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hi all,

 

I've been sussing out Roon via its 30 day day free trial and i must say I am rather happy and impressed with it.   It certainly does a lot and is a welcome addition to the resources for any music loving person (such as myself).

 

One thing that bothers me though is the price for lifetime "membership".   It is expensive - i mean i can get myself a semi-decent pair of bookshelf speakers for that.  Something real, something i can look at, something that owns another carton that sits in the shed.

 

Fair enough i can pay for a yearly subscription and i think i will do that- at first.  But what bugs me, and from what i understand, one of the reasons Roon is so expensive because the cost includes the various services that Roon utilises.   Things like artist bio info, imagery, catalogue info, tour dates etc - these are using third party providers and part of the subscription covers the cost for that information.

 

So anyway, if more and more people choose to pay for the lifetime membership then how does Roon get continual money to support those external payments?  I assume the yearly memberships caters for these fees but i am guessing after about 4 or so years of a lifetime membership then Roon is still spending this money to pay for these services but not getting it back when someone pays for a lifetime subscription - forever.  They just keep paying for it (and maybe relying on more yearly subscriptions).  How much profit do they make if 80% of the people pay for lifetime subscription and keep that for say 10 years (while the company is still paying out those fees)

 

Is this a hole in their business model?

 

Looking one step further, what happens if Roon goes bust (because of these ongoing outgoing fees).  We've invested close to $750 AUD into it which is a fair whack of money.

 

These are the questions i am pondering at the moment.

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This topic comes up a lot and I really don't think people need to worry about it. If Roon falls on hard times, the software will be snapped by somebody in the industry - I would put money on it. Plus, with new brands and products being added constantly as certified, clearly they are doing something right. 

I pay subscription fees for various services - Tidal, Spotify (for the wife), Netflix, Amazon Prime and Adobe Creative Cloud. Looking at those music services specifically, I have already spent far more on them than the lifetime cost of Roon.

If Roon went under, I wouldn't for a minute be upset about my financial investment in the software, I would be more upset aboutlosing the awesome service that has provided me with an unbelievable platform to discover new music, coupled with a fantastic intuitive control system.

And my financial commitment to Roon exceeds the subscription model - I own a Roon Nucleus!

Edited by Hydrology
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Each of us have our own concept of value vs cost. For some, the lifetime fee is less than a stereo component but others think it is too costly.

 

You will be get both views but not sure that will help you make a decision. Value is in the eye of the beholder...

 

P/s did not take up Roon after 3 month trial, not enough value for me...

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9 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

 

I pay subscription fees for various services - Tidal, Spotify (for the wife), Netflix, Amazon Prime and Adobe Creative Cloud. Looking at those music services specifically, I have already spent far more on them than the lifetime cost of Roon.

 

Funny you mention about other subscription costs.  I actually don't subscribe to any streaming service - ie no netflix, no tidal, no spotify.  Nothing.   I just dont like the concept of paying for something like that and instead, prefer to have my own sources of music, movies etc.  Content that i can play without the need for a net connection and content that i can lend to a friend.  Content that i can leave to someone when i finally depart this earth.

 

I have a very large music collection made up of many, and i mean many CDs, records etc.  I was in the radio game for over 10 years and i got plenty of samples sent to me and also have built up my own rather extensive library.   Just dont see the need to pay to stream things to me via a net connection when i am still enjoying my own music (which i am still discovering and enjoying).  If i get wind of something new then i try and physically buy it.

 

Besides, I have learnt that you cannot always rely on the net being there - especially when you dont live in a major centre and when you also travel a fair bit and like being away from other people.  I take my own music with me - it is just my preference.  I am an album listener, not a single listener and that is the way i enjoy it.  That is, repeat listening of an album while relaxing or looking up at the stars.

 

Anyway, I am hijacking my own thread.

 

I also believe Roon will quickly get snapped up if need be.  I like Roon a lot and i can myself forking out for it.   I was and still am a JRiver supporter but there are just a few quirks in there that upset me.   Likewise, if Roon was able to give me access to file level and a tag manager like JRiver can then i would be fully happy there too.  If only a marriage could take place between Roon and JRiver.

 

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I’m still paying an annual fee - wish I committed rightvat the start as it would he’s been much cheaper for me in the long run.

