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Satanica

Bass Traps

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1 hour ago, Satanica said:

Some more info, I have two sub-woofers positioned front and back and in the middle (2.5 metres) of each short wall (5 metres).

My mains are crossed over at 80Hz.

My thinking is if I place a bass trap that works reasonably well behind each main speaker that might not do much under 80Hz they should at least clean up some of the mess above 80Hz.

Sounds like you might be a good candidate for MSO also, just need a minidsp and run speakers full  range, wont help much with mess above 80Hz though.

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2 hours ago, frednork said:

Sounds like you might be a good candidate for MSO also, just need a minidsp and run speakers full  range, wont help much with mess above 80Hz though.

Thanks for the suggestion, I do know of MSO. Right now I'm using both a DEQX and a miniDSP. 

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4 hours ago, Tubularbells said:

 

Thx. for the info, @Tony M would be proud if I ever resorted to additional bass reinforcement.

 

Speaking of @evil c wanna sell me back the REL? 🤣

 

 

From my cold dead hands !,😁

Hmmm how much $$$ ?? 🤔

You just need to stop swapping around possies and talking to people like @frednork ! 

 

Seriously demoed a few new products that might be of interest to you, stay tuned! 😉

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9 hours ago, evil c said:

From my cold dead hands !,😁

Hmmm how much $$$ ?? 🤔

You just need to stop swapping around possies and talking to people like @frednork ! 

 

Seriously demoed a few new products that might be of interest to you, stay tuned! 😉

@evil c stop deflecting and lend him the sub at least!! and another one

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13 hours ago, essencez said:

Play around with this: https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc. You can even move around the room and see where your nulls/peaks are, this will help with placement and positioning and even tell you the amount of absorption you need.

 

I think people overestimate the amount of effect room treatment has on the FR response. Sometimes if the room ratios you're using is unfavourable there's not much all the treatment in the world can solve. EQ is much powerful tool in that regard, especially on the low end. And room treatment is used to fix issues that EQ cannot solve alone.

 

8GQO9SV.png

 

I added offsets to the measurements for easier visual comparison. First set = no eq, second set = REW + rePhase auto eq 20-400hz, third set = sonarworks, fourth set = REW + rePhase full range with house curve being slope at 500hz to -6dB at 24kHz.

 

 

 

Thanks for the link. Very interesting and confirmed  the corners of the room are the cause of the 50hz peak.

 

679063617_ScreenShot2019-10-18at9_15_44am.png.5f75f818a7780a890a517e2c2a30540f.png

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, frednork said:

@evil c stop deflecting and lend him the sub at least!! and another one

You'll keep, boffin boy ! 😬

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With all the yaks... got me intriguing... 

 

619F5DDC-09D9-49AE-8B97-592BB3DFE7FF.jpeg

72CA2144-268A-4315-84AE-39C248A77FA5.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Chanh said:

With all the yaks... got me intriguing... 

I've ordered a couple of Primacoustic MaxTraps to go behind my mains in the corners. It's a start. 

Edited by Satanica

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41 minutes ago, Satanica said:

I've ordered a couple of Primacoustic MaxTraps to go behind my mains in the corners. It's a start. 

I think you will be pleased with the decision. My preliminary observation was nothing but positive. Bass notes were much tidier, tighter, higher resolution, speedy... I can’t wait to fit on the rest, including those at rear wall (Flexifusers).... 

ADE40C7F-9A0C-45A1-930F-66831866847F.jpeg

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I managed with 4 assembled Today... currently experimenting... 

They work for me.... I have been chasing my tail and falling into Rabbit’s holes with DIY over last 36 months.... Kick myself for the stupidity from thinking diy was way to go..., killed so much invaluable time and funds unnecessarily! 

 

 

35BA912B-7149-45DF-9350-312C193B8508.jpeg

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10 hours ago, Chanh said:

I managed with 4 assembled Today... currently experimenting... 

They work for me.... I have been chasing my tail and falling into Rabbit’s holes with DIY over last 36 months.... Kick myself for the stupidity from thinking diy was way to go..., killed so much invaluable time and funds unnecessarily! 

 

 

35BA912B-7149-45DF-9350-312C193B8508.jpeg

Nice floor, what is it?

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22 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said:

Nice floor, what is it?

Not Primacoustic!😁

It is laminated timber (actual wood), this one I did actually diy..... 

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8 minutes ago, Chanh said:

Not Primacoustic!😁

It is laminated timber (actual wood), this one I did actually diy..... 

Oh right - do you remember the species? looks good, I like it

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39 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said:

Oh right - do you remember the species? looks good, I like it

Not off my head mate. It has been more than few years ago. Will do some digging for you... 

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Finally had these bad boys installed with laser precision with great success. A very pleasing outcome for me with this investment. I tried doing dual subs And found bass notes were not easy to control or achieve a desired outcome.

