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Interesting video, explaining even why would better power cable give more stage, etc even after cheap connection to the wall socket.

 

Ch

 

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Apart from shielding, he makes no case whatsoever for audiophile power cables.

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Apart from shielding, he makes no case whatsoever for audiophile power cables.
Shielding should not be neglected.

In audio this is Alfa and Omega.

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That is correct.

I was amased, when I put in thicker cable to preamp (Copland valve) and suddenly (what I did not expect at all) there was more stage, better, tighter bass, clearer sound !!! Have to mention that I put 6m2 wires direct from meter box to the wall plugs in two rooms, when I built the house.

And there was already thick cable to power amp (Pass Labs 150X) - Zion.

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15 minutes ago, Dankeshon said:

Shielding should not be neglected.

In audio this is Alfa and Omega.

I did not say shielding was not worth using.

Edited by Ittaku

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Any discussion about cables should never be conducted by looking at a particular cable in isolation and this is especially true for power cables. So, shielding is very important but only because power cables can affect signal cables. The down side; one can never shield a power cable completely at those frequencies and voltages. Here is an interesting discussion on the topic:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_the_material_that_can_be_used_to_shield_EMI_within_50-60_Hz

 

 Everything else, like "14N single crystal copper conductors polished by virgins on a Polynesian island only when the full moon is out" - type stories are largely for people to spend a lot of money and project their personal sense of value based on that. In power cables, termination is often more important than the wire since it is a difficult thing to achieve correctly and within the legal requirements of the applicable standards and regulations. Finally, rewiring one's home or getting a dedicated filtered and isolated power line for your HT/audio system is much much more efficient way to improve the power delivery than spending thousands on above mentioned "audiophile" cables.   

Edited by Decky

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Any discussion about cables should never be conducted by looking at a particular cable in isolation and this is especially true for power cables. So, shielding is very important but only because power cables can affect signal cables. The down side; one can never shield a power cable completely at those frequencies and voltages. Here is an interesting discussion on the topic:
https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_the_material_that_can_be_used_to_shield_EMI_within_50-60_Hz
 
 Everything else, like "14N single crystal copper conductors polished by virgins on a Polynesian island only when the full moon is out" - type stories are largely for people to spend a lot of money and project their personal sense of value based on that. In power cables, termination is often more important than the wire since it is a difficult thing to achieve correctly and within the legal requirements of the applicable standards and regulations. Finally, rewiring one's home or getting a dedicated filtered and isolated power line for your HT/audio system is much much more efficient way to improve the power delivery than spending thousands on above mentioned "audiophile" cables.   
Supra and Audioquest has some cheap power cables...

But there is some super expensive I understand that.

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20 hours ago, Dankeshon said:

Shielding should not be neglected.

In audio this is Alfa and Omega.

Yes, even if we can't control the 2km to the substation we should shield at least the last 2m of the power line...

 

That said, I found a marked improvement after wrapping all my power cables 30cm thick in mineral wool. The bass of my system got noticeably tighter and less bloated.

😉

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1 minute ago, Steffen said:

That said, I found a marked improvement after wrapping all my power cables 30cm thick in mineral wool. The bass of my system got noticeably tighter and less bloated.

Not woolly ?

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Check out AC/DC not the band.

And then stop talking about the grid around the world...

Same goes for Ethernet cables and talking about the web around the world.

It's the Dac that is critical... It ain't alot of Dacs around the servers or?..

Power has big fields of EMI, TVs, Bluetooth antennas, radio, routers and computers....

It's infact science... Can be proven by meters in your home, but difficult to measure IN music with affordable gear...

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6 hours ago, Dankeshon said:

Check out AC/DC not the band.

And then stop talking about the grid around the world...

Same goes for Ethernet cables and talking about the web around the world.

It's the Dac that is critical... It ain't alot of Dacs around the servers or?..

Power has big fields of EMI, TVs, Bluetooth antennas, radio, routers and computers....

It's infact science... Can be proven by meters in your home, but difficult to measure IN music with affordable gear...

