I Have No Idea What I'm Doing

[jareda]

Hey guys, i'm new here, new to the audiophile world, and have been bitten by the bug extremely badly and starting to build my setup - with not a clue on what i'm doing. 

 

I've always been a big fan of stereos, but never had the pleasure of listening to an proper audiophile setup, or any understanding of how good sound can get - previously I thought my Yamaha NS-51 HT setup was top tier. A couple months ago I had the pleasure of being introduced to the audiophile world after buying a retro piece of furniture from a gumtree user - only to discover his record room and to experience Jeff Buckley's Grace on a pair of Klipsch Forte III's. I immediately found a new hobby to start spending ridiculous money on. 

 

Anyways, he sold me some gear to get me started and let me off into the wild. 

 

Up until last week, my setup consisted of the following

 

Phono - Technics SL-D3

Cartridge - Shure M97x

Amp - Yamaha R-S700

Speakers - Pioneer HPM-60

 

Then last week I see he's selling a pair of ESS AMT3 Rock Monitors, did some googling and knew I needed to have them. 

 

So a week in, I'm blown away by the sound of these things compared to the HPMs which already had impressed me, but I now know I have a severely underwhelming setup powering the AMTs. I know they have so much more potential, but what to do from here leaves me lost.  I'm in no rush (nor have the budget) to go out and buy brand new equipment, i'm happy to watch classifieds and  wait for a bargain., but what I should focus on leaves me confused.

 

So my questions for you -

What's holding my setup back?

What would be your priority of items to upgrade?

Should I look to add a pre-amp instead of using my amps build in phono stage?

I also want to add a streaming DAC, I'm looking at the Yamaha WXC-50, is there a better option in the same price range?

 

Thanks in advance for your suggestoins and sorry for the long post! Here's a pic of my setup currently. 

 

 

 

[Guest thathifiguy]

It's all downhill from here. Welcome!

[gemini07]

Take a deep breath, go for a long walk, smell the roses, work out your life priorities and do not spend any more money until you've listened carefully to as many other systems as you can for at least three months.

 

Remember the phrase - 'like a kid in a lolly shop'.....? 

 

(We've all done it, by the way...)

[aussievintage]

I guess my upgrade priority would be

 

1. Stylus

2.  and/or cartridge

3. Phono preamp

 

but vinyl is very much my thing, so I would do it first.  However, I note you want a DAC so maybe, for you, do that first, then the phono stuff...

[Guest]

Keep a weather eye out for a Pioneer A400 amp. Relatively cheap, great performer and fairly easy to sell if you find it doesn't suit.

[blakey72]

Yeah slow down tigar. A rug and better positioning will be a free upgrade for a start. So you want to stream I'm guessing. Do you have a laptop you could use for this purpose? 

[blakey72]

Is the cart the M97xE?

[Guest]

Dig the old rangefinder. I've got a few myself

 

[jareda]

Thanks for the welcome everyone!

 

56 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

Yeah slow down tigar. A rug and better positioning will be a free upgrade for a start. So you want to stream I'm guessing. Do you have a laptop you could use for this purpose? 

 

Not too much I can do about positioning, it's the only spare wall in the house and puts music into living spaces and not bedrooms! There's a rug just below the photo as well! 

 

I've currently just got an Ipad wired via RCA but hoping for something that can make the most of 24 bit & Tidal streaming. 

 

And yes the stylus is an M97Xe

[Nigel]

HAHA - you've already had the best advice. Wait !!

 Often guys on SNA will have GTG's, get togethers,  go along and check out what people have, how it is set up, and they're all different.

Take your time, or if you're wealthy, just buy and sell stuff...

 

As already pointed out, you won't see too many set-ups with a speaker jammed in the corner of a room, but many residences don't provide the option to bring the speakers

out from the walls. Actually you could try that with your current gear, move the speakers out and see what that does....

 

good luck

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Nigel said:

HAHA - you've already had the best advice. Wait !!

 Often guys on SNA will have GTG's, get togethers,  go along and check out what people have, how it is set up, and they're all different.

Take your time, or if you're wealthy, just buy and sell stuff...

 

As already pointed out, you won't see too many set-ups with a speaker jammed in the corner of a room, but many residences don't provide the option to bring the speakers

out from the walls. Actually you could try that with your current gear, move the speakers out and see what that does....

 

good luck

 

I'm in that position, sadly. I need to convince the missus to let me convert the formal dining area into a music room. Once I do that I can buy those speakers I really want. And the HiFi rack. And another 20 cubes for records... And the power supply.. And the.... Oh f*ck.

 

OP learn from our mistakes. Stop before it's too late.

 

[CMATT]

Hi Guys

im new to your forum 

im about to move into a new place and open to suggestions on the latest products available ( on a smart budget) to enjoy music in a servant style at your fingertips type of  activation 

 

 

[mkaramazov]

Great set up there - gorgeous speakers . 

 

As others have advised,  stop and reflect on what you have.  Play with speaker positioning.  Try supporting your turntable better,  try to optimise what you have.  Listen to other systems to work out what you like before spending more money.  

