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thanks for the great suggestions and i will take them onboard.

 

i was thinking how about the Matrix Element X (as nothing is mentioned) in regards to matching with active ATCs.

 

reason why is that i need ethernet network connection that plays accepts files up to 24/384 hi res files and DSD also. much of my listening is via network. only critical is via cd.  

 

some the Denafrips Dacs looking interesting also

 

i like having minimalist system. but not when it compromises audio quality (to a certain extent)

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My 10th pair of Atc’s and I’d say my last.

Well, I've paid the entry fee and have rejoined the ATC club. I was a passive member last time around, this time I'm going active. Don't spare the horses, driver!

Well, they have arrived !!!!!   Thank God I got the 50A and NOT the 100A.   They only just squeezed trough my front door in the shipping cartons and up a flight of stairs, that dog

  • 4 weeks later...
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27 minutes ago, JVC3 said:

I am wanting to audition ATC SCM25a Pro in Melbourne . Is there somewhere where this is available .

Dave 

You're in luck: 

WWW.STEREO.NET.AU

ATC, Acoustic Transducer Company, is a specialist British manufacturer of loudspeaker drive units and complete sound reproduction systems, including the relevant electronic...

 

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Great to see a dedicated thread for Atc... thanks for starting one!

This is my first post on this forum despite being a lurker for some time.

 

I’m amazed that Atc doesn’t have that  much of a presence here in Aus, they are just fantastic speakers... I don’t think there are any weak models in their range.

 

I do appreciate that they aren’t for everyone, perhaps more so with the bigger models for people expecting a bigger bottom end. The leanness of the bass may be a stumbling block for some people. The lack of distortion of the SL drivers makes them sound a bit light in the bass area. However once your ears get used to this, there is no going back. Listening to other speakers now, I can clearly hear their distortion...I suppose some people like the extra fullness that this brings.

Having been converted to actives a long time ago, I chose new 50 actives for my smallish L shaped room and was actually shocked at how little bass I got in this room. I thought I had made a very expensive mistake! If I could have returned them, I probably would have. Be patient and give them 50-100 hours or so and the bass starts to grow as they burn in/ loosen up. Never thought that was a such a thing until I experienced it for myself. 
I tried adding a sub to fill the real lower end some more (a Dynaudio bm14s) and was totally disappointed at how bad it all sounded no matter what I tried. It just would not integrate with the Atc’s. The sub actually sounds great with Dynaudio bm6a active bookshelf's perhaps unsurprisingly as they were part of the same range of pro models.
I really wanted to get Atc subs as I knew they would work well together but just couldn’t afford it.

So my search ended about a year or so later when I came across a second hand JL Audio f112v2.

These subs have very low distortion and are quite compact for what they can do, suiting my small room sizewise.

The difference this made was staggering to say the least. The system sounded just incredible from the moment I first powered up. Maybe I got lucky but with literally no setting up or tweaking, I reached Audio heaven.

They seem to have a similarly low distortion characteristic as the Atc’s  and suit each other really well.

Saving up for ages, I added a second (same) JL sub but this wasn’t as dramatic as adding the first. It just smoothed some lumps in the bass response. Definitely not as good value for money as just one and is perhaps overkill for this small room but it is really my dream setup now. 
With some tweaking and adding diffusers here and there, the system is incrementally improving. I’ll try putting the tweeters on the inside rather than the outside next... thanks for the tip guys.
Only at loud volume, do I hear some room nodes/ resonance at lower frequencies. So I guess getting some bass traps would come next?
Anyone have any recommendations for this?
I wonder how much better I can get this system?!

 

@MarkT do you think the sound anchors are worth the money? They look like awesome stands but are very expensive...wondering if they are much better than what comes with the classics? 
 

@JDWest

Thanks for clarifying the difference between the tower vs classic... I’ve often wondered about that... and for the tweeter tip!

