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less well known IDLER drives


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garrard 301 and 401

thorens 124

lenco

then maybe

dual 1209,1009

so what about elac miracord?

pepetual ebernezer? roc o kurt{sp]?

suspect that idler drives below thorens and i may not be compatible but thought there may be some experts here who might like to share

anyone able to pick up in sydny might look at this as a cheap fun project

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320662468447&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_516wt_1141

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THANKS saw that

problem is sorting 'wheat from chaff'

10 audio karma people will say miracord r fantastic but provide no benchmark for comparison, the 11 th will say they dont rate along side garrard 301 401

i suspect both r correct but at very different SQ points

*miracord may equal better older duals and this can be accurate for that SQ point but THEY MAY BE WELL SHORT OF Garrards best

anyone played with lots of idler drives? views?

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The Elac/Miracord 50 H used the famous Papst outer rotor synchronous motor and would be a good candidate for a rebuild,on the lines of a new bearing and spindle,new arm and plinth etc.The Miracord was considerably dearer than the competing Dual and they are relatively rare models.On the subject of rare idler turntables, the early Connoisseur 3 speed transcription models made in the late 50's to early 60's,should be highlighted as candidate amongst the best of the genre.

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vanarn thanks

can u nominate any specific models of connoisseur?

cheekyboys 401 sounds fine to me but 'anti idlers' tell me the noise will turn me off? which r most silent

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The Connoisseur models to look out for started with the "Transcription Motor" which used a synchronous motor with adjustable nylon bearings for the motor and turntable bearings.This model had a cast alloy rectangular base plate finished in hammertone.The mat was inlaid with strobe patterns.This model was gradually replaced by the Type B version which put the strobe underneath the platter and used a mirror viewing arrangement.Simpler models called the Crafstman two speed and three speed replaced the transcription units in about 1964.My experience with the earlier models left me with the impression that Arnold Sugden had manufactured a better turntable than the 301 in that rumble transmitted from the motor was reduced and speed stability better by virtue of the synchronous motor with taperered speed adjustment,avoiding the loading effects of the eddy current method of the Garrard.

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cheekyboys 401 sounds fine to me but 'anti idlers' tell me the noise will turn me off? which r most silent

agreed, you could do a lot worse that cheekys setup. I've only heard it once, but I must say I couldn't hear any rumble

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
The Connoisseur models to look out for started with the "Transcription Motor" which used a synchronous motor with adjustable nylon bearings for the motor and turntable bearings.This model had a cast alloy rectangular base plate finished in hammertone.The mat was inlaid with strobe patterns.This model was gradually replaced by the Type B version which put the strobe underneath the platter and used a mirror viewing arrangement.Simpler models called the Crafstman two speed and three speed replaced the transcription units in about 1964.My experience with the earlier models left me with the impression that Arnold Sugden had manufactured a better turntable than the 301 in that rumble transmitted from the motor was reduced and speed stability better by virtue of the synchronous motor with taperered speed adjustment,avoiding the loading effects of the eddy current method of the Garrard.

Vanarn, I have a type B do you have any additional info on them I have searched everywhare but little can be found.

Bryan

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Encel Electronics where at one time the importers for the Connoisseur T/T's,although I cannot say if they specifically brought in the B version as a change of agents took place in the 60's.The transcription models certainly were not manufactured in large quantities and are very rare in Australia.Your model was an improvement over the previous model especially in that the adjustable nylon bearings became graphite loaded material which improved lubrication and reduced friction.The only improvements that I made concerned a reduction in mains voltage to the motor and the addition of two wooden struts under the base plate.The voltage tended to be around 250V in the area that I lived and since the Decca cartridge was prone to hum pickup when nearer the motor field,this proved to be beneficial.The struts were put either side of the platter bearing assembly reaching to the arm pedestal and dampened vibrational noise transmitted in the metal base plate.

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The Elac/Miracord 50 H used the famous Papst outer rotor synchronous motor and would be a good candidate for a rebuild,on the lines of a new bearing and spindle,new arm and plinth etc.The Miracord was considerably dearer than the competing Dual and they are relatively rare models.On the subject of rare idler turntables, the early Connoisseur 3 speed transcription models made in the late 50's to early 60's,should be highlighted as candidate amongst the best of the genre.

Whilst the Elac was a good performer, the Duals (1218, et al) employed considerably superior tone arms. Trackability of the Duals far exceeded the performance of the Elacs.

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i managed to find a PE perpetuum ebner 2020L

Required a bit of fiddling but is working well now

predecessor to the dual company owned by 1 of the 2 'dual' brothers.

PE has superior quality heavier all metal parts and tonearm to th [early] duals.

U can c 1 on internet face book i think

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dual 1219 idler drive in sydney ends to night pick up

dual models ending in "9" indicate top model of the range

pick up only or i would b tempted

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320656646762&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_758wt_1141

I am spew'in I missed this gem. Sold for a measley 152 bucks. The 1219 is very hard to find and is the best Dual 1200 series model made. 12 inch platter and hand made tonearm. It appeared to be well looked after and the plinth base it was in are like rocking horse you know what to find.