 

Have fun! 

[Wimbo]

Go and get some https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10pcs-Rubber-White-Round-Feet-Protector-Pads-25x20x13mm-for-Table-Chair/401762049780?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60098%26meid%3Da94c6c5609bf4eaa96ae4834c5 and stick them under the corners of your speakers unless there is some there already. Then you need to give your speakers room to breathe and image. There will be no image where you have them ATM.

[blakey72]

3 hours ago, jareda said:

 

I've currently just got an Ipad wired via RCA but hoping for something that can make the most of 24 bit & Tidal streaming. 

 

And yes the stylus is an M97Xe

If you want a good 'budget' start this dac plugs into a regular USB port and sounds amazing streaming tidal/tidal mastering for the price. I think the speakers are good for now, the amp isn't bad the turntable is a decent starter, cart is good. If you can isolate the turntable it may help. Mount it on a shelf on the wall perhaps. Not sure how good the phono pre is on the Yamaha. This little fella I use with my budget setup certainly bettered my amps (Cambridge Audio) phono pre. Very good for the dollars.

[LogicprObe]

 

The phono inputs are great on my 70's and 80's Yamaha amps..........................not sure what the later ones are like but I can't imagine Yamaha making bad ones.

[Impulsessz]

Like gemini says take a breath.
Enjoy the ride
You need to set yourself a budget.
I visited a hifi show and my 1st purchase were b&W dm100i bookshelf speakers (1980's). A fantastic speaker for there price point ( back when they were still made in UK ). I've always been a believer that a good 2 CH stereo system sounds better than any H.T. Setup ever could for a particular price point...take the music you like into as many hi-fi retailers as you can & Audition the many speakers available until you find a sound you like. Most manufacturers have there own signature sound which you'll discover as time permits. To give you an example British loudspeakers had nice mid/treble while American carried a more bass orientated dynamic. You in for a heck of a ride. Ide recommend finding your signature speaker sound you could spend many yrs with and build from there. It takes many iterations before reaching audio nirvana

Troy

[Nigel]

I wouldn't start comparing components such as dacs until I've sorted out speakers and positioning. What might sound better with the current speakers may sound totally different with different speakers. The golden rule in hi-fi about what is most important....

 Speakers

Room

 

{Daylight }

 Everything else

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Nigel said:

I wouldn't start comparing components such as dacs until I've sorted out speakers and positioning. What might sound better with the current speakers may sound totally different with different speakers. The golden rule in hi-fi about what is most important....

 Speakers

Room

 

{Daylight }

 Everything else

 

Right on.

 

You forgot big VU meters. They are VERY important

 

[Tweaky]

Like others have said, not much you can do with the speakers positioned where you have them.

I'm surprised to not hear of the stylus not jumping out of the groove, what with your speaker stuck in the corner and having the turntable sited so close to it, you must be getting some smearing from vibrations, as the speaker in the corner is going to be putting out a lot more bass than it otherwise would, and not in a good way, more of in a boomy way.

 

Some cheap upgrades would be some form of isolation platform for your turntable.

Those are easy enough to cobble together with a couple of wooden chopping boards, or similar [see instruction in link below] and a set of Vibrapods to build a Viprapod sandwich make sure you get the boards and weight them before you order the Vibrapods so you get the correct ones.

.http://www.vibrapod.com/isolatorinstallation.htm

 

Another cheap upgrade could be speaker cable.

A lot of guys here build their own using easy to get RG213  coax cable or the like, here's a couple of links to the process and what's needed [Recommend you read through to page 8 of the first link to get so tips on soldering from some masters of it ]

A different approach, with parts list needed [If you want the same]

 

[warweary]

On 11/10/2019 at 11:54 AM, jareda said:

So my questions for you -

What's holding my setup back?

What would be your priority of items to upgrade?

Should I look to add a pre-amp instead of using my amps build in phono stage?

I also want to add a streaming DAC, I'm looking at the Yamaha WXC-50, is there a better option in the same price range?

 

Thanks in advance for your suggestoins and sorry for the long post! Here's a pic of my setup currently. 

 

 

 

If you're blown away by the sound, then there aint nothing holding it back really.

Get yourself a streamer and spotify/tidal subscription to appreciate the music. That Yamaha wxc-50 will do if it connects to your amplifier.  I hear the bluesound node 2i is currently the cream for under $1k.

 

I like photos, nice job there it's all looking neat.  Would a dedicated hifi rack suit your aesthetic?  

I agree with the others who've mentioned to play around with speaker placement if you can before looking to upgrade speakers and amplifier.

[mobydick]

Agree - slow down. The speakers are not ideal for the space - I think you would have been better off with some smaller bookshelf speakers on stands so you could position them better. However, I assume you are relatively young and are likely to move, and who knows what the next residence will offer up in terms of space and layout.

 

In my experience, the two bits of kit that have the greatest influence on overall sound are the amp and the speakers. As you like the speakers, I think the next bit of kit to upgrade is your amp. I suggest looking for a good quality integrated amp with a good quality phono stage built in. I suggest looking/waiting for an Audiolab 8000A (England built, not the later Chines built ones). It is neutral in sound, will drive your speakers easily, and has a good phono stage built in. As well as the Audiolab, I'd suggest a quality English amp from Rega, Creek, Cambridge, Cyrus or Arcam.