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1 hour ago, captain starlight said:

 

 

I have a very large music collection made up of many, and i mean many CDs, records etc.  I was in the radio game for over 10 years and i got plenty of samples sent to me and also have built up my own rather extensive library.   Just dont see the need to pay to stream things to me via a net connection when i am still enjoying my own music (which i am still discovering and enjoying).  If i get wind of something new then i try and physically buy it.

 

 

As do I. I spend more of my (limited) disposable income on vinyl, and have for years. My CD collection has been ripped and is now available inside Roon, but again, Roon, and in particular their Roon Radio feature means Ive spent more on physical media this year in particular than any year previously. Its helped tremendously in discovering new music, which is what its all about.

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I nearly bought the lifetime when our $ was on parity with the US..............................would have been a sensible decision, I reckon!

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I use Roon, but only because my streamer doesn’t do a good job of steaming Tidal directly.

 

My experience is that Roon is good if you have lots of your own music ripped. If you only use it for Tidal, it isn’t worth it because all you get is someone’s review of an album and some bio’s. 

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18 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

 

I nearly bought the lifetime when our $ was on parity with the US..............................would have been a sensible decision, I reckon!

@LogicprObe,

 

I bought mine four years ago when the value of the A$ was much better.  An important consideration for me was that the lifetime license is transferable.

Note the small print 

https://roonlabs.com/pricing.html

 

I am very pleased with ROON and do not intend to sell the license.  However if in the future I no longer needed ROON I could sell and probably do quite nicely financially.

Maybe even get most of my money back and have had the benefit for what ever period of time for little outlay.

 

John

Edited by Assisi
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2 hours ago, Assisi said:

@LogicprObe,

 

I bought mine four years ago when the value of the A$ was much better.  An important consideration for me was that the lifetime license is transferable.

Note the small print 

https://roonlabs.com/pricing.html

 

I am very pleased with ROON and do not intend to sell the license.  However if in the future I no longer needed ROON I could sell and probably do quite nicely financially.

Maybe even get most of my money back and have had the benefit for what ever period of time for little outlay.

 

John

I'm not sure you can transfer your Room licence to someone else.

My understanding is you can transfer it to another computer after de-authorising the first computer but if you sell it to another person they are going to have to take over your username which is usually your email address.

Correct me if I  am wrong.

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19 minutes ago, a.dent said:

I'm not sure you can transfer your Room licence to someone else.

My understanding is you can transfer it to another computer after de-authorising the first computer but if you sell it to another person they are going to have to take over your username which is usually your email address.

Correct me if I  am wrong.

I asked Roon and they confirmed that it cannot be transferred

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14 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

I asked Roon and they confirmed that it cannot be transferred

Yes. My understanding too.

Of course, if you set up the original licence with a new email address that you won't ever use for anything but Roon you could theoretically transfer the licence to someone else and they would use that email address.

It seems bit hit and miss to me though.

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3 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

Ironically, as a graphic designer enthusiast, I dont. As a race, we are very visual creatures.

 

Yes we are, with value being in the eye of the beholder.

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4 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

 

Yes we are, with value being in the eye of the beholder.

Correct, however for me (and many) its more than just a pretty GUI. To each his own.

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3 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

Correct, however for me (and many) its more than just a pretty GUI. To each his own.

 

On its GUI - is it constantly being tinkered with, or have they stuck with the same appearance for a while now?

 

I’ve been using Spotify for over 5 years now and have been happy with their GUI, until recently when the constant tinkering is making it a bit clunky, IMHO.

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30 minutes ago, Kaynin said:

I have trouble paying for a GUI.

 

12 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

Correct, however for me (and many) its more than just a pretty GUI. To each his own.

Many people rave about the GUI which I could not understand? Perhaps, it was one way for people to justify the cost?

 

Definitely, to each his own. 

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On 30/08/2019 at 4:31 PM, captain starlight said:

hi all,

 

I've been sussing out Roon via its 30 day day free trial and i must say I am rather happy and impressed with it.   It certainly does a lot and is a welcome addition to the resources for any music loving person (such as myself).