I have a 1228 and a 1229 which are fabulous German units from yester year but would sit behind the 1219 for build quality.

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Err, that was me. The unit was in v good condition and for the money.........well , but surprisingly I havent played it yet due to being away a lot and my music room is being finished. Thanks for the heads up on the quality of it, I collect quite a few idlers so will be interesting to compare soon.

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garrard 301 and 401

thorens 124

lenco

then maybe

dual 1209,1009

Another one for the list....

EMT%20930st-Blue%20Special.jpg

The legendary EMT 930ST

cheers

2sheds

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G'day Andrew. A bit cool out west today? A good red may be required.

cheers

2sheds

Tea is the main beverage of choice these days mate. A heartwarming 2 degrees in the shed this morning.

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Picked up a NIB Dual 1229 about 12 months back for $200. Was a bit suspicious but purchased it anyway and it is the real deal. Must have been kept in a cool environment as a rubber band holding one of the parts in the packaging had not fully perished and could still be careful stretched without breaking. Remarkable considering it is some 40 years old. I am in the process of building a two-tiered plinth of 3 pieces each using 18mm marine ply hoop pine separated by gold height adjustable speaker spikes.

Had a 1019 delivered yesterday for $50 plus $20 postage. Have inspected it and it appears to be in good working condition The plinth is a dual original in perfect condition however the cover is a mix of Perspex & timber and the glue has let go. No big deal to fix. It is missing a power plug that I will rectify tomorrow and give it a play.

Should the 1019 be ok I will put a new SureM97XE on both players and play them through the same system. There is a lot of discussion between Dual enthusiasts as to which of these two players is the gem in the vintage Dual crown and I would like to make my own general assessment. As they will have different plinths I guess it won’t be an exact comparison but near enough.

Also have a vintage Peak 69 idler, I purchased from Jasper, to compare with them also. Don’t know anything about this idler, as there is virtually nothing on the net and have seen only one other for sale. That’s not to say there aren’t a few floating around somewhere. Should anyone have any info on this idler would appreciate you passing it on. PM me if you wish. This machine is in a custom made box and I am sure it would benefit from a new solid plinth. None the less it is not in the class of a Garrard 301, 401, Thorens 124 or Lenco, so I've been told. I must admit that I've never been fortunate enough to hear any of those aforementioned players.

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pepper

sounds fun

report back

the 'Peak' interests me when i bought a perpetual ebner PE idler recently it came attached to a Peak integrated amp <deceased estate auction with ground wire connecting both

the PEAK name badge was post production glued on so i assume it came from a larger batch.

the amp is interesting high quality japanese SS with switches for rumble and scratch from mid 70s < bought with PE which was a precursor to the early duals

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djb

Do you know if the Peak company still exists in Japan? Found a Peak Audio in the US who make DJ Amps but it does not appear to have been around as long as my table and your Amp so guess it's not related to the Japanese mob. Your's is only the third vintage Peak (2 t/ts and your Amp) that I have heard of so perhaps they were not into too much export: to Australia at least. Interesting to read that your Amp is high quality. Doesn't matter much but to be accurate mine is model STP 69 and not just 69. So was the other one sold on eBay just a few weeks ago. Just recalled, a bloke in a US forum thread mentioned that he had a Peak t/t, so that's four. This member had listed his gear and he had some very high quality components to go with it. Not sure what that tells you?

Have been a long time building the plinth for the Dual 1229 but hope to finish it soon. Don't get to work on it very often as I am disabled by chronic pain from injuries received in a motor vehicle accident 41 years ago. Unfortunately even large doses of morphine wont control it most days. However I just started on additional medication that I think might be going to help, so might get it finished sooner rather than later. Also have all the parts in VGC for a pair of marantz hd550 speakers that I want to build boxes for. Then I would like to build a new plinth the dual 1019 and maybe for the peak. Fingers crossed. BTW put a plug on the Dual 1019 power lead and everything works, needs a few adjustments and a new stylus. Has a Sure M75ED type 2 cart which according to a number of threads is not a half bad cart.

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The "Peak" brand name was for equipment imported by H.Rowe & Co. in Melbourne and also appeared elsewhere as, "Nikko".I believe the manufacturer in Japan was Onkyo Denki.

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thank u

i admire a brain that retains these otherwise totally useless bits of information........ cos my brain does it too

ok now for the million $$s what is the name of the small melbourne company i think from brunswick which produced 'Leak stereo 20' clones in the 1960's mine is in a bright blue hammer tone finish

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pepper

just reread my post i was a bit over the top with 'high quality' i meant in a relative sense to some of the other old 60s amps out there, and relative to the $25 it cost me NOT relative to my weston valve time machine.

though earl at weston is a peak fan they produced valve equipment/amps prior to this in early 60s and earle has 1 of their amps

PM soon re disability

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