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Show us your Pre Amps....

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50 minutes ago, mwhouston said:

I had a discussion with another guy on another forum that a power amp with a attenuator is NOT an integrated amp. It’s a power amp with an attenuator. A power amp with an active preamp amp is an integrated amp. He couldn’t agree. Some here may well not also. 

Well it is common, even normal, for a power amp to have a level control, so I have to agree with you here.

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1 hour ago, mwhouston said:

I had a discussion with another guy on another forum that a power amp with a attenuator is NOT an integrated amp. It’s a power amp with an attenuator. A power amp with an active preamp amp is an integrated amp. He couldn’t agree. Some here may well not also. 

 

Hah - I'm with you, Mark!  :lol:

 

Inevitably there will be people - ftf in real life or on an internet forum  - who have wrong ideas ... which they passionately believe in.  Just because they're passionate - doesn't mean a. they're right ... and b. we should embrace those ideas as well.

 

Case in point ... a friend of my wife is a judge - so, supposedly, a person with quite a few neurons.  Yet at a recent book club meeting, she told my wife that aborigines had been in Australia for a million years - not just 60,000!  Evidently, an aboriginal speaker at some event she'd attended had told her that (so it must be true!  :lol: ).  She wouldn't accept that 1 million years was well before the rise of homo sap - so aborigines couldn't possibly have been in Oz for that period of time!

 

Andy

 

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1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

Well it is common, even normal, for a power amp to have a level control, so I have to agree with you here.

 

I would say it is in fact rare for a power amp to have a level control, av.  The only one I've ever come across in over 40 years of interest in hifi equipment was one of Hugh Dean's AKSA amps which he put a volume control into, as a customer had asked him for this.

 

Andy

 

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5 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

I would say it is in fact rare for a power amp to have a level control, av.  The only one I've ever come across in over 40 years of interest in hifi equipment was one of Hugh Dean's AKSA amps which he put a volume control into, as a customer had asked him for this.

 

Andy

 

Maybe it's because you have seen more high end stuff than me, but things like this

 

NAD 2100

 

are what I am used to.

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1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

 

what I have?   I think you mean someone else

 

 

Yes - sorry for the confusion.  :(

 

Quote

 

A phono stage with a level control is another new thing.  Never used to see that when we started out.  :thumbsup:

 

 

True - but in fact there could be a couple of good reasons for having a volume control in a phono stage.  I've investigated doing this to my 'Muse'  :) :

 

1.  you're a purist when it comes to your vinyl replay - so your system consists of:

  • a TT
  • a phono stage,
  • a power amp, and
  • speakers.

2.  you feed the output of your phono stage into an A2D converter - and thence into the digital input of your DSP unit.  For best performance, you want the input signal level for the A2D to be less than its clipping level.

 

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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Here is an example of a power amp with an attenuator.  I think in this case they were trying to make a very nice minimalist system startling with a very regarded tube power amp. No need for preamp or a source with level control. I’ve built this amp but kept it a SE UL amp. One of the best sounding low power tube amps I have ever built. 

 

Ill post a link to my build.

 

http://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKC.html

 

https://retro-thermionic.blogspot.com/2015/11/el84-se-ul-power-amp-with-attenuator.html

 

 

Edited by mwhouston

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49 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Hah - I'm with you, Mark!  :lol:

 

Inevitably there will be people - ftf in real life or on an internet forum  - who have wrong ideas ... which they passionately believe in.  Just because they're passionate - doesn't mean a. they're right ... and b. we should embrace those ideas as well.

 

Case in point ... a friend of my wife is a judge - so, supposedly, a person with quite a few neurons.  Yet at a recent book club meeting, she told my wife that aborigines had been in Australia for a million years - not just 60,000!  Evidently, an aboriginal speaker at some event she'd attended had told her that (so it must be true!  :lol: ).  She wouldn't accept that 1 million years was well before the rise of homo sap - so aborigines couldn't possibly have been in Oz for that period of time!

 

Andy

 

Definitely not a researcher by profession. She needs to understand the source of the data is critical :thumb:

 

Tis a worry in holding such a position :(

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1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

Maybe it's because you have seen more high end stuff than me, but things like this

 

NAD 2100

 

are what I am used to.

A lot of pro amps have attenuator's on them. Can also be used in HiFi.

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16 hours ago, andyr said:

 

But, M, a preamp generally offers:

  1. source selection,
  2. volume control, and
  3. gain.

The front of yours seems to have:

  • an on/off switch, and
  • a volume knob.

I presume it has gain - but where's the source selection?

 

Andy

 

Today's modern sources have quite adequate output, to be more simply used with a passive volume control. In the 1960's preamps were common providing particularly selection of different cartridge loading, and offering equalisation to match tape playback. They served their purpose well back then. 

 

Today though, a stand alone DAC and phono preamp offers  just as much ability as before, by tailoring to exactly what is required, and suits passive volume control that can have as many inputs as required. Some ( hanging on to the preamp era ) may argue that there is loss in passives and you always need amplification still of the source component,  but this is quite unfounded  as amplifying a source further always involves adding distortion or tonal colouration, and is immediately apparent, once you have compared one to the other.    All one needs to do is observe the sensitivity rating on a given power amplifier to match to a passive rather than an active preamp. Typical figures are sensitivity of 1.5v or less for full output and resistance loading of 20k ohms or more. 

 

But there is no arguing, the preamps here look good.   

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3 hours ago, stereo coffee said:

Today's modern sources have quite adequate output, to be more simply used with a passive volume control.

 

If by 'modern sources' ... you are a taking a digital view of things, Chris.  :lol:

 

Quote

 

Typical figures are sensitivity of 1.5v or less for full output and resistance loading of 20k ohms or more. 

 

 

A typical MM phono stage has a gain of 40dB (= 100x).  Therefore, with a standard MM cart (nominally 5mV output) ... the output will be nominally 500mV.

 

A typical MC phono stage has a gain of 60-66dB (= 1000x - 2000x).  Therefore, even using the 2000x gain with a higher output MC - like the Hana, at 0.5mV - you still only get 1v out.

 

Neither of them achieve the input level you specified for a typical power amp.  :)

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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My M2X requires 2.75 Volts in for max power of 25 Watts.

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I should start a "show us your power amps" thread.

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46 minutes ago, Batty said:

My M2X requires 2.75 Volts in for max power of 25 Watts.

My Quad 306 amplifiers each have 0.375mv sensitivity for 50 watts output. 

I can compile a list of amplifiers offering sensitivity below 1v,  if that might help.  

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33 minutes ago, Batty said:

I should start a "show us your power amps" thread.

And turntables, and Digital front ends and speakers...

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3 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

And turntables, and Digital front ends and speakers...

and passive volume controls.. 

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