 

One thing that bothers me though is the price for lifetime "membership".   It is expensive - i mean i can get myself a semi-decent pair of bookshelf speakers for that.  Something real, something i can look at, something that owns another carton that sits in the shed.

 

Fair enough i can pay for a yearly subscription and i think i will do that- at first.  But what bugs me, and from what i understand, one of the reasons Roon is so expensive because the cost includes the various services that Roon utilises.   Things like artist bio info, imagery, catalogue info, tour dates etc - these are using third party providers and part of the subscription covers the cost for that information.

 

So anyway, if more and more people choose to pay for the lifetime membership then how does Roon get continual money to support those external payments?  I assume the yearly memberships caters for these fees but i am guessing after about 4 or so years of a lifetime membership then Roon is still spending this money to pay for these services but not getting it back when someone pays for a lifetime subscription - forever.  They just keep paying for it (and maybe relying on more yearly subscriptions).  How much profit do they make if 80% of the people pay for lifetime subscription and keep that for say 10 years (while the company is still paying out those fees)

 

Is this a hole in their business model?

 

Looking one step further, what happens if Roon goes bust (because of these ongoing outgoing fees).  We've invested close to $750 AUD into it which is a fair whack of money.

 

These are the questions i am pondering at the moment.

This is a luxury product,  it doesnt do anything that you cant do elsewhere and in most cases freely. The difference is it does it all in one package with little to no effort from you.  If you think its a good product and something you would like then you have to evaluate the cost and whether you are prepared to pay the price they ask (or just do it all yourself). It sounds like you are prepared to pay for at least one year. Somewhere down the track you will need to decide if you think its better to buy a lifetime then go year to year. All businesses can fail. If any high end amp manufacturer fails (say Devialet  that has proprietary technology and a 5 year warranty) your warranty is worthless and your product's value (which could be into the 10's of thousands) will fall like a sack of potatoes. Will Devialet fail? maybe. Will Roon fail? maybe. One thing is sure. You will not know about it before it happens as that would instantly stop all sales. We all just have to make our choices.  I have Roon lifetime and initially started with a one year sub. Just remember they will credit you the remaining money on your one year sub if you decide to go lifetime before your one year expires.

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I guess the main thing that seems to be overlooked by the few that are saying it's just a GUI, don't understand the backend behind it.  To me it's not so much the way the interface looks. It's the fact that this is one piece of software that will tie all of your devices together into what ever control device you have near to hand. (Ones that are compatible with roon of course). This is so hugely useful to those that run more than one setup. You may have a dedicated listening room, a lounge room, an alfresco, study, shed setup or more and with roon, all your rooms can become controllable all from the same interface regardless of device. So wifey may have an iPhone, you and Android, kids an iPad, computer in the study and the whole house becomes integrated just like that. With the same look and feel. Have a look at what other companies charge for that kind of interoperability across multiple different branded device's for both the playback and control. 

If you only have one setup then yes, the interface your device manufacture/streaming service provides will probably do just fine. Same goes if you lock into one of the ecosystems (Sonos, blusound, etc)

 

This is where the cost can often be justified.

 

Will roon go bust, well, nothing lasts forever. But I do hope it sticks around for a while yet.

Edited by todagt
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8 minutes ago, todagt said:

I guess the main thing that seems to be overlooked by the few that are saying it's just a GUI, don't understand the backend behind it.  To me it's not so much the way the interface looks. It's the fact that this is one piece of software that will tie all your devices together into what ever control device you near to hand. (Ones that are compatible with roon of course). This is so hugely useful to those that run more than one setup. You may have a dedicated listening room, a lounge room, and alfresco, study, shed setup or more and with roon, all your rooms can become controllable all from the same interface regardless of device. So wifey may have an iPhone, you and Android, kids an iPad, computer in the study and the whole house becomes integrated just like that. Have a look at what other companies charge for that kind of interoperability across multiple different branded device's for both the playback and control. 

If you only have one setup then yes, the interface your device manufacture/streaming service provides will probably do just fine. Same goes if you lock into one of the ecosystems (Sonos, blusound, etc)

 

This is where the cost can often be justified.

 

Will roon go bust, well, nothing lasts forever. But I do hope it sticks around for a while yet.

It ties them all together if you use all of the one type of device.... 

