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End game speakers. How is it done? What reasons?


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54 minutes ago, maximus said:

Kharma's

I was wondering which Kharma’s and first thing came to mind was the Sutras, alas not so it is instead the Exquisite Classique, just as salacious sounding name.

 

From their website the specs are:

Multilayered cabinet

Diamond concave (cone) tweeter thinner than human hair, possibly an Accuton unit

7 inch Omega midrange driver, in-house unit

12 nomex Kevlar woofer possibly a very nice Eton unit

Freq response 25 hz to 90khz, wow ? but at what +/- dB so meaningless

4 ohm

500w

90dB efficiency

Ported design

No speaker weight stated

 

Gorgeous looking externals and very organic looking

 2,83V / 1m: 90 dB
Maximum SPL: 113 dB

A4A2A07C-025F-40BD-85FA-3BE989ED67ED.jpeg

BA02A57B-1697-4D25-AB4A-D7EE6B503664.jpeg

Edited by Al.M
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Guest Muon N'
39 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Debating over which is a better end game speaker does not help with OP's question on how people get to their end game speakers and what reasons they used to arrive at their decision...

End game would be different for different people, would it not?

 

Just looking at forums It's apparent we all play the game somewhat differently, and with differing aims.

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5 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

End game would be different for different people, would it not?

 

Just looking at forums It's apparent we all play the game somewhat differently, and with differing aims.

Which is why OP has asked how each of us came to our own conclusions...  It is more about the thinking process, less about the end game speakers themselves.  Some have said they would like to live with 3 speakers and named them.  Me, I said we need to take into account budget and we have to decide for our selves when the end game is reached.  Others will never reach the end game because they enjoy the upgrading process more.  

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2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

OP's question on how people get to their end game

Number one is mostly affordability at one’s income level or a decision to spend above that ratio. Most standard income people can afford to pay more but it needs to be weighed up against other factors like family priorities and topping up retirement superannuation. Even if one can afford it there is the thought that once you walk out the door with a $100k rrp system it’s resale value drops to around 30-50% but that is not an issue for many people at that level of affordability.

 

The OP has a nice $6-8k Plinius integrated amp which should be good enough for say a low hi end setup and speakers being about $3-4K rrp two way standmount PMC, which are his weakest link. He needs to look for a much better standmount, multi-way floorstander, ESL or ribbon panel speaker or similar.

 

If his past equipment expenditure is anything to go by I would guess he might be willing to find a used, demo sale and some new speaker value of around $3-10k to get something that was worth new maybe around $10-30k. We then have options like B&W 802D, Sonus Faber Amati, Proac Response 3.8, 4 and others, VAF I 66 & I93, Kef Ref3 etc, various Martin Logan models like the Ethos ($7 rrp) upwards, old Duntech, various Dynaudio, Quad ESL If they are working etc and so on.

 

Once he gets a taste for these he can move towards his affordable elusive end game of sorts.

Edited by Al.M
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Guest Muon N'
8 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Which is why OP has asked how each of us came to our own conclusions...  It is more about the thinking process, less about the end game speakers themselves.  Some have said they would like to live with 3 speakers and named them.  Me, I said we need to take into account budget and we have to decide for our selves when the end game is reached.  Others will never reach the end game because they enjoy the upgrading process more.  

I agree pretty much agree with that, except that some will continue the chase as often there are trade offs each time, but maybe that is a budget constraint also.

 

*shrug*

Back to, I agree :thumb:

Edited by Muon N'
missed a word, damn it!
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14 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Serhan + Swift Brigadier

$6000 rrp here https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/review-serhan-swift-brigadier-mu2-stand-mount-speakers looks like it’s using expensive Scanspeak ring radiator tweeter and 7 inch slit cone paper woofer, nice. Depending on one’s tastes and expectations would it have the dedicated midrange detail and bass slam of a large multi-way speaker for an end game. I would not expect so but remain open to hearing it for my self. I have the same tweeter unit in my DIY speaker and it’s certainly capable of an end game in some multi-way driver speaker as commercial speaker manufacturers have implemented.

 

C37FB94E-C0C7-4DD7-BCBB-BD2DF85677BD.jpeg

Edited by Al.M
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52 minutes ago, Al.M said:

$6000 rrp here https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/review-serhan-swift-brigadier-mu2-stand-mount-speakers looks like it’s using expensive Scanspeak ring radiator tweeter and 7 inch slit cone paper woofer, nice. Depending on one’s tastes and expectations would it have the dedicated midrange detail and bass slam of a large multi-way speaker.