 

Also can highly recommend the guys at @puremusicgroup Melbourne. Their after sales service is really excellent. Thanks guys!

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The sound anchors are very high quality stands , rock solid and heavy.

ÀTC themselves recommend them.

 

Needless to say shipping from the USA is expensive , but worth it imo if you want the best for them.

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ATC speakers aren't bass shy but a helluva lot of recorded music is.

Those overbuilt, low distortion in-house bass drivers, amps and cabinets don't lend any extra bass weight in the form of lovely fat distortion in the way many other easy to love speakers do. When that's what you're used to, listening to ATC speakers requires a recalibration.

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2 hours ago, Nickynick said:

Great to see a dedicated thread for Atc... thanks for starting one!

This is my first post on this forum despite being a lurker for some time.

 

I’m amazed that Atc doesn’t have that  much of a presence here in Aus, they are just fantastic speakers... I don’t think there are any weak models in their range.

 

I do appreciate that they aren’t for everyone, perhaps more so with the bigger models for people expecting a bigger bottom end. The leanness of the bass may be a stumbling block for some people. The lack of distortion of the SL drivers makes them sound a bit light in the bass area. However once your ears get used to this, there is no going back. Listening to other speakers now, I can clearly hear their distortion...I suppose some people like the extra fullness that this brings.

Having been converted to actives a long time ago, I chose new 50 actives for my smallish L shaped room and was actually shocked at how little bass I got in this room. I thought I had made a very expensive mistake! If I could have returned them, I probably would have. Be patient and give them 50-100 hours or so and the bass starts to grow as they burn in/ loosen up. Never thought that was a such a thing until I experienced it for myself. 
I tried adding a sub to fill the real lower end some more (a Dynaudio bm14s) and was totally disappointed at how bad it all sounded no matter what I tried. It just would not integrate with the Atc’s. The sub actually sounds great with Dynaudio bm6a active bookshelf's perhaps unsurprisingly as they were part of the same range of pro models.
I really wanted to get Atc subs as I knew they would work well together but just couldn’t afford it.

So my search ended about a year or so later when I came across a second hand JL Audio f112v2.

These subs have very low distortion and are quite compact for what they can do, suiting my small room sizewise.

The difference this made was staggering to say the least. The system sounded just incredible from the moment I first powered up. Maybe I got lucky but with literally no setting up or tweaking, I reached Audio heaven.

They seem to have a similarly low distortion characteristic as the Atc’s  and suit each other really well.

Saving up for ages, I added a second (same) JL sub but this wasn’t as dramatic as adding the first. It just smoothed some lumps in the bass response. Definitely not as good value for money as just one and is perhaps overkill for this small room but it is really my dream setup now. 
With some tweaking and adding diffusers here and there, the system is incrementally improving. I’ll try putting the tweeters on the inside rather than the outside next... thanks for the tip guys.
Only at loud volume, do I hear some room nodes/ resonance at lower frequencies. So I guess getting some bass traps would come next?
Anyone have any recommendations for this?
I wonder how much better I can get this system?!

 

@MarkT do you think the sound anchors are worth the money? They look like awesome stands but are very expensive...wondering if they are much better than what comes with the classics? 
 

@JDWest

Thanks for clarifying the difference between the tower vs classic... I’ve often wondered about that... and for the tweeter tip!

 

Also can highly recommend the guys at @puremusicgroup Melbourne. Their after sales service is really excellent. Thanks guys!

 

Tweeters out can help widen soundstage if forced to have speakers close together.

Tweeters in will focus imaging and considered optimal if space between speakers is not an issue.

Just a guide though as the way YOU like best is all that matters!!!!

 

Also very important to ensure that the acoustic centre is at MLP ear height.

 

IIRC I think it was around about the lower half of the mid dome..........it's mentioned in user manual anyway.

 

I had to stick FOUR 4cm pavers under mine to get them up but..........IT WAS WORTH IT!!!!!!!!😊

 

Happy Listening.

