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Receivers with stereo sub outs?

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Hi - anyone know of any AV or stereo receivers that have stereo sub outputs?

 

I need to high-pass main speakers at 200hz and think that's too high to run mono bass.

 

 

Cheers

B

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Harman Kardon HK990 has stereo subs, so to the Nad d7050.

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2 hours ago, b.d said:

 

I need to high-pass main speakers at 200hz and think that's too high to run mono bass.

jeez - what main speakers run out below 200Hz?

agreed that 200Hz is too high for mono bass

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8 hours ago, b.d said:

Hi - anyone know of any AV  receivers that have stereo sub outputs?

 

Traded in refurbished with waranty Emo XMC1;s with dirac and independent stereo sub outs are being sold while they last if importing from Tennessee :winky:

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Thanks for all the ideas.

 

Emotiva with Dirac very tempting.

 

Speakers are DIY 3-ways where I want to use subs rather than bass drivers.

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18 minutes ago, b.d said:

Thanks for all the ideas.

 

Emotiva with Dirac very tempting.

 

Speakers are DIY 3-ways where I want to use subs rather than bass drivers.

hi B.D if can find the old flagship Denon AVP-A1HD processor  or AVC-A1HD both had discrete and true L&R setup and also could be used with 3 subs if want in L&R and LFE. or all three in LFE config. prob most flexible setup have ever come across. the AVP was also very good as a processor for 2ch as can imagine. full discrete dac boards and true dual differential balanced design end ot end which is very rare. its a rare beast too... just might be hard to find ! as a prior owner of the AVP it is truly flagship stuff would pick up as a bargain today and nothing I know out there compares in my opinion to the kind of things these were.

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Thanks BB.

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Hi - anyone know of any AV or stereo receivers that have stereo sub outputs?
 
I need to high-pass main speakers at 200hz and think that's too high to run mono bass.
 
 
Cheers
B
Are you sure you want to do this with subs? That is right on the edge of most bass management x-overs, and everything above 80-100Hz can be localised.

You will have to put them very close to your main speakers, and this way you loose out on bass optimisation by placement.

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You’re right about that PK. The idea is for speakers to sit on top of diy sub/bass boxes initially, though might be an idea to try subs in their respective corners with speakers on stands. Ideally the separation should be no more than 1/4 200hz wavelength I’m guessing.

.

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You’re right about that PK. The idea is for speakers to sit on top of diy sub/bass boxes initially, though might be an idea to try subs in their respective corners with speakers on stands. Ideally the separation should be no more than 1/4 200hz wavelength I’m guessing.
.
I don't know about that, but my subs are placed at the halfway length of the room, and 90cm closer by than my main speakers.

With a 100Hz x-over (1/4 length is 85cm) I could localised the subs and sound would jump between sub and main speakers.

This is sitting rather close to the sub

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On 28/09/2019 at 6:26 PM, b.d said:

Hi - anyone know of any AV or stereo receivers that have stereo sub outputs?

I need to high-pass main speakers at 200hz and think that's too high to run mono bass.

None of the ones which have "stereo" subwoofer outputs, will actually send "left bass" and "right bass" to them as far as I understand it.

 

 

I think it will be ok to run mono that high.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

Are you sure you want to do this with subs? That is right on the edge of most bass management x-overs, and everything above 80-100Hz can be localised.

Just but if you have Lsub and Rsub close to, or as part of, the L and R speaker..... then this will be fine.   Even if they are both mixed mono.

 

7 hours ago, b.d said:

Ideally the separation should be no more than 1/4 200hz wavelength I’m guessing..

Yes.

7 hours ago, b.d said:

The idea is for speakers to sit on top of diy sub/bass boxes initially

Then you should find that each sub box receiving a mono mix of <200Hz is just fine.

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1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

Then you should find that each sub box receiving a mono mix of <200Hz is just fine.

agreed

interesting anecdote - I was discussing the mix at a live gig recently with a colleague who does a bit of amateur mixing - I wanted to move closer to the centre line to get better sound - he said "don't bother, it sounds fine here and it will be all mixed in mono"...the "in room" mix at live gigs is usually mono.

