m0rkz Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) Hi. I'm currently running a 5.0 system in my apartment and am now looking into my first sub purchase. Tossing up ideas as to which direction I should go, duals or single. Budget is around the 2k mark. Unfortunately I don't have alot of space to play with, so thinking sealed would be an easier option for placement. Room is open plan with entrance, lounge and dinning together. Use of setup would be 70% movies + tv and 30% music. First ideas are 2 x svs sb1000 vs 1 x svs sb2000. Main question is. Am I better off getting 2 smaller / lower quality subs over 1 larger / better quality sub? Cheers Ben Mo Edited October 13, 2019 by m0rkz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warweary Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Does you avr do twin subs? Some don't fyi. I reckon twin subs is nearly always the best, but that said sometimes one sub is optimum for the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rkz Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 9 hours ago, warweary said: Does you avr do twin subs? Some don't fyi. I reckon twin subs is nearly always the best, but that said sometimes one sub is optimum for the situation. Currently running a marantz sr5013. Pretty sure it has 2 sub outputs. Not 100% sure if it's independent or parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blybo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 On 12/10/2019 at 9:39 PM, m0rkz said: Hi. I'm currently running a 5.0 system in my apartment and am now looking into my first sub purchase. Tossing up ideas as to which direction I should go, duals or single. Budget is around the 2k mark. Unfortunately I don't have alot of space to play with, so thinking sealed would be an easier option for placement. Room is open plan with entrance, lounge and dinning together. Use of setup would be 70% movies + tv and 30% music. First ideas are 2 x svs sb1000 vs 1 x svs sb2000. Main question is. Am I better off getting 2 smaller / lower quality subs over 1 larger / better quality sub? Cheers Ben Mo I have a reasonably large open plan living, kitchen, dining with a double width hall opening too. If you can't close this area off I'd definitely look at ported, and 1x the 2000 or similar. If that doesn't work get a 2nd... I use a pb2000 in my HT room along with another older sub to even out response throughout the room, the 2nd sub doesn't actually increase bass levels. In my open plan area a $3k+ Rel sub does a great job with music but it wouldn't have the clout for HT use, except our non critical TV viewing, as it can't pressurise the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBurns84 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 @m0rkz I have had both subs in my system. TBH, if you're contemplating duals, have a look at the SB3000, it is a much better sub then the other 2. I moved from having dual SB2000s to just one SB3000 and it just so much more of a sub, control, flexibility and power over the other 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPlumage Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 2 x PB 2000s will have enough slam and pressurisation, no questions. However, if you can - go the PB 3000s. One of the cool features of that thing is the ability to select presets via a remote app. This means you can have dedicated crossovers set for movies and music. You will NO need to adjust the crossover settings dial manually when switching between 2 ch audio and HT if you ever combine HT and 2ch listening and require subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBurns84 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 20 hours ago, MaxPlumage said: 2 x PB 2000s will have enough slam and pressurisation, no questions. However, if you can - go the PB 3000s. One of the cool features of that thing is the ability to select presets via a remote app. This means you can have dedicated crossovers set for movies and music. You will NO need to adjust the crossover settings dial manually when switching between 2 ch audio and HT if you ever combine HT and 2ch listening and require subs. Yep..the 3000 range is the best bang for buck value in the SVS range atm. The new driver tech is really good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzingBee Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Because your room is open it's better off getting ported sub, but if you must go for sealed I recommend buy one sb 2000 first then save up for second sub. Either way, dual is better than single sub as the entire room will get more even frequency response for you + family to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaban Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Hi @m0rkz I just "upgraded" from 2x PB1000 to 1x SB2000 and frankly I'm not happy. Although you can feel the SB2000 is a superior subwoofer, the bottom end doesn't spread around my room evenly. Granted, I'm still running it in, but already I can feel more focus and energy at one or two points but not the whole room. My point: the better experience would be 2 subs, carefully located and calibrated. I'm saving up for a second SB2000, which I recommend due to your constrains in room size and requirements in performance. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I would be very careful when buying subwoofer for apartment. Getting power amp or integrated and setting up main speakers to large might be more neighbour friendly option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rkz Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 15/10/2019 at 12:02 PM, blybo said: I have a reasonably large open plan living, kitchen, dining with a double width hall opening too. If you can't close this area off I'd definitely look at ported, and 1x the 2000 or similar. If that doesn't work get a 2nd... I use a pb2000 in my HT room along with another older sub to even out response throughout the room, the 2nd sub doesn't actually increase bass levels. In my open plan area a $3k+ Rel sub does a great job with music but it wouldn't have the clout for HT use, except our non critical TV viewing, as it can't pressurise the room. Unfortunately I am very restricted for space in my apartment. 2xsb1000 I could sneak in. Or going a slightly larger single is the only other possibility. On 15/10/2019 at 12:44 PM, shogo33 said: @m0rkz I have had both subs in my system. TBH, if you're contemplating duals, have a look at the SB3000, it is a much better sub then the other 2. I moved from having dual SB2000s to just one SB3000 and it just so much more of a sub, control, flexibility and power over the other 2. Sb3000 as single is a possibility. Just means I'll have to save a bit longer as they are roughly 2.5k 7 hours ago, Irek said: I would be very careful when buying subwoofer for apartment. Getting power amp or integrated and setting up main speakers to large might be more neighbour friendly option. That's what I first did. Been trying to avoid buying a sub as to keep my neighbours happy. Even with a dedicated power amp powering my front left and right towers as full range. It still lacks the depth of what a sub would bring. I'm not looking to shake the house down. More so to fill in the gaps in the low frequency range that my front towers arnt able to produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rkz Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Sub placement is going to be less than optimal at best. I will get a floor layout of my apartment with a few photos of how my furniture and setup is arranged to hopefully give a better understanding of what I'm working