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vivianbl

Location of sound stage and image

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OP - what are quad 2057 ?

 

to get a more upfront presentation you could push the speakers back to the wall, sit up closer and listen to modern compressed, forward sounding recordings.

 

jeromelang does not take the piss 😉

 

i find planars are second only to omnis in inaccurate in soundstage recreation.

 

 

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In my limited experience, I find that speakers that have one/some of their drivers wired in opposite polarity tend to exhibit "forward" type of imaging and soundstage perspective.

 

Otoh, speakers whose drivers are all wired in the same polarity (even if not time-aligned) tend to have their soundstaging recessed into the back of their baffles.

 

Just my experience, very limited of course.

 

 

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When I newly opened a brand new cd, take it out from its jewel case and play it, the soundstage tend to sound "forward" in the context of my system.

 

However, if I were to rinse this same CD under tap water, flick off excess water and play it (still with much water droplets) through my system again, the soundstage will recess further into the back of the speakers by around 1 meter or more. 

 

There is a "layer" of something left over from the disc production that makes my system sound "forward". 

 

Rinsing under tap water largely removes this "layer" 

 

I usually avoid contaminating the surface of the disc by not using any materials to wipe the disc surface dry. 

 

Wash, flick, play.

 

I prefer recessed imaging and soundstage.

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I get a wonderful effect on Led Zep ii (MoFi) where Robert plants voice starts a few metres back, very realistic... and as he winds up it blooms forward and out into the room (he also overloads the mic a few times)... but 99% of the time it’s behind the speakers.

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22 hours ago, vivianbl said:

In my previous listening room ( previous house), the sound stage started close to the plane of the speakers (eg with the voice position) and then back from there. In my current listening room it starts about a metre behind the plane of the speakers and back from there.

 

The speakers, amplifier, sources and cables have been the same. I have subsequently changes amplifiers and cables in my current place, but the location behind the speakers hasn’t changed!

A great example of how much the room impacts the sound - as another member here on SNA used to quote often, the things that most impact the "in room" sound in priority order are:

  1. the room
  2. the room
  3. the room
  4. the speakers
  5. everything else

Changing amplifiers and cables for no change in image location helps to demonstrate this.

 

I agree with what others have said - it sounds like you have better imaging now than previously, but you could try pushing the speakers back towards the front wall to bring the image forward.

 

A bit off topic, but as others have also said above, the close miking techniques popular today don't lend themselves to creating a "holographic" sound stage like the minimal miking recordings that were done decades ago where you really heard a "sense" of the recording space reproduced in your room.

 

I have friends who have mucked with recording music from the 60s to today and I've listened to lots of recordings ranging from the simple Blumlein pair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumlein_pair to close mike'd everything.

With everything close miked, the mixing engineer has to artificially create a sound stage. 

 

One of my "old school" colleagues has a particular hatred for multiple mikes on grand pianos where the lower strings are panned hard to one side and the higher strings panned hard the other side - not how you would "hear" a piano on a stage if you were in the audience.

 

In your case, it doesn't apply - as you're listening to the same recordings old room/new room.

 

Interestingly, the same "old school" colleague that doesn't like hard panned pianos is also a quad fan - he has a set of 57's in one room and 63's in another.

It could be speaker related or room related, but the image from the 57's is more forward, and the image from the 63's is behind the speakers...both rooms sound fantastic.

 

cheers

Mike

 

 

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22 hours ago, jeromelang said:

7)  Place an unused/expired credit card (with a chip) over your power supply devices.

Does it matter which side of the card is facing up? I've heard that credit cards are directional...

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6 hours ago, jeromelang said:

In my limited experience, I find that speakers that have one/some of their drivers wired in opposite polarity tend to exhibit "forward" type of imaging and soundstage perspective.

From my recent, very hands-on experience I can tell you that wiring a driver the wrong polarity will cause a severe dip in frequency response around the cross-over frequency. Totally expected, and nothing magical there ;) 

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On 17/10/2019 at 8:22 PM, vivianbl said:

 

In my previous listening room ( previous house), the sound stage started close to the plane of the speakers (eg with the voice position) and then back from there. In my current listening room it starts about a metre behind the plane of the speakers and back from there.

 

The speakers, amplifier, sources and cables have been the same. I have subsequently changes amplifiers and cables in my current place, but the location behind the speakers hasn’t changed!

 

The room is of similar dimensions 5m by 9m, with speakers facing down the long length. The centre of the toed in speakers in previous listening room was 1.6m out from front wall and 1.4m in current room.

 

I have been trying to figure out what influences the front to back location of the sound stage. I’ve got Quad ESL 2057s ( modernised 57s). Would like to bring the front of the sound stage forward if I could!

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

 

 

 

Move back to your old house.

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For soundstage in particular, but also for tonal response, I found that nothing beats good old fashioned elbow grease (so to speak) and persistence.

 

If you're willing to put in the effort of shifting your speakers inch by inch, and changing the toe-in a few degrees at a time, you're very likely to find a massive improvement eventually. Using rulers and laser pointers and keeping notes along the way really helps.

 

I don't have much experience with bipolar speakers, but from what I read they're even more responsive to this.

 

The other elephant the room is acoustic room treatment. This can be a contentious issue in shared living rooms, but even simply treating first reflection points completely transforms the imaging of a stereo setup.

Edited by Steffen

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It's the old psycho=acoustic thing............................you get used to stuff.

 

Apparently, people enjoy listening to MP3 and the like!

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7 hours ago, jeromelang said:

When I newly opened a brand new cd, take it out from its jewel case and play it, the soundstage tend to sound "forward" in the context of my system.

 

However, if I were to rinse this same CD under tap water, flick off excess water and play it (still with much water droplets) through my system again, the soundstage will recess further into the back of the speakers by around 1 meter or more. 

 

There is a "layer" of something left over from the disc production that makes my system sound "forward". 

 

Rinsing under tap water largely removes this "layer" 

 

I usually avoid contaminating the surface of the disc by not using any materials to wipe the disc surface dry. 

 

Wash, flick, play.

 

I prefer recessed imaging and soundstage.

Must be a full moon.....

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3 hours ago, Steffen said:

From my recent, very hands-on experience I can tell you that wiring a driver the wrong polarity will cause a severe dip in frequency response around the cross-over frequency. Totally expected, and nothing magical there ;) 

Yet there many expensive speakers that are wired like that, intentionally.... nearly all of wilson speakers, some of magico's models, most of Focal's speakers...etc.

Edited by jeromelang

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3 hours ago, Steffen said:

Does it matter which side of the card is facing up? I've heard that credit cards are directional...

I've cut out the chips on expired cards, placed sticky tapes on them and stick the chips underneath platforms that host equipments at some dealers' stores. Those obnoxious and arrogant ones 😜

 

They haven't figured out why their sound had gone so bad...

 

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2 hours ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Must be a full moon.....

Tried it during day time too. Didn't know the sun gets eclipsed that often.  

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7 hours ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said:

Must be a full moon.....

It's an eternal full moon for some.

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Yes, it is possible. Any of these actions below will help:
 
1)  Invert ac orientation of your audio components
 
2)  Reverse the direction of your interconnect cables and speaker cables.
 
3)  stack your audio components on top of each other
 
4)  Place additional metallic objects on/around your audio components
 
5)  Plug in and power up a wifi modem/router next to your hifi system 
 
6)  Coil some wire fasteners along your audio cables 
 
7)  Place an unused/expired credit card (with a chip) over your power supply devices.
 
Do all the above and get their synergistic and accumulative right-in-your-face ultra forward soundstaging effect!
Ha ha. You forgot the 600kg electro magnetic thingy.

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