Bass Traps

[Snoopy8 1,968]

16 minutes ago, Satanica said:

Even if the measured response was not as good I wonder if actual ringing was reduced.

How true. Not many people know how to read and interpret the waterfall diagram in REW, which is where bass traps have the biggest impact.

[frednork 542]

35 minutes ago, Tubularbells said:

Sorry that's a Q. for @frednork as I dont have any of the graphs. I just recall seeing zero effect on 50hz down and a slightly wobblier response above compared to without. FWIW it was situated in the corner of a double brick wall besides the left speaker.

Cant seem to find that measurement with the trap but did have a good look at it on the day and it was basically the same with possibly the smallest detectable difference but the dog did walk through the room at that point so i suspect it may have moved the mic. The Sovs put out a  lot of low freq energy below 70Hz so would take a hell of a lot of trapping to significantly change it. One trap is probably a bit underdone for most situations. Wouldnt necessarily discount the effectiveness of the max trap based on this but as has been said would be good to know exactly what problem you are trying to solve when you are applying these more targeted solutions.

[Satanica 1,310]

3 minutes ago, frednork said:

Wouldnt necessarily discount the effectiveness of the max trap based on this but as has been said would be good to know exactly what problem you are trying to solve when you are applying these more targeted solutions.

I think I would like to reduce the ringing of bass frequencies in my concrete bunker.

Like I've said I don't expect these kinds of products to do much if anything below 80Hz.

[Red Spade Audio 246]

2 hours ago, Satanica said:

Interesting, can you remember how it measured worse?

I.e. was there more bass at certain frequencies where you didn't want or cuts where you didn't want, or both, or something else?

It's not unusual to see that adding bass traps can make the frequency response look worse in some regions, whilst the waterfalls are improved. In these cases the waterfall correlates better with the subjective difference.

[Stump 2,626]

Given how you need BIG bass traps to work DIY is the cost effective way to go.

Stump

 

[Satanica 1,310]

1 minute ago, Stump said:

Given how you need BIG bass traps to work DIY is the cost effective way to go.

I don't doubt that but in this regard it's not an option.

[Essence 20]

2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

While I am not allowed bass traps in my family room, I know of someone else who used 2 each in all the corners and successfully tamed the bass.  These bass traps work more effectively in corners.

Yes I had two of them on each of the rear wall corners. I think my room was too dead at that point for them to do much though.  -30dB from initial signal within first 150ms.

 

James from SoundAcoustics specified; "One LF70 bass trap in a 4 x 5 room will reduce T30 rev time at 100Hz by 20 - 25ms.  So if you have 4 and you start at 500ms you should have a result of 400ms.  If you have 8 traps you will get down to 300ms." Didn't work out in my case though.

 

I still highly recommend to go DIY or customised solution as every room is different after all. 

 

 

[Chanh 1,196]

In my case, I sent out architectural shop-drawings of my designated audio outer building and long with all electronics placements as well as the sweet listening position. I also attached photos captured of the current setup, each view of the four walls. 

I received two quotations from two different designers. One was $17.5k and the others was $14.5k. I only order portion of one design and hoping to diy the rest to save funds. That particular designer was fine with my decision. So I spent $5.5k for 2 corners at front wall, 4 fulltrap. 2 max trap for rear side walls, and 4 flexifusers for rear wall. For ceiling and sidewalk first point of reflections I plan using the existing..... for ceiling, I plan to diy some big panels to hang up at front and on top of listening position. 

 

That is my plan in a nutshells...., your constructive input is welcomed. 

 

[Peter the Greek 1,129]

On 15/10/2019 at 4:48 PM, Satanica said:

I'm in a 7 * 5 metre concrete room.

I'm considering two or three bass traps in two or three of the available corners.

The PrimAcoustic MaxTrap looks pretty good to me.

https://www.primacoustic.com/maxtrap/specifications/

Any suggestions welcome.

One option I'd encourage is going and get say 4 bags on insulation nothing sexy, just whats available. Putting them in the corners and see if it helps. If it does, great, go looking for a nicer option, if not, put the bats in your ceiling.

 

Might cost you 2-300. 

 

 

[Tubularbells 4,491]

Im giving serious thought to investing heavily into the room rather than upgrading tubes, cables, amps etc. Product im looking at is this.

 

https://awave.com.au/shop/accessories/acoustic-treatment/realtraps-megatrap-pair/

 

This is to treat a fairly nasty peak below 50hz

 

 

I reckon i'll need at least 4 pair to stack into the problem corners here.

 

 

 

And here (moving the record racks across to expose the corner).