 

...listening on my home setup I have a different scenario - with 2 people in the listening couch, my spot is about 1m from the sub mouth immediately to my left, and the mains are about 2.5m away in front (small room).

The Xover between my mains and sub is at 60Hz.

All the "apparent" sound comes from the mains - even though I know the sub is running there is no sense of localisation.

 

One of the key benefits of sub/s is to have your mains positioned for best imaging and place subs for best "in room" bass - you will be passing this up and losing stereo separation in the mid bass region also...

IMO the biggest loss would be the flexibility for best "in room" bass.

 

cheers

Mike

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The higher end Yamaha Aventage receivers have stereo sub outs. YPAO sucks, but they also have very handy manual parametric EQs which can be very useful for DIY.

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Thanks.

 

Hmm, I definitely remember reading at least one online article and a few subwoofer review where they talked up the benefits of stereo sub-bass, stuff about spatial cues being impeded in the signal difference even at frequencies that are on their own non-localisable. I should probably test it myself, but its easier just to buy the most convincing theory :)

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On 29/09/2019 at 5:24 PM, b.d said:

Thanks for all the ideas.

 

Emotiva with Dirac very tempting.

They've dropped the local B&M store price in 1/2 apparently ; check the manual for stereo bass option ; theres choices:winky:

Quote

 multiple subs should be configured as dual mono or stereo

Quote

 7.2 Channel A/V Preamp / Processor – RRP $2,499

 

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On 03/10/2019 at 8:31 PM, b.d said:

Thanks.

 

Hmm, I definitely remember reading at least one online article and a few subwoofer review where they talked up the benefits of stereo sub-bass, stuff about spatial cues being impeded in the signal difference even at frequencies that are on their own non-localisable. I should probably test it myself, but its easier just to buy the most convincing theory :)

It’s a debatable thing. Theoretically, multiple subs are better than single subs when it comes to evening out room modes. And most of the research on multiple subs is based on running them in mono below 80hz. Two is better than one, but three is better than two, and four a bit better again.

 

When I had a big dedicated room, I found the best measured results were with three subs, two at the front, one at the rear.

 

The problem with using this a basis to not use stereo subs is that whilst it is easy to measure the effect of three mono sub sources, it is very hard to measure the effect of stereo sub sources, because you are only measuring one speaker/sub combo at a time.

 

You can’t measure how they combine. 

 

Again, theoretically, since most bass is mono, they should act like two mono bass sources, but it is impossible to prove.

 

It’s also, as noted, much harder to EQ and integrate stereo subs. 

 

But it is possible. I used a MiniDSP fed from the pre-outs of my receiver/pre-pro and EQed each sub via the MiniDSP, although I could als have done it via the Room EQ in the Anthem.

 

My subs (Ryhtmiks) had a second LFE input which I fed from the summed sub out.

 

So I could switch between stereo subs and mono by switching bass management.

 

The mono subs always measured better, but I preferred ( by a slim margin) listening to stereo subs. 

 

This was crossing over between 50-80hz.

 

Crossing higher than that tilted things more towards stereo.

 

In my current room I have one sub to the side. It measures fine crossed at 80hz, but (and it may be psychological) I feel like I can hear it so I cross lower.

 

I tried stereo subs with goid effect but my wife wouldn’t buy it.

 

This is a long-winded way of saying go stereo. Especially at 200hz.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 03/10/2019 at 8:31 PM, b.d said:

Hmm, I definitely remember reading at least one online article and a few subwoofer review where they talked up the benefits of stereo sub-bass, stuff about spatial cues being impeded in the signal difference even at frequencies that are on their own non-localisable

but you're wanting to cross way higher than sub bass - ie 200Hz - your mains should be managing way below this in full stereo down to 80Hz or so.

Sure run subs in stereo below that if you want...

...running subs up to 200Hz means they're not subs, but bass/sub speakers that must be cosited with the speakers crossed over to above - losing the flexibility to place them for best "in room" bass.

 

Mike

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