Edited by JohnL
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4 hours ago, Nickynick said:

I do appreciate that they aren’t for everyone, perhaps more so with the bigger models for people expecting a bigger bottom end. The leanness of the bass may be a stumbling block for some people. The lack of distortion of the SL drivers makes them sound a bit light in the bass area. However once your ears get used to this, there is no going back. Listening to other speakers now, I can clearly hear their distortion...I suppose some people like the extra fullness that this brings.

Its how they are designed, they are not tuned to go real low.  They have to match a 15"/12"/10" woofer up to a mid dome that doesn't go as low as a standard cone driver.

 

 

 

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I agree, it seems that they built the speaker(s) around the amazing mid dome unit. Its a really wonderful driver.

So for me at least, having subs really brought the best out of the 50asl’s. It struck me most hearing reverbs of large halls... with the subs on, you seem to be in a much larger space. I guess this is what people mean by scale.

Would love to hear what the 100’s and 150s can do... how about the 300’s? Anyone heard those? Phew!

@deanB that’s a really good point about recalibrating. Could ‘burn in’ actually be the same thing? My ears seem to hear differently after living with them for a while.

 

@JohnL Did the pavers themselves make a big difference or does the correct height make more of a difference? This may be the cheap alternative to sound anchors...

One good thing is that the supplied stands slide around relatively easily on carpet!

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18 minutes ago, Nickynick said:

I agree, it seems that they built the speaker(s) around the amazing mid dome unit. Its a really wonderful driver.

So for me at least, having subs really brought the best out of the 50asl’s. It struck me most hearing reverbs of large halls... with the subs on, you seem to be in a much larger space. I guess this is what people mean by scale.

Would love to hear what the 100’s and 150s can do... how about the 300’s? Anyone heard those? Phew!

@deanB that’s a really good point about recalibrating. Could ‘burn in’ actually be the same thing? My ears seem to hear differently after living with them for a while.

 

@JohnL Did the pavers themselves make a big difference or does the correct height make more of a difference? This may be the cheap alternative to sound anchors...

One good thing is that the supplied stands slide around relatively easily on carpet!

 

The height was what made the BIG difference..............I doubt using pavers hurt though. 

I was also surprised by the quite audible differences between I/C's and AC cables too.

Like you I also use a couple of subs ( 15" Velo's) with my Anniversary SCM 70ASL's for the really deep stuff. 

A set of EL 150's would still do me quite nicely though!!!!

Edited by JohnL
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3 hours ago, lusk said:

Its how they are designed, they are not tuned to go real low.  They have to match a 15"/12"/10" woofer up to a mid dome that doesn't go as low as a standard cone driver.

 

 

 

FWIW..........9"........😉

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Just came back from an hour audition with the ATC 100 Actives. the tone was awesome. the mids range & vocals just amazing with a big sound stage. imo very similar sound stage to the Cornwall III.

 

i think looking at these 100s now the 150s maybe too big for the room(s) they will be in.

 

Floor stands or classics? But still have another set of speakers to listen to before i decide.

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I listened to the 100s a few days ago in the PMG showroom - they really sounded big, but my impression was that this was strongly  aided by the room treatment geared to bring out this effect. Very good imaging, but tonally they weren't my thing. I felt that highs had a tendency to sound sibilant and lows had a bit too much harmonics to my liking. Mids were really the strongest point. 

 

The floor standers look much classier, but the price difference would be hard to swallow.

 

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2 hours ago, PleasantSounds said:

I listened to the 100s a few days ago in the PMG showroom - they really sounded big, but my impression was that this was strongly  aided by the room treatment geared to bring out this effect. Very good imaging, but tonally they weren't my thing. I felt that highs had a tendency to sound sibilant and lows had a bit too much harmonics to my liking. Mids were really the strongest point. 

 

The floor standers look much classier, but the price difference would be hard to swallow.