 

 

 

Opposite end of the room is open so am not hearing much bass build up there

 

 

 

Problem is treating just these 2 corners is just shy of $3,500 so id be expecting it to do wonders but unfortunately dont think i'll be able to return them if they do not work as expected. Im also wondering whether simply EQing would be a cheaper, more elegant solution.

 

Comments/suggestions?

 

 

 

[betty boop 13,200]

53 minutes ago, Tubularbells said:

Comments/suggestions?

are there any local providers that can come actually demonstrate the difference can bring. at $3.5k it should be night and day difference is what i would be hoping. 

 

personally im not convinced on the traps you have especially below 50hz in what i have experienced traps would need to be HUGE ! so hue be impractical for your room. the trap you have i am not really sure what principle they operate on but seems like pretty thin and all air. do they do anything ? I remember us moving the one you had into one of the corners you showed in the pics above and I dont recall anything happening ? perhaps 3 more might make the benefit more apparent but will also 3 times as much  

[betty boop 13,200]

56 minutes ago, Tubularbells said:

Im giving serious thought to investing heavily into the room rather than upgrading tubes, cables, amps etc. Product im looking at is this.

 

https://awave.com.au/shop/accessories/acoustic-treatment/realtraps-megatrap-pair/

 

if 50hz is where aiming at these seem to drop off pretty strongly past 80hz ? 

 

https://realtraps.com/p_megatraps.htm

 

id suggest they are are more aimed at 80-150hz ? if am reading that correctly ? 

[mattjtaylor2809 284]

If going down the DIY road, what are good quality cheap foam corner traps I could buy? Do they come in white or just black/grey?

 

I have bought some Artnovion diffusers, absorbers & x2 bass traps (Greys online advertised the current model bass traps & sent me the older models 😡, we're in discussions!)....but with a 5X7 room, I'm going to need more corner treatment than just x1 bass trap in each corner.

 

Cheers

Matt

[Tubularbells 4,491]

1 minute ago, betty boop said:

 

if 50hz is where aiming at these seem to drop off pretty strongly past 80hz ? 

 

https://realtraps.com/p_megatraps.htm

 

id suggest they are are more aimed at 80-150hz ? if am reading that correctly ? 

 

Yeah they do drop but there apparently one of the best for treating low end bass issues. Also sent off for advice from GIK acoustics in the US (they have a free advice form) as these guys have a product called Scopus that is tuned for 40hz so that might work better however ii cannot find any GIK dealers here in Aus.

 

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-scopus-tuned-bass-trap-t40/

 

 

i agree also that i dont want to blow a ton of cash only to find a product either doesnt work or is only somewhat effective. Its a crapshoot it seems.

[Tubularbells 4,491]

Just now, mattjtaylor2809 said:

If going down the DIY road, what are good quality cheap foam corner traps I could buy? Do they come in white or just black/grey?

 

I have bought some Artnovion diffusers, absorbers & x2 bass traps (Greys online advertised the current model bass traps & sent me the older models 😡, we're in discussions!)....but with a 5X7 room, I'm going to need more corner treatment than just x1 bass trap in each corner.

 

Cheers

Matt

Forget about foam for any effective treatment below 100hz. The bass will simply pass through them as if they weren't there.

[frednork 542]

1 hour ago, Tubularbells said:

Problem is treating just these 2 corners is just shy of $3,500 so id be expecting it to do wonders but unfortunately dont think i'll be able to return them if they do not work as expected. Im also wondering whether simply EQing would be a cheaper, more elegant solution.

 

Comments/suggestions?

Have been thinking about this a bit.

 

Have no doubt these would help but 4 per side would be better so $7k, not to mention it might be difficult to fit them in. Question is how much help they provide? 

 

Considering the problem area is pretty much wholly below 100Hz I wonder whether an active solution would be much more effective and  reduce the space taken up. 

 

This thread has some good ideas

 

 

The Bag end unit has the benefit of using the live sound of the room to generate a cancelling signal so is always accurate in that sense , but may be hard to source and at new price if a guaranteed solution might be acceptable but if not you will loose 50% of the value,

 

I think the MSO solution may end up working better and be much less risky and cheaper to implement. So you'd need a mini dsp and a couple of small subs (often available on SNA)  and the software sets up the curve for the subs and would definitely reduce the 48Hz and any other peak (in the bass region as you wanted).  If it ends up you dont like the sound of it, you just resell the dsp and subs. MSO does not affect the output of the mains so your analogue setup is not affected. Happy to assist in setting this up. Once setup, it is set and forget unless you change the room / speaker positions significantly.

 

Maybe the first thing to try is to stuff as much trapping material as you can beg borrow or steal to see if you can get close to what you need (without the room looking like an insane asylum) with a passive solution. I have some traps, (some decent and some less so)  you can borrow.