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anewmission

Linear power supplies

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Been trying to decipher all the info on this thread but getting no where without the relevant electrical engineering qualifications...

 

Maybe more to the point, are there good examples on products on the market for well built LPSs or SPSs at a reasonable price? Soon to receive a D50 that I'm on the lookout for an upgraded power supply for. 

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6 minutes ago, spamnoj said:

Maybe more to the point, are there good examples on products on the market for well built LPSs or SPSs at a reasonable price? Soon to receive a D50 that I'm on the lookout for an upgraded power supply for. 

 

Borrow 1 (whatever your choices) to place nearby to your system without actually plugging it in to feed your dac. 

 

Observe soundstage changes, specifically height differences.

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7 minutes ago, spamnoj said:

Been trying to decipher all the info on this thread but getting no where without the relevant electrical engineering qualifications...

 

Maybe more to the point, are there good examples on products on the market for well built LPSs or SPSs at a reasonable price? Soon to receive a D50 that I'm on the lookout for an upgraded power supply for. 

Before it got OT (hijacked?) and I ran away, there was mention of a matching PSU earlier

For other more expensive products, I would consider Gieseler LPSUs reasonably priced and excellent quality.

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9 minutes ago, spamnoj said:

 

Maybe more to the point, are there good examples on products on the market for well built LPSs or SPSs at a reasonable price?

 

 

I regard Meanwell as a good example of a SMPS - although I would add that, in my system, my sound was better when there was an isotran + hash filter between the Meanwell and the wall socker.  And the Sbooster is a great example of a linear PS - also Clay Gieseler's.  As I have no idea of your financial position, I don't know whether you would regard them as "reasonably priced".  :)

 

Andy

 

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13 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

 

Borrow 1 (whatever your choices) to place nearby to your system without actually plugging it in to feed your dac. 

 

Observe soundstage changes, specifically height differences.

What are you hinting at Jerome? That just putting a PS near the existing one provides some sort of EMI capable of affecting SQ?

 

Again, not an EE or sparky so I'm trying to understand the concepts here, and will prefer an off the shelf solution.

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10 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

I regard Meanwell as a good example of a SMPS - although I would add that, in my system, my sound was better when there was an isotran + hash filter between the Meanwell and the wall socker.  And the Sbooster is a great example of a linear PS - also Clay Gieseler's.  As I have no idea of your financial position, I don't know whether you would regard them as "reasonably priced".  :)

 

Andy

 

Curious about the Meanwell SMPS but a quick search turns up what looks like industrial compoenents so may be out of my reach given limited knowledge with electrons and sparks.

 

May have to investigate the topping offering, as 'reasonably' to me now is no more than $150 given the DAC itself was only $300!

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Curious about the Meanwell SMPS but a quick search turns up what looks like industrial compoenents so may be out of my reach given limited knowledge with electrons and sparks.
 
May have to investigate the topping offering, as 'reasonably' to me now is no more than $150 given the DAC itself was only $300!
I have ordered the topping p50. I will let you know how it goes

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37 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

I regard Meanwell as a good example of a SMPS - although I would add that, in my system, my sound was better when there was an isotran + hash filter between the Meanwell and the wall socker.  And the Sbooster is a great example of a linear PS - also Clay Gieseler's.  As I have no idea of your financial position, I don't know whether you would regard them as "reasonably priced".  :)

 

Andy

 

After more procrastinating at work I found this:

 

https://www.power-supplies-australia.com.au/MEAN-WELL-GST25A05-P1J

 

Is this the sort of unit that you used Andy? 

 

Or wall wart style:

 

https://www.power-supplies-australia.com.au/MEAN-WELL-GE18I05-P1J

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8 hours ago, spamnoj said:

What are you hinting at Jerome? That just putting a PS near the existing one provides some sort of EMI capable of affecting SQ?

 

Again, not an EE or sparky so I'm trying to understand the concepts here, and will prefer an off the shelf solution.

No, this issue is not about whether that piece of chunky metallic object broadcasting EMI or not.

 

The issue is about what it does to surrounding audio components just by sitting there nearby in close proximity and not even plugged in and powered up.

 

Every damn piece of hi-fi components  we have in our system has to process complex audio signals, which are made up of fast-moving mixtures of level, frequency and dynamic range. These signals when passing along a wire, a circuit layout or through a component will have certain electrical properties, thus creating magnetic fields in their wake. 

These magnetic fields generate new fields by interacting with nearby and unnecessary metallic objects, (a phenomenon known as eddy current) resulting in interference. Sonically this translates into dynamic compression, shrunkened soundstaging, and bloated lower mid-bass "thump", mid and high timbre hardness.

 

Power amps by themselves generate the strongest magnetic fields. So a piece of metallic object sitting next to it will cause a even more adversarial interference than being placed next to a pre-amp, a cd player, or a dac. Still, it is advisable not to place any extraneous and unnecessary metallic objects next to the lower current hungry equipments.

