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CosmicJazz

Tri-amp with Integrated amp, help me to understand.

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I'm not understanding why the power amp on the luxman integrated will not drive the mids and highs if I send his "main in" into the mids and high on the active crossover...

 

 

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1 hour ago, CosmicJazz said:

if I send his "main in" into the mids and high on the active crossover...

 

Part of the problem, CJ, is ... you are trying to express yourself in English - which is obviously not your first language - when you don't have a clear idea of how to achieve what you want.  :(

 

You are not "sending the amp's "main in" into the mids and high on the active crossover ".  The amp sits after the active XO - so what you are doing is trying to feed the mids & highs from the active XO into the Luxman's "main in".

 

This won't work - as it contradicts the concept of an active XO!  Only one output from the active XO can feed into the Luxman's "main in".  So if you want the Luxman to power the mids & ribbons then:

  1. you only have 1 output from the Fostex feeding the Luxman, and
  2. you need to have a passive XO between the mid driver and the tweeter.

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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Oh I see, I think I understood now, yes, try to explain in english sometimes confuse me... anyway,  mids and highs from crossover output, unified by a cable splitter, into the "main in" on Luxman, will not work right? what will happen if I do this? the amp will blow heheheh?  😜

 

 

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10 hours ago, CosmicJazz said:

 

Oh I see, I think I understood now, yes, try to explain in english sometimes confuse me... anyway,  mids and highs from crossover output, unified by a cable splitter, into the "main in" on Luxman, will not work right? what will happen if I do this? the amp will blow heheheh?  😜

 

 

No, it will not work, CJ!  :thumb:

 

Coming out of the Fostex XO, you have 3 different music signals, designed to go into:

  • a bass amp
  • a mid amp, and
  • a tweeter amp.

In other words, the XO has split the frequency range into:

  • low range
  • medium range, and
  • high range.

This is so that each frequency range can feed into its own stereo amp - and then to the associated driver.  Why would you want to combine the medium and high ranges into one ... to then feed into a single amp?  (It doesn't make any sense!)

 

And, to repeat myself, if you are going to use your Luxman to power the mids & tweeters ... you can't just connect a mid driver and a tweeter to each output channel - you need a passive XO in between the amp and the 2 drivers, to separate the signal into mids ... and highs.  If you don't do this:

a. it will sound really weird as the same signal will be output from both the mid and the tweeter, and

b. you will burn out your tweeter by feeding it too much 'mid' frequencies.

 

Andy

 

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11 hours ago, CosmicJazz said:

Oh I see, I think I understood now, yes, try to explain in english sometimes confuse me... anyway,  mids and highs from crossover output, unified by a cable splitter, into the "main in" on Luxman, will not work right?

It will "work"....   but I don't see the purpose of that.    It isn't going to do what I think you expect it will.

11 hours ago, CosmicJazz said:

what will happen if I do this? the amp will blow heheheh?  

No.... but it will not do what you want.

 

 

Is this what you're trying to do?  (picture)

 

unnamed.jpg

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Hi CJ,

it looks like the Fostex can do 2 or 3 way active from the front panel photos

From what I can determine from the thread, you want to achieve what @davewantsmoore's put in his diagram???

 

Assuming that's the case, you want to configure the Fostex for 2 way stereo active (2way-2 on the front panel - where the switch is in the photo)

 

You'll need to check the instructions for the Fostex as to which outputs you use for 2 way operation.

 

cheers

Mike

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this is @davewantsmoore's diagram tweaked for what you have, assuming the Fostex is configured as 2 way active

 

biamp.thumb.JPG.3660f1896864678233772080a1346cf9.JPG

 

Things to consider:

  • If in your case you started with a 3 way passive speaker, the passive crossover to your mid will be a "bandpass" filter so have a high pass and low pass component - the Fostex will be managing high pass filtering now. Leaving the high pass passive filter for the mid won't give good summing with the woofer
  • There is no passive crossover required for the woofer - the Low Pass crossover is provided by the Fostex - if the woofer has a passive crossover, it needs to be removed.
  • I've run a fully active setup for over 20 years - prior to 2010 it was an analog tri-amp setup based around an analog dbx LR4 crossover - back then I thought it sounded amazing
  • these days the DSP crossovers sound great (ie transparent) are inexpensive, and provide lots more flexibility with EQ and delay capability than analog active devices can.
  • As much as I love active setups, I wouldn't bother with analog active anymore - especially if you're swapping out well designed passive crossovers

cheers

Mike

 

 

Edited by almikel

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18 hours ago, almikel said:

If in your case you started with a 3 way passive speaker

He is building/designing this speaker "from scratch".

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18 hours ago, almikel said:

I wouldn't bother with analog active anymore

There's nothing inherently wrong with it .... aside from the issue it has always had.

 

If you have two drivers, which will form a good speaker which they have a text-book butterworth or linkwitz riley (or whatever filer the active XO applies) ... then great.  That will work great.

 

.... but this practically never happens.... and will often be a long way from what you want.

 

So as a tool for "building a speaker from scratch" .... this type of crossover has never been a good tool.

 

If on the other hand (for example) you have a well designed two-way (including passive XO's, etc)  ... and you wanted to add a subwoofer and super-tweeter to it....  then something like this would be a good tool.

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^^ I agree with Dave's last post, and said basically the same thing to you when you started a similar thread on diyaudio.

 

My take on what you've been trying to describe is drawn out below; it will work, but I wouldn't bother. I could easily find another power amp for the cost of the parts you're going to need for the MF/HF passive xover, and to be brutally honest, you're not indicating to me that you have the necessary experience of skills to pull off a good passive xover.

 

Stick with 3 way active or buy a kit where someone has designed the xover for you.

Luxman.jpg

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3 hours ago, A9X said:

drawn out below

Yes, if that's what he's trying to do.... then he just need to put the XO he has into "2 way" mode.... and read the book to figure out how to hook it up correctly.

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Hello guys, thank you very much for the patience in explain everything, now I understood why it will not work the way that. I was thinking about...

 

Many thanks again, best regards to all.

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^^ I agree with Dave's last post, and said basically the same thing to you when you started a similar thread on diyaudio.
 
My take on what you've been trying to describe is drawn out below; it will work, but I wouldn't bother. I could easily find another power amp for the cost of the parts you're going to need for the MF/HF passive xover, and to be brutally honest, you're not indicating to me that you have the necessary experience of skills to pull off a good passive xover.
 
Stick with 3 way active or buy a kit where someone has designed the xover for you.
Luxman.thumb.jpg.4cd8787f6acfce6671fa4a680c7ed858.jpg
I don't think that will work, as I think you can't use the Luxman as a Pre and Power amp at the same time. I believe the power amp is an input selection that disables/bypassing the volume control.

I could be wrong.

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18 minutes ago, Primare Knob said:

I don't think that will work, as I think you can't use the Luxman as a Pre and Power amp at the same time. I believe the power amp is an input selection that disables/bypassing the volume control.

I could be wrong.

I think you are wrong. I've never seen an integrated with a pre-out/main in that didn't have the separation basically at the output of the preamp/input to the poweramp, exactly as if they were a two box in the one box. This includes all the amps I own as well as the thousands I've repaired over the years.

I'll happily be corrected if someone can find a schematic, and the Lux is an odd duck. It's easy enough for CJ to test too.

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