naimster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Agreed. A good room with a reasonably good system is almost always better than a lousy room with a super high end system. I like your older Epos very much, and your ATC sound is good too.. ..but this ATC set up is play inside a room that is so quiet and well treated, PLUS much wider, taller and bigger that our room.... there are something of this system that we will never able to achieve in our small room no matter how hard we try... ::) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest88 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Agreed. A good room with a reasonably good system is almost always better than a lousy room with a super high end system. probably the room costs more than the system already in any case.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateway2heaven Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 probably the room costs more than the system already in any case.. :) The treatments in the room does not cost a lot. It was well worth every dollar spent. The difference with the treated and non treated room with the M40 is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asylum Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 this is kind of OT.. what kind of room shape is most ideal? assuming no room treatment done. now, with room treatment as a definite criteria, does the shape of the room really matter? should room treatment be done before placing hifi system is in the room OR start to figure out what's lacking (after having the hifi system in the room) and start to control damage by inserting room treatment at places which you think will control the damage? for the room bro joamonte visited in malaysia... what if another hifi system (similar bookshelf size but all components different brands)... will the room treatment still complement this other hifi system well too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest88 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The treatments in the room does not cost a lot. It was well worth every dollar spent. The difference with the treated and non treated room with the M40 is huge. Talking about the cost of the room itself. Physical space. Not just the cost of the treatment. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateway2heaven Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Talking about the cost of the room itself. Physical space. Not just the cost of the treatment. :) Well, I've got friends who use the master bedroom for hifi and the couple sleep in the smaller room. :) Cost of room is relative if you're prepared to sacrifice for good sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest88 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Well, I've got friends who use the master bedroom for hifi and the couple sleep in the smaller room. :) Cost of room is relative if you're prepared to sacrifice for good sound. I meant cost in dollar terms (relative to equipment) rather than to ownself and lifestyle. :) My point was when we say 'simple system in good room is better than hi-end system in lousy room', that the good room costs a lot as well. If we factor it in, this is probably the largest 'component'. Using your example, for your friend, it is possible he could have chosen to have a smaller home and maybe pay less mortgage since willing to sleep in smaller room, if he was not into hifi. :) Sorry for the OT.. think we have digressed enough here. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryder1624705984 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Gateway2heaven, may I ask what are the dimensions of the room? Is it a dedicated room? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateway2heaven Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 It's a dedicated room with a dimension of 14 x 15 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryder1624705984 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks Gateway. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 only scm20 that were produced after 2005 has SL drivers. The scm20 signature was produced much earlier than that. Those 20 that has SL would have "SL" in their model name. For example scm20SLT denotes passive tower with SL drivers. you mean the ATC signatures dont have an SL driver? o_O i thought they did. any material on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajrasattvasg Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 only scm20 that were produced after 2005 has SL drivers. The scm20 signature was produced much earlier than that. Those 20 that has SL would have "SL" in their model name. For example scm20SLT denotes passive tower with SL drivers. ok this is interesting. i thought the signature was SL as i was reading off audiogon.. maybe its not very accurate after all. whats the estimated 2nd hand price of an atc scm20SL on the market now? 09-29-01: Extremephono SCM20S is equivalent to SCM20SL, they were the first SCM20 to incorporate Biwire terminal and SL magnet. After that, all SCM20SL is basically similar. However, the S comes with beautiful Ebony veneer (which can no longer be had), and both side matched, a signature plague from Bill Woodman, and individually numbered. The treble is not 'stand-out' in ATC because they are accurate. If you have bright front end, then ATC will be bright. Most 'audiophile' speaker inaccurately placed the soundstage too far. ATC places them just right, I can 'shift' the soundstage if I do something wrong in the upstream setup. Used SCM20 for 4 years, upgraded to SCM50ASL. To add a bit of top end sparkle, get a pair of Totem Beak. 200W or more of solid state Class AB or 100W Class A mandatory for SCM20. Forget tube, even if you have high power like ARC Classic 120, it sounded mismatched, but Mcintosh 275 seemed to work fine. Expensive, don't think so. I will prefer SCM20SL over Wilson Watt. Make sure SCM20SL sits on 21" high stand. 24" is too high, and lost the balance somewhat. Please throw away the blue pads if you are getting the Sound Anchor stand. Anyone using SCM50, remove the rubber pads on the factory stand and replace with small globs of Blue Tack. The midrange will be much more transparent. Extremephono http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1000955330 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ok this is interesting. i thought the signature was SL as i was reading off audiogon.. maybe its not very accurate after all. whats the estimated 2nd hand price of an atc scm20SL on the market now? http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1000955330 Maybe there is a 20SL with Billy Woodman signature but I email to ATC before on the normal SCM20 with Billy Woodman signature plague and was told it's just a normal SCM20 with exotic wood and Billy Woodman plague. Have no idea on the pricing and pricing is subjective to the driver and cabinet condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joamonte Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Yes , the SCM 20 signature is not using SL driver , it is not using normal SCM 20 driver SBM75-150 either, in the ad at 1996 hong kong Hifi mag they claim the SCM 20sig using SB75-150 Mk 2, which used KELVAR diaphragm which different with old SCM 20, but due to some unknown reason,I read that the SCM 20 SL do not use KELVAR for the cone ...and yes before 20 sig ATC SCM 20 is non bi wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joamonte Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 this is kind of OT.. what kind of room shape is most ideal? assuming no room treatment done. 2 thing 1) Left / right wall is symmetric , a shoe box type of room is ideal. 2) Width is not too narrow , best is 3:4 ratio with Length. now, with room treatment as a definite criteria, does the shape of the room really matter? The objective of audiophile music room acoustic treatment is to control the room ambiance, reduce bass standing wave effect and wider the listening sweet spot , conventional shoe box room is easier to achieve that because it is more predictable. should room treatment be done before placing hifi system is in the room OR start to figure out what's lacking (after having the hifi system in the room) and start to control damage by inserting room treatment at places which you think will control the damage? Best can design before the deco is done , can integrate in to the reno , that is also why shoe box size music room is more preferred, because it is easy to predict the problem we will face before hand. for the room bro joamonte visited in malaysia... what if another hifi system (similar bookshelf size but all components different brands)... will the room treatment still complement this other hifi system well too? That is for sure..... good room acoustic treatment unable to(and should not) make a bad matching/setting system sound good ; bad room acoustic or wrong way of acoustic treatment will turn a good hi end sounding system into bad low fi sounding system . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asylum Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 thanks for the knowledgeable info! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 My memory failed me ...it looks like SL versions were available much much earlier. http://www.mikecollins.plus.com/PUBLICATIONS/PDFS/ATC%20SCM%2020%20SL.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 New addition to the family... a SCM20SLT. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajrasattvasg Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 beautiful! whats the damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimi1624705950 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Congrats, heavy birth weights! Do they integrate well in the room? I can see Francis shaking his head already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 beautiful! whats the damage? Bought used. Let's just say it's better than James asking and it's a SL tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 They are sealed boxes after all ;)....very room friendly. No bass humps at all and it goes a bit deeper than my 19 with more body in the midrange. Each speaker weighs abt 23kg. Congrats, heavy birth weights! Do they integrate well in the room? I can see Francis shaking his head already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larevoj Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 New addition to the family... a SCM20SLT. ;D Bro, congrats to your new purchase :) I think it will add more weight to your music now ;) hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimster Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Thanks. Hmm...meaning? Bro, congrats to your new purchase :) I think it will add more weight to your music now ;) hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larevoj Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Thanks. Hmm...meaning? Meaning in thought process... :) Btw, isn't this a passive speaker? Can't seems to see any where in ATC web site?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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