters. Not quite these are the smaller ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misternavi Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Not quite these are the smaller ones.oh yeah!there is a pair of osborns for sale in classifieds at the moment with spare set of larger focal tweeters (T121?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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