The ones at the show was the latest SE edition with improved cross overs and just under $8K.  Prior to listening to the Brigadiers, I would fully agree.  Hence, my shock that this little 2 way speakers were more than holding their own in the Music Fidelity  room. Prior to hearing them, would have never voted for a small 2 way speaker as my pick of the show, eating humble pie  now...  Did not miss bass slam on them but others complain that I am "bass light"!  ? 

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On 16/10/2019 at 9:38 AM, kab said:

I remember hearing these and a pair of FX-1's at CES 78 at old Sydney Showgrounds.

 

Now those were the days when you had to visit twice just to get a glimpse of everything once at a HiFi show......I think it might of been the first time ME Amps were ever shown as well.

Edited by Tweaky
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 21/10/2019 at 12:09 AM, Al.M said:

$6000 rrp here https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/review-serhan-swift-brigadier-mu2-stand-mount-speakers looks like it’s using expensive Scanspeak ring radiator tweeter and 7 inch slit cone paper woofer, nice. Depending on one’s tastes and expectations would it have the dedicated midrange detail and bass slam of a large multi-way speaker for an end game. I would not expect so but remain open to hearing it for my self. I have the same tweeter unit in my DIY speaker and it’s certainly capable of an end game in some multi-way driver speaker as commercial speaker manufacturers have implemented.

 

C37FB94E-C0C7-4DD7-BCBB-BD2DF85677BD.jpeg

I own a pair of these. It’s a 5” woofer, and sure they don’t compete with big floortsanders in terms of outright weight and slam, but they are just a brilliant speaker that I am enjoying listening to very often.  ?

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On 12/10/2019 at 2:33 PM, blakey72 said:

the Tannoy Arden's

 

On 12/10/2019 at 2:33 PM, blakey72 said:

These older companies must have something right.

Definitely NOT the enclosures in this case. Horrible, resonant, unbraced boxes. Put them in a decent enclosure and they can be quite nice.

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I'm new to this, but honestly I think what people forget is that "endgame" is just another way of saying "compromise". Sound reproduction is always a compromise. People who have settled on endgame speakers have simply (finally) come to terms with what that compromise sounds like for them personally. 

 

I don't know there's any shortcut to figuring that out, sadly. 

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7 hours ago, twofires said:

I'm new to this, but honestly I think what people forget is that "endgame" is just another way of saying "compromise". Sound reproduction is always a compromise. People who have settled on endgame speakers have simply (finally) come to terms with what that compromise sounds like for them personally. 

 

I don't know there's any shortcut to figuring that out, sadly. 

Life is a compromise - there's no mystery or secret.

 

'Endgame' merely says, "for me at this time, this is the very best I'm going to do for me".

And then you can stop.

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1 hour ago, candyflip said:

Life is a compromise - there's no mystery or secret.

 

'Endgame' merely says, "for me at this time, this is the very best I'm going to do for me".

And then you can stop.

I realised that my post might look like I think compromise is a thing to be avoided - I actually meant the opposite. I look forward to finding my audio compromise.

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Guest jakeyb77
19 minutes ago, A9X said:

Is the snark really necessary?

No snark. Just an observation of people. The internet is here for my enjoyment. 

 

says the guy that posted this.......

then lost his cajones 

210CA818-C7D3-4419-929F-AD85CD189504.jpeg
 

I’d have had more respect for you if you left it. I thought it was funny 

Edited by jakeyb77
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9 minutes ago, jakeyb77 said:

I’d have had more respect for you if you left it. I thought it was funny 

Too many preciouses around here who run to mummy and complain.

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For me end game was reached by getting really busy.  Far too busy to even think about touching my systems.  I currently have three, two with speakers designed by myself and one with YG Acoustics Carmel (supported by a cylindrical-wave subwoofer array along the front wall).  When you're not listening to the system but instead to the music... 

 

Admittedly all nice systems and each set up for their own use (e.g. main listening, office), but I currently find them each enjoyable to listen through and feel no need to make any changes.

 

The perfect speaker doesn't exist and can't.  Our hearing is far too sensitive to directional cues to ever be fully convinced, and speaker design is always about balancing compromises. 

Edited by Buffle
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Did for me.
From last years show following the Krix demo room... After finally being able to hear their Series X subs in person, well set up, I replaced my four Velodyne Digital Dries with 2x Cyclonix. More sensitive, more dynamics for less watts and pair better with the mains.
Which also resulted in by-product of replacing my processor with an Anthem AVM50 ex demo at the same time...

Curious anyone changed their mind about their end game speakers after going to the Hifi show?
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For me, the end game is a process of self discovery and learning.

 

It can't be quantified by the money you spend, nor the number of setups you own / owned.

 

Will I ever reach end-game? Probably not, but I will only get closer to my end-game as I get older and my ears start to fail.

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