 

And we had not even began to touch upon the instances when these LPS are powered up yet!

 

Magnetic field interference does diminish with distances, however. To avoid this issue with LPS, try custom making a longer umbilical cord so that it can be placed further distances away from the audio components that it is required to feed. 

Edited by jeromelang

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When custom making longer umbilical cords, remember to pay attention to the directionality of the wire being used.

 

Big freaking sonic differences!

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Everyone's free to prioritise what they feel is important. I think I'll stick to modifications that have measurable impact in terms of demonstrable stability and accuracy of voltage and limitation of transmission of noise to components and back into the mains power instead of things that may have effects that can only be measurable when looking for interstellar neutrino emissions.

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2 hours ago, spamnoj said:

Curious about the Meanwell SMPS but a quick search turns up what looks like industrial compoenents so may be out of my reach given limited knowledge with electrons and sparks.

 

May have to investigate the topping offering, as 'reasonably' to me now is no more than $150 given the DAC itself was only $300!

 

Have a look here:  https://au.element14.com/w/c/power-line-protection/power-supplies/ac-dc-converters/ac-dc-external-plug-in-adaptor-power-supplies?CMP=KNC-GAU-GEN-DSA-e14&brand=mean-well&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3JXtBRC8ARIsAEBHg4kbHtSk-RSMnibL9XbXpT-oQhr2lWbe9LuPm0FO_UDZr4_NOnjxaocaAsNyEALw_wcB

 

I'm curious why you have a problem paying more for a PS than for the DAC itself?  :)  The two are independent, in my view.

 

Andy

 

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That is a good point..
I bought the topping p50 which was made specifically for my Dac and it was about $100 less than the Dac. If I hear no improvement I will send it back and get something else...
Toppings website shows the Dac sitting right on top of the lps. And does say something about interference and the chassis being designed to accommodate that

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No, this issue is not about whether that piece of chunky metallic object broadcasting EMI or not.
 
The issue is about what it does to surrounding audio components just by sitting there nearby in close proximity and not even plugged in and powered up.
 
Every damn piece of hi-fi components  we have in our system has to process complex audio signals, which are made up of fast-moving mixtures of level, frequency and dynamic range. These signals when passing along a wire, a circuit layout or through a component will have certain electrical properties, thus creating magnetic fields in their wake. 

These magnetic fields generate new fields by interacting with nearby and unnecessary metallic objects, (a phenomenon known as eddy current) resulting in interference. Sonically this translates into dynamic compression, shrunkened soundstaging, and bloated lower mid-bass "thump", mid and high timbre hardness.
 
Magnetic field interference does diminish with distances, however.
 
Power amps by themselves generate the strongest magnetic fields. So a piece of metallic object sitting next to it will cause a even more adversary interference than being placed next to a pre-amp, a cd player, or a dac. Still, it is advisable not to place any extraneous and unnecessary metallic objects next to the lower current hungry equipments.
 
And we had not even began to touch upon the instances when these LPS are powered up yet!
 
Anyway, to avoid this issue with LPS, try custom making a longer umbilical cord so that it can be placed further distances away from the audio components that it is required to feed. 
From drop (mass drop) about the p50 lps

This power supply is made from a solid aluminum brick that provides better mechanical strength and facilitates anti-interference performance. It’s also equipped with a toroidal transformer that has little magnetic leakage and excellent noise suppression. Three TPS7A4700 low-noise linear regulators further reduce noise. Set the power to either 110V or 230V and power your Topping DAC the right way with the P50

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2 hours ago, anewmission said:


I bought the topping p50 which was made specifically for my Dac and it was about $100 less than the Dac. If I hear no improvement I will send it back and get something else...

 

 

Excellent!  :thumb:  That's the logical thing to buy for your DAC.  :)

 

2 hours ago, anewmission said:


Topping's website shows the Dac sitting right on top of the lps. And does say something about interference and the chassis being designed to accommodate that

 

 

1 hour ago, anewmission said:


This power supply is made from a solid aluminum brick that provides better mechanical strength and facilitates anti-interference performance. It’s also equipped with a toroidal transformer that has little magnetic leakage and excellent noise suppression. Three TPS7A4700 low-noise linear regulators further reduce noise. Set the power to either 110V or 230V and power your Topping DAC the right way with the P50

 

 

Jerome may have something (I've never experimented - so I can't comment).

 

So try it as per the Topping website (DAC sitting right on top of the LPS) ... and then try it Jerome's way - with the LPS as far away as you can get it from the DAC.

 

Listen, in each case, to "dynamic compression, shrunkened sound staging, bloated lower mid-bass "thump", and mid and high timbre hardness ".

 

Andy

 

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