 

You should also, if you can, bring the speakers away from the walls a bit. Even 20cm is better than nothing. The cabinet where you have the turntable is going to vibrate from the speakers. You want to try to isolate the turntable from the cabinet vibrations, or move the turntable to something that won't resonate. For isolation you can buy different bits of hi-fi specific isolation material, but you could try something you have lying around to see if you can hear any difference. For example, try some blue tac, or soft rubber. Or maybe you have a concrete paver in the garden you could try.

 

Other things you can change with a good bang-for-buck ration are interconnects. If you are using the cheap ones that came with your amp etc. ditch them. You'd be better off with some $20 ones from Jaycar, or look on Ebay. And speaker cable can make a big difference. Anyway, plenty of cheap and significant changes you can try whilst you have a think and wait for the next bit of irresistible kit.

[audiofeline]

Some good advice above.

 

First thing I would do is move your speakers out from the wall, you might want to screw a door-stop beside the right-speaker so the door doesn't hit against it.  They may be a big big for your current position, but being young I'm guessing you are in a rental so they might be worth holding onto and they may be better for your next house.  Whenever I've evaluated houses to rent/buy, I've always considered how the stereo could be set up as a priority criteria! 

 

Getting quality isolation for your turntable and upgraded interconnects and speaker cable will be a good investment and useable when you upgrade other components. 

 

Your turntable is a very good entry level turntable with a good cartridge.  I wouldn't upgrade the cart, save the money and put it towards a high-end turntable when you can afford it, there are many excellent vintage tables that are worthy of the investment. 

 

I'm a believer in the importance of the signal starting with good quality, that way anything passed down the line is the best quality and each component will have the ability to work to it's potential.  If the original signal is poor, components down the line will do the best with poor quality. 

 

So in theory I would start with a turntable upgrade.  But I'm sure you will enjoy the improvements brought by a new amp, or a quality phono stage.  Whatever you do, save your money until you can buy something that is in the quality that you want.  That way you will be making an investment for many years, rather than putting money into components which might give somewhat improvement but be turned-over more quickly.  Your system might have an inbalance of quality, but you will enjoy the improvements and eventually have the quality you want. 

 

Good luck, and enjoy the journey and the music.

 

[jareda]

Well, a bit of an update - I now have somewhat of an idea of what i'm doing. 

 

I took stock of all the feedback given to me and have sat patiently waiting for the right listings to come up here and have gotten some great buys that have really taken my system to the next level.  I isolated my turntable and I learnt a lot about speaker positioning and found good spots i could move the speakers to which really bought them to life. As much of a hassle as it was, moving them for proper listening sessions really made the speakers shine, but I could still tell the room was holding them back. 

 

Firstly I picked up a Pro-ject Tube Box S which was a great improvement over my Yamaha's internal phono stage.

 

Then I got my hands on an Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 Power amp and an XPS-2 Preamp which really stepped up the power of the speakers. Initially I wasn't as blown away as I had expected, but after back to back switching of amps I really did learn all the differences in detail and am happy that i've got amps that won't need an upgrade for quite a while. 

 

Next I made the big decision to move my whole setup into my home office (a converted double garage) now that I had the ability to make a second system in the living room with my Yamaha amp and the Pioneer HPMs. I've seem to found the magical speaker and listening positions and have really loved exploring this process and learning to listen for the details positioning can make. I did lose a lot of the bass from the old room, and i'm still not sure why but again, i've learned to listen to bass entirely differently. 

 

Finally, just this week I picked up a Project Tube Box DS with upgraded tubes and most importantly, a Hana EL MC Cartridge. This was my first big WOW moment through this journey and has really stepped up the quality in the system more than anything before. I can't believe the difference in the new cart and for the first time i'm really, really pleased with the setup and am going through my vinyl collection all over again.  

 

Now my urge to buy has eased there's only one thing I want to tick off and that's a new turntable, I'm happy enough with the Technics but i'd love to move it back to the living room and have a nicer manual deck for this system. But i'll just continue to refresh the classifieds section more often than i'd like to admit. 

 

I'm really, really enjoying this journey and am so glad to have access to so much information on this forum. 

[tesla13BMW]

@jareda you seem to like the incremental improvements of upgrading.

 

In which case a vintage Linn LP12 should be a TT on the top of your list to consider.  In its raw state it is still a lovely TT which you can get into for reasonable money.  After that there are many upgrades available which can give you a whole new record collection after each upgrade.  The beauty is if you want to you can just keep upgrading items and finally reach the latest spec. although will cost considerably more than if you were to just go out and buy the latest in one go.

 

If you find yourself in South Brisbane at some stage with a bit of time to spare you are welcome to have a listen to a mid 80's LP12 and a significantly upgraded one in the same system.  Or a modified Rega RP1.  You'd just have to put up with the other ageing equipment they feed :-) and some DIY components.