stupid Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 04/10/2019 at 10:59 PM, CN211276 said: My NVA amps are designed to be left on and have the power switch at the back. I only switch them off if I am away for some time. Hey Clive. How's it hanging . I always switch my NVA amps (in fact the whole system) off at bed time and back on when i get home from work. Also if i am not at home however short that period, i always switch them off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 03/10/2019 at 10:10 AM, March Audio said: I think what concerns me is that there is sometimes a lack of critical thinking in this hobby of audio electronics. As mentioned earlier, an amp that changes its sound enough for a listener to notice due to temperature variations, is not actually a good design. Its not thermally stable. To me it puts amps that must be left on to obtain consistent sound quality in a different light; i.e. its not a good thing. What a good explanation. Thanks for that. I'm going to use that as a topic starter at this years show. I never thought of it that way. Now...what about 2/3/400 hr speaker burn-in? Staying on topic, I have a tube amp and a heap of SS amps and phono pre and I turn them on prior to a listening session so they get about 5 minutes warm up and the tube one gets around ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) On 03/10/2019 at 10:10 AM, March Audio said: I think what concerns me is that there is sometimes a lack of critical thinking in this hobby of audio electronics. As mentioned earlier, an amp that changes its sound enough for a listener to notice due to temperature variations, is not actually a good design. Its not thermally stable. To me it puts amps that must be left on to obtain consistent sound quality in a different light; i.e. its not a good thing. Yeah,right. Wrong. Always easy for someone to come up with some dated scientific explanation to support their opinion. Sure, Caps wear out, everything wears out. Even you. When my Caps fail, I'll replace them. Some Amps needs a warm up period. Fact. If you can't hear the difference, good for you. I can. Same with my cartridges. Ohh, don't be concerned. Edited October 16, 2019 by Wimbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdjjdk Will Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 According to the guy that designs Dartzeel so should leave solid state amps on in standby mode that small volatage is enough to ensure maximum life expectancy of the caps ive had many friends who left there solid state amps on in stand by and they still work fine 20- 30 years later i leave mine on in stand by and for class A amps I always have a fan blowing onto the amp during playback - looks like **** though ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, Kdjjdk Will said: According to the guy that designs Dartzeel so should leave solid state amps on in standby mode that small volatage is enough to ensure maximum life expectancy of the caps ive had many friends who left there solid state amps on in stand by and they still work fine 20- 30 years later i leave mine on in stand by and for class A amps I always have a fan blowing onto the amp during playback - looks like **** though ha ha The Definition of “standby”. Can be technically vary different from manufacturer to manufacture.... An Example: The product I work on will have areas of the device with huge power consumption for heating are switched off..... while some competitors will turned the display off to give the impression that it’s on standby. This includes on/off switches too, some competitors on/off switch will just turn the display off, but the device is very much on full power consuming electricity, where the product I work on has a DPDT switch that isolated the mains. Nowdays to have the accredited green power logo, it’s changed all this , clients requesting to turned the standby timer off is now illegal in some countries, they now have set them to turn to standby after 240mins Max. There’s no pleasing everyone, even if a product has a start up of 30sec some will want you to turned that off so there is no wait time, and this is requested by MPs from Dept of Environmental and Resources!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Wimbo said: Some Amps needs a warm up period. Fact. If you can't hear the difference, good for you. I can. Same with my cartridges. Ohh, don't be concerned. You are spot on, W! (I won't bother to comment on what Alan M wrote.) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) On 04/10/2019 at 8:00 PM, ChucknBob said: I leave mine on all the time. But it gets used daily, so would have to turn ON and OFF each day. I believe thermal degradation (repeated heat-up-cool down) of components shortens their life. The only reasons to turn OFF are: 1) lengthen the life of electrolytic caps 2) cost of electricity. You seem to be disagreeing with yourself, CnF?? I would agree that 'thermal degradation' shortens cap life. But what that means (to me, anyway) is that caps degrade, the hotter they get. However, switching caps on and off - compared to keeping them on for long periods of time - probably shortens the life of a cap. This is not due to temperature but to voltage stress (the cap has a voltage across it ... then it doesn't ... then it does ... etc.). Andy Edited October 16, 2019 by andyr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Luc said: What a good explanation. Thanks for that. I'm going to use that as a topic starter at this years show. I never thought of it that way. Maaate - you're supposed to attend a HiFi Show to look (and listen) to all the luvly gear on show ... not to f'ing well engage in arguments with exhibitors! 2 hours ago, Luc said: Now...what about 2/3/400 hr speaker burn-in? A figment of your imagination, perhaps? 2 hours ago, Luc said: Staying on topic, I have a tube amp and a heap of SS amps and phono pre and I turn them on prior to a listening session so they get about 5 minutes warm up and the tube one gets around ten. Me, I reckon 20 minutes at least is needed. At least, that's the time it takes for voltages at various points in my Muse phono stages to stabilise. (Then again, I guess some people here would say it must obviously be very badly designed, to take that long! ) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, andyr said: However, switching caps on and off - compared to keeping them on for long periods of time - probably shortens the life of a cap. This is not due to temperature but to voltage stress (the cap has a voltage across it ... then it doesn't ... then it does ... etc.). When a power supply is off, the supply filter caps are fully discharged, when you switched it on they represent a short to the mains so momentarily there is a huge “inrush current” that occurs and quickly drops as voltage for the caps rises, this also contributes to shorter life, not only to the caps but places a strain on the on/off switch.... It’s damn if you do and damn If you don’t..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRC Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 At 450w consumption on standby (600w at idle) I definitely leave the amps off. They take a good 1-2 hours to sound their best from a cold start. I've had advice from Krell to keep the amps off when not in use to help with the longevity of the components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 03/10/2019 at 10:10 AM, March Audio said: I think what concerns me is that there is sometimes a lack of critical thinking in this hobby of audio electronics. As mentioned earlier, an amp that changes its sound enough for a listener to notice due to temperature variations, is not actually a good design. Its not thermally stable. To me it puts amps that must be left on to obtain consistent sound quality in a different light; i.e. its not a good thing. After coming across a number of your comments in a number of threads recently I would have to say I have seldom seen a marking strategy, such as yours, where a retailer spends much of their time telling enthusiasts in a hobby that they are trying to sell into that they, the potential customers, have little to no idea about what they are talking about. It will be interesting to see how that works for you. regards Terry. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