This is probably my biggest issue and one I hope they can fix. You can't group Sonos, microrendu and Linn together. You have to be in the 1 networking system across all endpoints. 

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40 minutes ago, Bunno77 said:

It ties them all together if you use all of the one type of device.... 

This is probably my biggest issue and one I hope they can fix. You can't group Sonos, microrendu and Linn together. You have to be in the 1 networking system across all endpoints. 

Yes, that would be nice. 

 

It still doesn't take away the fact you can still control it all from the same place/app. 

Imagine if you had to open all the different apps, build the same playlists just to get some music happening in your rooms. 

 

I just used to load up the same playlists for the different groups (which was airplay and RAAT) then hit play at the same time. Worked a treat ?

And the simple fact that I could do that means there must be some way of the software doing the same thing. Even if it had to be some kind of party mode with reduced quality (which I'm sure you wouldn't notice since you would be moving from room to room) that would be pretty useful.

 

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On 31/08/2019 at 7:03 PM, a.dent said:

I'm not sure you can transfer your Room licence to someone else.

My understanding is you can transfer it to another computer after de-authorising the first computer but if you sell it to another person they are going to have to take over your username which is usually your email address.

Correct me if I  am wrong.

 

On 31/08/2019 at 7:23 PM, Snoopy8 said:

I asked Roon and they confirmed that it cannot be transferred

To the above and others my assumption was  very wrong!  My apologies.  I wonder what the word transferable means?  Warranties are often transferable from owner to owner with quality products.  I won't be testing the matter at law.   As I said I do not intend to stop using ROON in the foreseeable future.  A year from now as I have lifetime sub it will be free ongoing.  I find  ROON very useful in my setup!!!

 

John

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1 hour ago, Bunno77 said:

It ties them all together if you use all of the one type of device.... 

This is probably my biggest issue and one I hope they can fix. You can't group Sonos, microrendu and Linn together. You have to be in the 1 networking system across all endpoints. 

For me this is not a huge concern, especially when you consider how Roon allows any file format to play to any product that would otherwise offer up incompatibilty (DSD files to Sonos for example).

 

 

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17 hours ago, Bunno77 said:

It ties them all together if you use all of the one type of device.... 

This is probably my biggest issue and one I hope they can fix. You can't group Sonos, microrendu and Linn together. You have to be in the 1 networking system across all endpoints. 

Sure, but you aren't in multiple rooms at the same time either. On Saturday we had friends coming over. In the morning I had Roon radio playing in my family room on the Moon streaming integrated whilst cleaning and preparing food. Then transferred the signal to my Sonos amp and alfresco speakers. I went out to the backyard to get the low and slow BBQ going and sit by the Chiminea and relax for a while and spend some time with the kids. Later in the day when final preps for the dinner party started I transferred back to the family room and it stayed on till midnight and never missed a beat.

 

I can also transfer to my HT rooms Marantz processor or to a Sonos Play3 upstairs, all from my phone, my wifes phone or my ipad. Brilliant. A party mode between different brands etc would be excellent but my main featured I'd like would be Spotify as a streaming source, as I prefer it's library to tidals, despite slightly lesser SQ. If I want ultimate SQ I use my TT.

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17 hours ago, Hydrology said:

For me this is not a huge concern, especially when you consider how Roon allows any file format to play to any product that would otherwise offer up incompatibilty (DSD files to Sonos for example).

 

 

 

1 hour ago, blybo said:

Sure, but you aren't in multiple rooms at the same time either. On Saturday we had friends coming over. In the morning I had Roon radio playing in my family room on the Moon streaming integrated whilst cleaning and preparing food. Then transferred the signal to my Sonos amp and alfresco speakers. I went out to the backyard to get the low and slow BBQ going and sit by the Chiminea and relax for a while and spend some time with the kids. Later in the day when final preps for the dinner party started I transferred back to the family room and it stayed on till midnight and never missed a beat.

 

I can also transfer to my HT rooms Marantz processor or to a Sonos Play3 upstairs, all from my phone, my wifes phone or my ipad. Brilliant. A party mode between different brands etc would be excellent but my main featured I'd like would be Spotify as a streaming source, as I prefer it's library to tidals, despite slightly lesser SQ. If I want ultimate SQ I use my TT.

