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Bi-amp SET with silicon?


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Just wondering if this worth trying.     Speakers are my Osborn Ref. Eclipse.   I have the strapped for a single amp at the moment. Previous owner had them bi-wired, and not convinced on that.  But I am thinking of bi-amping.

 

Does anyone use a single ended triode amp for the highs and a silicon amp for the lows in a bi-amp setup?  I know the Osborns aren't super sensitive (89db?), but I don't need much volume as I sit fairly close to my speakers, and I've used the SETs with worse :)    The crossover is 3300Hz I believe.

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I used to bi-amp, tubes for the treble/mids and solid state for bass was getting a bit more detail from the speakers but not enough to warrant it I went back to a nice integrated and haven't missed it, might be different for you though the detail you get/hear might be worth it.

 

Bi-wiring is a waste of time does nothing.

Edited by BATMAQN
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25 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Just wondering if this worth trying.     Speakers are my Osborn Ref. Eclipse.   I have the strapped for a single amp at the moment. Previous owner had them bi-wired, and not convinced on that.  But I am thinking of bi-amping.

 

Does anyone use a single ended triode amp for the highs and a silicon amp for the lows in a bi-amp setup?  I know the Osborns aren't super sensitive (89db?), but I don't need much volume as I sit fairly close to my speakers, and I've used the SETs with worse :)    The crossover is 3300Hz I believe.

It should work fine as long as:

 

Can calibrate gains

SET (and your ears) is ok with the varying impedance

SET has enough power (should do for most typical program material)

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10 minutes ago, BATMAQN said:

I used to bi-amp, tubes for the treble/mids and solid state for bass was getting a bit more detail from the speakers but not enough to warrant it I went back to a nice integrated and haven't missed it, might be different for you though the detail you get/hear might be worth it.

 

Bi-wiring is a waste of time does nothing.

 

So it's marginal?  That was my concern.   

 

...and yes, I'm  still to understand how bi-wiring achieves anything worthwhile.

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6 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

It should work fine as long as:

 

Can calibrate gains

SET (and your ears) is ok with the varying impedance

SET has enough power (should do for most typical program material)

Right.  The SET will have enough power, especially if I limit the low frequencies to it's input, so it doesn't waste energy on low frequencies.

 

Interesting comment re: varying impedance.  I take it you mean because it's working into a cross-over and multiple drivers.

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1 minute ago, aussievintage said:

 

So it's marginal?  That was my concern.   

 

...and yes, I'm  still to understand how bi-wiring achieves anything worthwhile.

My experience was, if you already have the amps on hand give it a go it might be worth it for you nothing to lose but a bit of your time.

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10 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Right.  The SET will have enough power, especially if I limit the low frequencies to it's input, so it doesn't waste energy on low frequencies.

 

Interesting comment re: varying impedance.  I take it you mean because it's working into a cross-over and multiple drivers.

 

I use six channels of SET for my 6-way horns....it can be done even in the low frequencies.

 

Most, though not all, SET amps have a higher output impedance which means that the frequency response of the loudspeaker ends up sort of following the impedance curve of the loudspeaker...high impedances = more volume, low impedance = less volume.  So if you use a high output impedance amplifier (does not have to be a SET) on speakers that are designed for low output impedance amplifiers you will end up with an altered frequency response unless the speakers have a benign impedance curve ie. flat resistive load.  

 

My SET amps have 0.19R output impedance which is as low as many SS PP amps, so they are not as concerned with impedance variations as something with say 100R output Z or even higher.  Have a look at this page.  

 

So, depends on the speaker load and depends of the output impedance of the amp (among other things)

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19 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

The SET will have enough power, especially if I limit the low frequencies to it's input, so it doesn't waste energy on low frequencies.

That won't make any difference.

 

19 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Interesting comment re: varying impedance.  I take it you mean because it's working into a cross-over and multiple drivers.

The SET amplifier might have a significant amount of output impedance  (where as typical solid state amplifiers have a close to 0 output impedance).

 

This will mean that the amplifier frequency response may vary as the speaker impedance varies.    This may or may not be a "problem" for you.

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3 minutes ago, acg said:

 

I use six channels of SET for my 6-way horns....it can be done even in the low frequencies.

 

Most, though not all, SET amps have a higher output impedance which means that the frequency response of the loudspeaker ends up sort of following the impedance curve of the loudspeaker...high impedances = more volume, low impedance = less volume.  So if you use a high output impedance amplifier (does not have to be a SET) on speakers that are designed for low output impedance amplifiers you will end up with an altered frequency response unless the speakers have a benign impedance curve ie. flat resistive load.  

 

My SET amps have 0.19R output impedance which is as low as many SS PP amps, so they are not as concerned with impedance variations as something with say 100R output Z or even higher.  Have a look at this page.  

 

So, depends on the speaker load and depends of the output impedance of the amp (among other things)

 

I need to get a look at the impedance curve for the intended OSborn Eclipse speakers then.    My SET amp is just a typical 2A3 SET design, so it will behave as you suggest.

 

... or just try it :) 

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1 minute ago, davewantsmoore said:

This, and gain structure ... and a few other potential issues ..... are some of the reasons why people have been reported to hear a "day and night" difference when biamping.

I now expect it to sound different, but better?   I really am going to have to try it.  

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22 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

I now expect it to sound different

Perhaps.... but if it does it is almost certainly because you have upset the original design of the speaker....  which of course, you might like.

 

Quote

, but better?

You should not expect that .... unless your speaker was overloading your single amplifier.

Edited by davewantsmoore
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1 minute ago, davewantsmoore said:

You should not expect that .... unless your speaker was overloading your single amplifier.

So, do I read into that, that you are not a fan of Bi-amping?  My perspective is more that I always liked my SET amp, except for the low end, so this might be a nice combination.

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35 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

So, do I read into that, that you are not a fan of Bi-amping?  My perspective is more that I always liked my SET amp, except for the low end, so this might be a nice combination.

You should not expect any technical performance gains for biamping aside from what I mentioned.... and I wouldn't specifically recommend using two different types of amps to biamp a typical speaker, no.

 

 

If you have an amp which "sounds a specific way" .... then you might like the opportunity to include that sound in the speaker.

 

.... but remember, thinking about "why" the amp might sounds the way it does (eg. output impedance on a SET) .... the result when just applied to one part of the speaker, might not be the best.

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OK, dragged my SET amp out of the study and into the living room - speakers are too heavy to move so this was easier :)

 

Interesting experiment, but this isn't going to happen.  The SET amp sounds "shouty" through the Osborns.  It doesn't sound like that through my 8" Fostex driven TQWT speakers, so  @acg and @davewantsmoore   were right.    

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