with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiebosco Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, m0rkz said: Sub placement is going to be less than optimal at best. I will get a floor layout of my apartment with a few photos of how my furniture and setup is arranged to hopefully give a better understanding of what I'm working with. What is your usual playback MV? 2 x SB-1000's "should" be plenty in an apartment , especially if you're someone who is conscious/considerate of not disturbing your neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rkz Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 4 hours ago, jamiebosco said: What is your usual playback MV? 2 x SB-1000's "should" be plenty in an apartment , especially if you're someone who is conscious/considerate of not disturbing your neighbours. Mv stands for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiebosco Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Sorry - MV = Master Volume ie. how loud do you like to listen? Edited October 30, 2019 by jamiebosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rkz Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, jamiebosco said: Sorry - MV = Master Volume ie. how loud do you like to listen? On my sr5013, General free to air viewing / Netflix 55-60. Movies / music on the weekend 60-65. I think I've only gone past 65 a handful of times to show the control of the power amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Spade Audio Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The main question is impossible to answer definitively without knowing how all your possible sub positions perform (with measurements). Without some very specific information, it can go either way. Around half of the rooms that I test perform well with just one sub. I recommend one sub where none of the useful positions offer a significant advantage. In this situation, it's better to choose a single better quality sub. The other half of rooms that I measure typically fit into two main groups: 1. Those with no single position that performs well, where a second sub is actually essential. In this case, the decision is easy. 2. Those that can benefit significantly from a second sub, often due to aiming to optimise more than one seat. Here the decision is not so clear cut. SVS SB1000 are value leaders and impressive in what they offer for the price. But they are built to a price and 2000 series and even many of the older models are cleaner and more accurate. This topic of 1 vs 2 comes up every week. Often the take away is "one sub is fine for my room." WAIT! Not necessarily! I think I'm overdue for an article covering this topic properly. A mistake that many people make is buying two subs because they've heard they are better. I've tested so many systems where two actually performed worse. The benefit is not automatic. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Red Spade Audio said: A mistake that many people make is buying two subs because they've heard they are better. I've tested so many systems where two actually performed worse. The benefit is not automatic. Just not confuse anyone that actually thinks one sub is better than two after decent positioning and calibration ... I presume you're saying that without decent positioning and calibration one might measure better than two. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 12/10/2019 at 9:39 PM, m0rkz said: I'm currently running a 5.0 system in my apartment and am now looking into my first sub purchase. Tossing up ideas as to which direction I should go, duals or single. Budget is around the 2k mark. Unfortunately I don't have alot of space to play with, so thinking sealed would be an easier option for placement. Room is open plan with entrance, lounge and dinning together. Use of setup would be 70% movies + tv and 30% music. First ideas are 2 x svs sb1000 vs 1 x svs sb2000. Main question is. Am I better off getting 2 smaller / lower quality subs over 1 larger / better quality sub? Cheers Ben Mo go the one better quality sub best can afford rather than two average ones... locate that one sub to best of ability and integrate best can in the room now... if money does come down the track certainly can also consider a 2nd but i'll say for many its hard enough integrating and locating to perfection one sub two could be double trouble $2k is not a huge budget it will buy you one decent sub or two budget ones. subs add huge fun factor, id choose the one decent sub that digs deeper, hits harder and adds more fun factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Spade Audio Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 18 hours ago, Satanica said: Just not confuse anyone that actually thinks one sub is better than two after decent positioning and calibration ... I presume you're saying that without decent positioning and calibration one might measure better than two. Good point - in a nutshell yes, but I'll elaborate a bit more ... Given the way that most people position and integrate subs, one better quality sub is a safer bet. Often the decision is based on a combination of aesthetics/pragmatics and how it sounds initially. Around 80% of the time, there is a better position. It's a multi step process to find it. With one sub, it's already very difficult to find the best position, relying on how it sounds. The sub crawl will often result in a bad decision. The position that sounds best in a sub crawl, without any EQ, may actually be a poor choice. If you are using two subs, the challenge is far greater. It's like driving to work blind folded, hoping to navigate by the sound of traffic and all the car horns blaring at you! You really can't do it without measurements and the right process. The result may be inferior to a single sub, often due to sub-optimal positions and phase related cancellation. Without measurements you may not recognise that this is happening but you will certainly notice the difference when things are fully optimised. Putting a single sub into a room normally yields +/- 15 dB in the bass region. I've seen DIY efforts that worked very well. I've also seen pro jobs that were done poorly. The key point is this: I'd recommend two choices. 1. Buy one sub, the best you can afford and take your best crack at finding a good position, try as many as you can. 2. If you want to go the next step and add a second, keep in mind it will take measurements. That means either a learning journey or getting help. Reminds me of a Karate kid quote. Just after My Miyagi rescues Daniel from getting beaten up, he says: Quote Walk on road, hm? Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later, [makes squish gesture] get squish just like grape. Here, karate, same thing. Either you karate do "yes", or karate do "no". You karate do "guess so", [makes squish gesture] just like grape. Understand? In this case, if you buy two subs and plonk them down randomly, it's not so much that you get squashed like a grape. Rather, it's a missed opportunity. You're almost certainly not getting the improvement that you paid for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Red Spade Audio said: Reminds me of a Karate kid quote. Just after Mr Miyagi rescues Daniel from getting beaten up, he says: Quote Walk on road, hm? Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later, [makes squish gesture] get squish just like grape. Here, karate, same thing. Either you karate do "yes", or karate do "no". You karate do "guess so", [makes squish gesture] just like grape. Understand? It would seem that Yoda stole his saying "There is no try - only do" from Mr Miyagi! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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