 

Not sure how you "gear" a rooms treatment to sound big............but sounds like something my smallish loungeroom could use!!!!!

 

Sounds to me like problems with the partnering equipment as ATC's just give you what you feed them. 

It's their total lack of coloration that many consider one of their finest virtues. 

 

Maybe you and GENKIFD should compare notes as you both seem to have had opposite experiences!!!!

 

FWIW.........the new ATC tweets are widely very well regarded and  the ones in GAT474's SCM 40A's sounded beautifully smooth to me.

 

Also AFAIK one of the reasons Super Linear tech was introduced to their bass drivers was to prevent potential harmonics issues.

 

 

Edited by JohnL
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16 minutes ago, JohnL said:

Not sure how you "gear" a rooms treatment to sound big............but sounds like something my smallish loungeroom could use!!!!!

 

Sounds to me like problems with the partnering equipment as ATC's just give you what you feed them. 

 

Maybe you and GENKIFD should compare notes as you both seem to have had opposite experiences!!!!

 

FWIW.........the new ATC tweets are widely very well regarded and  the ones in GAT474's SCM 40A's sounded beautifully smooth to me.

 

Also AFAIK one of the reasons Super Linear tech was introduced to their bass drivers was to prevent potential harmonics issues.

 

 

I agree...except that my first thought was to wonder about the test tracks being played. I think of a few of my favourite tracks that have more sibilance than I would like but my ATCs will simply reveal that and also the reveal lack of sibilance on other tracks.

 

Regarding the bass, it is tight...comes and goes quickly...as it should IMO, providing the recording/mastering didn't alter that.  Now that can lead some people to find ATCs a bit bass shy. "Too much harmonics"[in low end] makes me think that the opposite was experienced during this demo. Something in the recording or outside of the ATCs is my guess...but that's just IMO and YMMV etc. We all like what we like and don't need to justify that.

 

Cheers,

John

 

 

 

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only thing it may have been missing was the low bass punch - but then again the albums i had listened to on the day didnt comprise of notes much in this region. 

 

sibilant - didnt hear any.  just sounded right to me. all it needed imo was a little more punch in the lower region. this could be the room.  

 

I cant remember where is read it. Classics and floor stands ATC indicated sound exactly the same. so im leaning towards the Classics to save some money to put into areas of need (preamp).

Edited by genkifd
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I remember putting Puscifer's Indigo Children track on @JDWest old 100a Classics. He turned up the wick and those 20 year old speakers put on an exhibition of bass speed and power the likes of which I'd never experienced in a domestic setting.

My equilibrium was thrown out of wack and I felt slightly drugged as I drove home half an hour later. 

Magnificent stuff!

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Not sure if I have missed a price adjustment with ATC but I noted that Sonic Purity & The Sound Gallery both advertising ATC SCM40 A’s at $12,500 compared to 2016 pricing of $15,998. Tremendous value unless, as I say, I have have missed something.

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A Scm40 passive is $7k so for another $5.5k you get a tri amp pack per speaker that's virtually the same output as the P2 power amp plus active crossover and phase compensation. With a 6 year warranty.

I fudged around for ages trying to get the right amp for the scm19. Next time I'll be going 19 active.

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8 hours ago, deanB said:

A Scm40 passive is $7k so for another $5.5k you get a tri amp pack per speaker that's virtually the same output as the P2 power amp plus active crossover and phase compensation. With a 6 year warranty.

I fudged around for ages trying to get the right amp for the scm19. Next time I'll be going 19 active.

Dean, what amp did you finally decide on?

 

I currently run SCM40 Mk1 passive with a Gryphon Atilla integrated amp. Other than some current room acoustic issues I really enjoy the combo but the active setup gets universal praise and am considerate of upgrading either new or second hand.

 

6 yr warranty is attractive also.

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Well, long story short, of all the amps I tried the ATC SPA2-150 was (objectively) the best match.