Yeah it isn't the end of the world but I don't think anyone would say that it isn't a feature that would be appreciated and useful. Having used Sonos, Linn and even multi zone from an AVR it is very handy to be able to group all or run individually.

Like @todagt said it can be done manually so surely it could be worked in somehow.

 

Definitely agree that other streaming services would be a great addition. Sonos really are great with this and I think they have all of them but maybe they have exclusive rights to do so?

 

Anyways I think adding more features and services will only help Roon's longevity when the competition becomes better and larger. I enjoy using Bubbleupnp too and it keeps getting better.

 

Edited by Bunno77
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21 hours ago, Assisi said:

 

To the above and others my assumption was  very wrong!  My apologies.  I wonder what the word transferable means?  Warranties are often transferable from owner to owner with quality products.  I won't be testing the matter at law.   As I said I do not intend to stop using ROON in the foreseeable future.  A year from now as I have lifetime sub it will be free ongoing.  I find  ROON very useful in my setup!!!

 

John

The current terms and conditions state

1. Grant and scope of license

1.1 Subject to the terms and conditions of this License you are hereby granted a limited non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use the Roon Software and the Documentation on the terms of this License.

 

but whilst not meeting the terms and conditions, it is possible to change the email address and credit card for Roon, so technically you could transfer the software

 

I think the original intent and still is that, you are free to transfer Roon licence to any device you want as long as there is only one master device. whether. NAS, Laptop, media streamer. etc. In that sense you can shift the licence, unlike say a copy of Windows 10 that came with your laptop (OEM licence).

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Demondes said:

as long as there is only one master device

@Demondes,

Hi Derek,

 

That was my understanding sometime ago.   That is why I thought that the license was transferable to another person.  As I am not interested in giving up ROON I will not be pursung the matter any further at this time.  You explanation gives me some confidence though if I need to consider things in the distant future.

Thank you

John

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16 hours ago, Demondes said:

I think the original intent and still is that, you are free to transfer Roon licence to any device you want as long as there is only one master device. whether. NAS, Laptop, media streamer. etc. In that sense you can shift the licence, unlike say a copy of Windows 10 that came with your laptop (OEM licence).

1 thing I'd love is the ability to run a 2nd core at work with a copy of my music files without paying for a 2nd licence. I can't justify the cost but it would be nice.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 30/08/2019 at 4:31 PM, captain starlight said:

How much profit do they make if 80% of the people pay for lifetime subscription and keep that for say 10 years (while the company is still paying out those fees)

 

Is this a hole in their business model?

Roon indicated in an email that around one third of their user base are lifetime subscribers. So, as things stand, they receive regular annuity income from two thirds of their subscriber base.

 

Quoted from their email (with relevant text boldfaced):

Quote

To continue enjoying Roon, you'll need an annual membership or take the leap along with over a third of our members and go for a Lifetime membership! Whichever you choose, you’ll enjoy all the great features and metadata enhancements we have planned for the duration of your membership!

 

Edited by Ed Sky
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OP here and I guess I am updating you all on what I did with roon.

 

well I forked out for a yearly subscription - and then after a year, if all goes well and fingers crossed the exchange rate will be better, I will go for the lifetime license then.  

 

I just didnt want want to spend that type of money on the software now. I do know that I may end up paying more by getting a yearly and then going for lifetime but I just feel better doing it this way.

 

btw - I had the money to go for lifetime but didnt want to.. So I bought a 10tb drive as well for backup/backup purposes -ie triple backup.

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  • 1 month later...

I've gone for yearly as well. I must say I'm really enjoying it. I've been using various bits of streaming software - from primare, pioneer, m-connect, Yamaha, etc - because I've got a number of stereo systems around the house. It was a hassle, confusing for the family, and I was suffering droplets and other problems.

 

Roon is a simple solution that works and is fun to use. I'm discovering lots of new music (via tidal). I'm a convert, at least until the next big thing arrives.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 05/11/2019 at 9:28 AM, Bails said:

Roon is a simple solution that works and is fun to use. I'm discovering lots of new music (via tidal). I'm a convert, at least until the next big thing arrives.

The next big thing has arrived in ROON 1.7

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