Are u OK?

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12 hours ago, Dankeshon said:

I am ok.
The EMI interference can be proved with a meter.
It's not woodoo.

Indeed.... but it's not a case for silly power cables.

 

It's a case for better DAC designs ... better cable routing ... and perhaps balanced mains power.

 

 

... but as mains cables are much more profitable, accessible, and much easier sells to punters ..... that will likely remain what the market delivers.

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On 23/09/2019 at 6:31 PM, Ittaku said:

I did not say shielding was not worth using.

I don’t use any shielded cable except from cartridge to phono preamp. The rest of the interconnects and power cable are all unshielded.  One stereophile reviewer also uses no shielded interconnects. It’s not required at all . 

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2 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

Indeed.... but it's not a case for silly power cables.

 

It's a case for better DAC designs ... better cable routing ... and perhaps balanced mains power.

 

 

... but as mains cables are much more profitable, accessible, and much easier sells to punters ..... that will likely remain what the market delivers.

When you think the power comes from hundreds of miles away, mostly through open air and unshielded, to think a few meters or shielded wire will fix all!!??!!. Let’s not forget the same power goes through dozens of transformers, fuses and lightning arresters. 

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1 minute ago, mwhouston said:

I don’t use any shielded cable except from cartridge to phono preamp. The rest of the interconnects and power cable are all unshielded.  One stereophile reviewer also uses no shielded interconnects. It’s not required at all . 

I've explained this before, but there was a time I had a very high gain preamp which would pick up all sorts of stray EM fields and since my components are quite closely packed, it would pick up hum from the power cables nearby. Changing them to shielded fixed this issue. So I'm not advocating shielded power cables for everything, but there are valid uses for them. Since changing preamp that problem has gone away and every power cord I've used since have been cheap normal cables.

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I seldom join power cables threads (although Con says I should!  😁).  I am posting this to share with you how standard power cables can be used in an innovative way that challenges long held assumptions. Probably taking this OT but wanted to break the cycle of debating (which is why, Con, I do not join power cable threads).

 

My Devialet Phantom Golds are unusual in many ways, including the use of power cables.  The supplied power cable looks like an ordinary cable with an extra bit to clip onto the rear of the Phantom.  What is most interesting is that the Phantoms use the power cable to communicate with each other and the Dialog (connecting box with Ethernet).  The Devialet proprietry PLC (Power Line Communication) is superb and and probably the best connection.  

 

Not only does PLC break all the assumptions I previously had about noisy power cables,  but it makes for a simple setup.  No interconnect cable, no Ethernet cable, no reliance on having a good wifi signal for the Phantoms. The only cable to each Phantom is the power cable. I have a Houghton DC Blocker connected to a standard power board with the 2 Phantoms and Dialog plugged in with standard power cables.  

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1 minute ago, Snoopy8 said:

I seldom join power cables threads (although Con says I should!  😁). 

Was I drunk at the time?

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Indeed.... but it's not a case for silly power cables.
 
It's a case for better DAC designs ... better cable routing ... and perhaps balanced mains power.
 
 
... but as mains cables are much more profitable, accessible, and much easier sells to punters ..... that will likely remain what the market delivers.
Supra Swedish shielded power cables with ground costs what? 20-35$ for 2meter.

As in all hifi there are cheaper and silly expensive solutions...

I think we should precise this, even Audioquest sell some cheaper power cables.

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Me I had a big change with very notable less noise...

I changed from Class A/AB to Class D.

That made me believe in shielded power cables without ever owning one.

Because the lack of noise in a good class D is stunning...

I didn't even KNOW I had noise...

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On 24/10/2019 at 12:55 PM, mwhouston said:

... to think a few meters or shielded wire will fix all!!??!!

A shielded cable (just the last few meters) could have benefits....  but a better solution is to fix the things which might be affected by it.

 

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15 hours ago, Dankeshon said:

Supra Swedish shielded power cables with ground costs what? 20-35$ for 2meter.

$20 for a cable (if it is high quality/performance) is not "silly".

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