B&W 705's

[Horn Rock]

Currently run a pair of B&W DM602's (first version) powered by a Musical Fidelity M3i. Source music via a desktop PC and DAC (Topping D50). Mostly Spotify, occasionally audio files on the PC. I listen to a variety of genres, and I find the 602's go really well with modern music - Trop House etc. Where they don't seem to go so well is with some older rock music. Example, Jane's Addiction Ritual lo Habitual sounds overly bright and harsh even. The 602's are mounted fairly high (tweeters are at 1.6m) in a largish open plan room. Living rurally I can explore higher volume levels without annoying neighbours who are some distance away. I also have a pair of Tannoy Revolution R2's which are lovely at lower listening levels, but lack the grunt of the 602's.

 

So my question is, would a pair of B&W 705's be a significant upgrade to the 602's? Would I be able to achieve the same volume levels as the 602's, which for me, seem to go pretty hard?

[wen]

the SQ of older recordings are sometimes less than good, no system will play all types of music with aplomb, there will always be albums that sound so much better than others, changing your setup will not necessairly change this.

1.6 meters high for the tweeter is waaay to high, experiment with speaker height and placement, if the room will allow, also if WAF is a factor, this could restrict experimentation, good luck

[Horn Rock]

2 hours ago, wen said:

the SQ of older recordings are sometimes less than good,

Yeah I'm aware of that, although I doubt that's the case with Janes Addiction. Those guys were pro musicians who had access to good gear. That particular album is well produced. Queen's "I want to break free" sounds excellent, so it may be that the thrashy sound of JA might be the issue.

 

2 hours ago, wen said:

1.6 meters high for the tweeter is waaay to high,

They're at about ear height, but I'll try some different heights to see if it makes a difference.

 

2 hours ago, wen said:

there will always be albums that sound so much better than others, changing your setup will not necessairly change this.

Hmmm, I think this is the case. Still wondering whether the 705's would perform better, although I might be trying to justify spending money on more toys.....

[Wimbo]

If 602's are sounding harsh in the top end you are feeding them the harsh. 705's are a nice speaker but will sound harsh if fed Harsh. You are clipping the M3 and I suspect you also have **** on your mains.

[rogersquared]

If Janes Addiction is your thing (as it is mine) I would be avoiding metal tweeters like on the B&Ws and thinking more Spendor, Rega, Harbeth, JBL etc.

 

Paper cones, doped domes!

[Horn Rock]

18 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

If 602's are sounding harsh in the top end you are feeding them the harsh. 705's are a nice speaker but will sound harsh if fed Harsh. You are clipping the M3 and I suspect you also have **** on your mains.

Thing is though other music sounds fine, like my favourite Tropical house sounds brilliant. As for clipping, I'm pretty careful not to drive them too hard. With regard to the mains, I do live rural and my place has the last pole on our line. Is there anything I can do about that?

 

22 minutes ago, rogersquared said:

I would be avoiding metal tweeters like on the B&Ws and thinking more Spendor, Rega, Harbeth, JBL etc.

 

Paper cones, doped domes!

Hmm, food for thought.....

[Wimbo]

1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

Thing is though other music sounds fine, like my favourite Tropical house sounds brilliant. As for clipping, I'm pretty careful not to drive them too hard. With regard to the mains, I do live rural and my place has the last pole on our line. Is there anything I can do about that?

Just get an Elec to run a separate circuit with 30 amp cable. You do say you run them hard. Hence my inference to clipping. As I said, if you feed them harsh, thats whats gonna happen. If you get some 4 Series JBL's, they are more efficient but can pack a wallop to the wallet. Maybe you need to get a decent sub to smooth things over.

[Horn Rock]

19 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

Just get an Elec to run a separate circuit with 30 amp cable.

Oh okay. Will contact my Sparky buddy who lives up the road and get him to give me a quote.

21 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

If you get some 4 Series JBL's, they are more efficient but can pack a wallop to the wallet.

Will look into them.

21 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

Maybe you need to get a decent sub to smooth things over.

Tried a cheapish Sony sub, wasn't too thrilled with the results - sounded very boomy. Might look into getting something better.

 

Back to my original question. Are the 705's a big upgrade over the 602's?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

I doubt that's the case with Janes Addiction. Those guys were pro musicians who had access to good gear.

Rather large assumption. How many musicians that actually should know better have poorly produced albums………………

[Wimbo]

10 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

 

 

Back to my original question. Are the 705's a big upgrade over the 602's?

Yes. Sold both back in the day. Never really liked the 6 series, not detailed enough.

[wen]

maybe look at floorstanders, monitor audio match well with musical fidelity

[rogersquared]

20 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Example, Jane's Addiction Ritual lo Habitual sounds overly bright and harsh even.

You said this originally. The 602's have an aluminium domed tweeter. The new 705s have an aluminium domed tweeter coated with carbon. It is possible that adding the carbon has helped the brightness but most likely you will only get a proper neutral sound once you hit the diamond tweeter on the 800 series.

 

Definitely not any of the cheaper Monitor Audio as suggested above, they are even more forward than B&W.

 

It really sounds like you are looking for a speaker with a less forward sounding design. This is an intentional design point with cheaper speakers which are designed to impress with a short shop listen. After people get more experience with sound they tend to move up the range as they start to prefer a more neutral sound. Unfortunately with these bigger brands with staggered ranges, you usually only hit neutral with the highest series. i.e. B&W, Dynaudio, Monitor Audio. Headphones are the same, you can only get a neutral sound once you hit the $300+ mark.

 

You either need to spend big $ on the brand you like or switch to a neutral (ATC) or warmly voiced speaker (Spendor, Harbeth, Rega...)

[Horn Rock]

1 hour ago, rogersquared said:

most likely you will only get a proper neutral sound once you hit the diamond tweeter on the 800 series.

I've never had the pleasure of hearing an 800 speaker. On reputation alone, I think they're most desirous. My modest budget would only ever extend to a 2nd hand early version, but we remain vigilant to the appearance of such a prize. Another rare species I'd love to bag would be the Tannoy Dimension DC8, having been exposed to Tannoy's in my previous longish career in Broadcast post. Tannoy's were the staple in all the Audio Suites back in the day. There's a set of Duntech Marquis languishing on GT seemingly unloved and unwanted. A big step up in footprint, but one dreams of the possibilities of such audio furniture. 

[Soundfever]

From my experience, going from 603s2 to 705 made a big different. Sound are less boomy and more detail and cleaner. Not sure how that will react to the recording that you are listening to. I found that they can sound harsh when for near field listening and thus I have mine about 3m away.  The Kevlar mids are heavy and can be demanding on the amp. I found having a good power amp balances the mids and high so the harshness improves. Try a good musical sub like a rel May mellow the metal tweeter. Tried them with a small mk sound sub with good results.