March Audio Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, andyr said: You seem to be disagreeing with yourself, CnF?? I would agree that 'thermal degradation' shortens cap life. But what that means (to me, anyway) is that caps degrade, the hotter they get. However, switching caps on and off - compared to keeping them on for long periods of time - probably shortens the life of a cap. This is not due to temperature but to voltage stress (the cap has a voltage across it ... then it doesn't ... then it does ... etc.). Andy Erm, if we take the example of a psu cap the voltage is. Cycling all the time (100hz) Edited October 16, 2019 by March Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, TerryO said: After coming across a number of your comments in a number of threads recently I would have to say I have seldom seen a marking strategy, such as yours, where a retailer spends much of their time telling enthusiasts in a hobby that they are trying to sell into that they, the potential customers, have little to no idea about what they are talking about. It will be interesting to see how that works for you. regards Terry. That depends on if he’s correct or not and if the consumer is willing to be taught anything or stay ignorant. I for one like this approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, March Audio said: Erm, if we take the example of a psu cap the voltage is. Cycling all the time (100hz) So Alan, are you suggesting that Peter's comment - here: 9 hours ago, Addicted to music said: When a power supply is off, the supply filter caps are fully discharged, when you switched it on they represent a short to the mains so momentarily there is a huge “inrush current” that occurs and quickly drops as voltage for the caps rises, this also contributes to shorter life, not only to the caps but places a strain on the on/off switch.... It’s damn if you do and damn If you don’t..... this inrush of current when the component is first switched on ... is a figment of his imagination? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sime said: That depends on if he’s correct or not and if the consumer is willing to be taught anything or stay ignorant. I for one like this approach. Get him to chime in on power cables. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
March Audio Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, TerryO said: After coming across a number of your comments in a number of threads recently I would have to say I have seldom seen a marking strategy, such as yours, where a retailer spends much of their time telling enthusiasts in a hobby that they are trying to sell into that they, the potential customers, have little to no idea about what they are talking about. It will be interesting to see how that works for you. regards Terry. I supplt technically verifiable information Terry. That's not telling people in any offensive way that they don't know what they are talking about as you imply. However it simply is a fact that consumers are often not very technically informed. People can consider the information or ignore it. If people choose to believe marketing BS or audiophile mythology from certain sectors that's up to them. You wouldn't beleive how much feedback I get from customers regarding how refreshing it is to find a manufacturer that doesn't peddle snake oil. For your information my sales seem to indicate as a marketing strategy it works just fine Edited October 16, 2019 by March Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
March Audio Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, andyr said: So Alan, are you suggesting that Peter's comment - here: this inrush of current when the component is first switched on ... is a figment of his imagination? Andy Andy can you stop being so combative? You know full well that is not what I said or implied. However the simple fact is that leaving an amp on 24 hours a day will life caps far quicker than turning it on and off 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
March Audio Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, March Audio said: Iyx Edited October 16, 2019 by March Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
March Audio Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Get him to chime in on power cables. Power cable making a difference is pure comedy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, March Audio said: I supplt technically verifiable information Terry. That's not telling people in any offensive way that they don't know what they are talking about, however it simply is a fact that consumers are not very technically informed. People can consider the information or ignore it. If people choose to believe marketing BS from or Audiophile mythology from certain sectors that's up to them. You wouldn't beleive how much feedback I get from customers regarding how refreshing it is to find a manufacturer that doesn't peddle snake oil. For your information my sales seem to indicate as a marketing strategy it works just fine That sales success was that before or after you joined this forum in March this year and then started telling everybody about how much you know and how little they do? regards Terry 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, March Audio said: Power cable making a difference is pure comedy. Very entertaining..... better than watching South Park.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Just now, Addicted to music said: Very entertaining..... better than watching South Park.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
March Audio Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, TerryO said: That sales success was that before or after you joined this forum in March this year and then started telling everybody about how much you know and how little they do? regards Terry I haven't been doing that Terry. It is notable that there is not any actual technical rebuttal of any of my comments, its just people objecting to a different POV. Instead of misconstuing my comments, would you like to make some technical comments on your knowledge of capacitor life? Edited October 16, 2019 by March Audio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Sime said: That depends on if he’s correct or not and if the consumer is willing to be taught anything or stay ignorant. I for one like this approach. As i aligns with your biases. It's not rocket science. Edit: and it appears you just implied a bunch of us here are ignorant, nice. Edited October 16, 2019 by Muon N' Condensed for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, March Audio said: I haven't been doing that Terry. Instead of misconstuing my comments, would you like to make some technical comments on your knowledge of capacitor life? Actually you have been doing just that and across a number of threads, one recently was closed down after you took a very active role in commenting, if I remember rightly about a product that had not even been released yet which you were very vocal about. As I said it’s a interesting marketing strategy to keep telling potential customers they have little to no idea about what they are talking about in the manner that you do. regards, Terry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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