But being a stubborn valve amp tragic, I kept going in that direction, eventually admitted defeat and sold the 19's for more efficient speakers.

Had some great fun with the 19's though, 8-12 hour sessions were regular events . I don't often quote Stereophile but they described the Scm19 v2 as all the speaker that most of us will ever need and I kinda got what they meant. Sound great with any type of music and are tough as old boots. 

I've had a decent listen to the 40 mk2 powered by the ATC P1 amp, that was pretty special. I'd imagine your Gryphon would give the 40's everything they need.

Edited by deanB
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Merry Xmas gents. I'm still chasing an atc scm100aslt. Was wondering if any dealers might be doing boxing day sales? Most of the atc dealers don't have newsletters or deals as far as I can see.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Just found this thread. Anyone here had the ATC40A and upgraded to a Classic 50 active ?

 

Just trying to get a read on what to expect if I did move up to the 50A. 
 

Significantly better or ........... would I need to go to the 100A to notice a significant change from what I have.

 

They need to fit in an existing area of 8m x 4m room , with the speaker along the long wall & only about >40cm room behind the speakers to play with.  Distance speakers to listening position  will be around 3m -not possible to give  any more than that. 
 

So a pretty restrictive area, the 40A I have now is just fine , bass light I guess , but I expected when I got them. The specs. say -6db at 48hz.  I am just after more of the same  ATC goodness - but with more bass depth/punch and/or a bigger more dynamic range if possible.

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ive heard the older Classic 50s and the current 100A - the current 100A imo has the mid range magic while the older 50 did not. the current 50, 100 and 150 use the same tweeter and mid range drivers only the bass driver is different.

 

the higher you go with the ATC the more meaty the bass becomes. Not necessarily lower but fuller.

 

 

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Ah, righto,  cheers for that. 
 

I forgot to say, they have to fit in a 2.5m wide space too.  
 

Upon reflection, it looks like I am restricted to the Classic 50A. As the 100 is another 10cm wider on each speaker than the 50A. That will really eat into the speaker (perceived) soundstage I wager.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 20/02/2020 at 8:20 PM, JDWest said:

Thanks for sharing that 👍

+1. 

Note the free space the speaker and mic are in for frequency response testing. ATC refuse to massage the specs for marketing purposes.

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1 hour ago, deanB said:

+1. 

Note the free space the speaker and mic are in for frequency response testing. ATC refuse to massage the specs for marketing purposes.

True, but how many people use it in such an environment?

On paper my ATC SCM 19s should be -6db at 54Hz, but in reality they extend down to 25Hz because of room reinforcement.

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My Scm40a’s drop off gently at about 45 hz down to 25 hz or so. Not much action down at the bottom end though. They are matched with subs which are set to roll off above 45 hz at 24 db. It all makes for a reasonably flattish frequency response.

I did have some older scm50a’s which didn’t go a whole lot lower than the 40’s but they sure hit a whole lot harder but over the long term would have sent me deaf. At lower volumes the 50’s weren’t all that impressive, it was more when they were wicked up and then they sure begged to be played loud. This  might be partly room related too as most speakers I’ve had over the journey have performed better once the room was loaded up a bit.

God I miss the 50’s!!  

Edited by gat474
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3 minutes ago, audio_file said:

True, but how many people use it in such an environment?

On paper my ATC SCM 19s should be -6db at 54Hz, but in reality they extend down to 25Hz because of room reinforcement.

No one does, of course.

But I like that ATC don't make up imaginary specs like "typical in-room response". They don't cater to audiophile neurosis.

I've seen a pic somewhere on the net of ATC measuring one of the bigger models in the middle of the factory with the speaker suspended about 12ft in the air.

 

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Man I thought the bass rolled off hard on the small ATC. Like 80hz roll off for the SCM 20, the 50 was better and the scm100 almost has passable bass but I would definitely be integrating a sub with smaller atc

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