Question is why without dual subs, and these panels made sound better bass resolutions! Hmmmm...! 

Rear wall will be next Sunday Project. Will keep you posted if there is any interest? 😁

 

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467BC778-6839-4D8B-871B-E4607BF75104.jpeg

06F95C20-F2FE-473E-8865-C52D9ECA0D16.jpeg

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Chanh - have you done any measurements / frequency sweeps? This may tell you what is happening, and even point you how to get the most out of what you have.

 

Oh, and whats happening on the ceiling?

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42 minutes ago, AudioGeek said:

Chanh - have you done any measurements / frequency sweeps? This may tell you what is happening, and even point you how to get the most out of what you have.

 

Oh, and whats happening on the ceiling?

Will do the sweeps once I get sometime. Another Sunday project into the list. 


As for the ceiling, there were panels with double side tape..., will do em proper after the rear wall is done. Another Sunday it will be. 
 

189DC68B-51BD-4BB8-984A-4DBAAC0C023D.jpeg

FE70E9CA-5278-4E02-A4C9-5E7E59BA65E9.jpeg

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I've put my two black ones together and placed them behind my mains.
I'll get on to wall mounting them soon.

So far I think their affect is positive not just as a bass trap but as a wide-band absorber, the latter seemingly more so.

 

So the wife goes you've spent all this money and time on things that make sound and now you spend more money and time on things that remove sound.

So funny that all I could do was laugh and not even try to justify it.

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3 hours ago, Satanica said:

I've put my two black ones together and placed them behind my mains.
I'll get on to wall mounting them soon.

So far I think their affect is positive not just as a bass trap but as a wide-band absorber, the latter seemingly more so.

 

So the wife goes you've spent all this money and time on things that make sound and now you spend more money and time on things that remove sound.

So funny that all I could do was laugh and not even try to justify it.

It is rather interesting though..., I had goosebumps last-night when doing the critical listening. I pick up audible stage/recording nuisances, those were not previously there. I went back and forth to validate my observations and positively smiling within that i rediscover the musics again...., Bl00dyH3ll. 😍

 

For me, my system became much more revealing and resolute after 9.30pm every night. Therefore, I usually do my critical listening to my own setup often at 10.30pm in the evening. Cant wait to complete the rest.....        

 

 

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somehow I missed this thread till now...5 pages worth...

 

On 18/11/2019 at 8:50 AM, Chanh said:

A very pleasing outcome for me with this investment. I tried doing dual subs And found bass notes were not easy to control or achieve a desired outcome.

Question is why without dual subs, and these panels made sound better bass resolutions! Hmmmm...! 

Because the panels started to get the "in room" bass under control (ie lower reverb times <250Hz) - multiple subs won't help with reverb times, only smoothing the frequency response.

Your room and gear looks amazing - nice work 👍

 

On 18/11/2019 at 11:24 AM, AudioGeek said:

Chanh - have you done any measurements / frequency sweeps? This may tell you what is happening, and even point you how to get the most out of what you have.

^ this - including waterfall/RT measurements -  low frequencies are very hard to manage with "in room" treatment...unless you have a leaky room letting the low bass out or absorbing it.

 

@Al.M has posted this video in this thread already, but 1 point resonated (excuse the pun)...think treatment, and maybe 10x more is actually required

I only saw this this morning - great video - the demo where the voice mike is moved away from the person speaking for an untreated space vs a treated space is revealing - and that's just voice frequencies - bass frequencies are much more difficult to manage when they aren't absorbed/let out by the room.

 

IME with lightly constructed rooms, and plenty of absorption targeted at low frequencies, EQ can bridge the gap below 150Hz or so to get the "in room" bass under control.

 

In @Satanica's case with a concrete bunker, 2 or 3 Primacoustic Max Traps won't get the "in room" bass under control - and more specialist/targeted bass management will be required (eg Helmholtz, limp mass, etc)

 

I realise the Max Trap uses limp mass - it's just too small to get enough effect for a concrete bunker - a concrete bunker needs an entire ceiling of limp mass (or some other solution).

 

One of the posts above suggests using EQ first and treatment after - I disagree with this.

 

IMHO use treatment first, then EQ

 

Another post above said corner treatment made their room "too dead" - not IME - targeting corners with absorption leaves 1st/2nd/3rd etc reflections available for higher frequencies to bounce around.

 

I'm a firm believer when applying room treatment to target bass first - get the bass right and further treatment is icing on top.

Get the room bass right, and IMHO you've hit the 80/20 rule and you're done...if the room's too dead just add slats in a 1D BAD pattern over the absorption to reflect higher frequencies back into the room.

 

Unfortunately getting the bass under control is much harder with rigid room boundaries - I don't have experience with this scenario...all my low bass leaks out...

 

cheers,

mike

 

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