Compact musical sub for under $1000?

[doakwolf]

Hi all,

 

Yep, another 'vs' thread  - my excuse is I live in Tassie - minimal dealers with minimal stock to demo.

The question is "B&W ASW608 vs Cambridge Minx X301 vs REL T/5i for living room music?"

 

I'm looking for a compact sub and opted for this price range simply because I know it's probably about the lowest I can go before compromising a bit too much on quality.

 

It will be for music only and paired with some 5-6" 2-way active bookshelves (TBC - probably Swan M300) because I've sold all of the HiFi gear and decided to run with just the PC and a DAC for simplicity.

 

On paper, the B&W looks most appealing and is also 25% cheaper. 200w power output is right between the REL (125) and the Minx (300) and it apparently pushes a bit lower at 23Hz (vs around 31Hz for the other two at -6dB). I figure low 30s is enough for music, though, so perhaps not a deciding point?

 

200w is enough for my place so I don't really consider the extra power of the Minx to be a factor in my decision. The Minx is a thing of beauty, however!

 

Until today, I wasn't considering the REL but after some reading here it seems they're a very popular choice for music lovers.

 

Is anybody feeling insightful?

[Bunno77]

Rel

The cambridge is rubbish. 

Haven't heard B&W subs

[sfdoddsy]

I just picked up a pair of Lyngdorf BW-2 subs for just slightly over your budget.

 

They are very small but give full 20Hz extension in my room.

 

They also have a nifty bypass mode that lets them play up to 800Hz, which can be handy.

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, doakwolf said:

Is anybody feeling insightful?

Go for any of them, but as mentioned probably the Cambridge last.

 

What will make the biggest difference is:

• What EQ applied  (having PC as only source is handy for this)
• Where placed in room
• How crossed over to main speakers  (does subwoofer has a "highpass filter output"... if not, what will you do)

[doakwolf]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input.

I appreciate the added suggestion of those Lyngdorfs too but reckon they're a bit too big what what I'm after. I'm hoping to hide it under the coffee table so to speak.

 

Dave, I may need an education - is it not enough to just low pass the sub where it sounds right and be done with it? Keep in mind, I'm not aiming for an audiophile setup.

[sfdoddsy]

The Lyngdorf is pretty small at 45 x 30 x 17. 

 

There was also a guy selling a couple of Magellan subs in the classifieds recently.

 

They are designed to fit under things.

[doakwolf]

Yeah wow those are actually quite slim, aren't they. OK I'll research them some more! That said, my budget was originally $500 and after some research I soon realised I was stuck with something like a Audioengine s8 which I'm pretty sure is more aimed at gamers? Hence my budget doubled and I don't know if I can stretch it much further.

I think I may have seen those TBIs not long ago but for some reason thought they were passive subs (I'm really wanting to go all active) but I can't find the ad in the search now anyway.

 

I'll demo the REL tomorrow. Lots of reading about them today has me convinced they're a top choice for musical bass. Shame I won't be able to compare it to any of the other options.

Thanks again!

[Raider61]

If you don't want to go too load, the bass extension EQ on the B&W would be useful.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

 

[SilverWolf]

I'm using a Voll S8 (well just got it today to play with) which is a little 8 inch 100w RMS basic sub, comes with a port plug and is covered with a local warranty. Designed to go with smaller bookshelf speakers/monitors/desk-top audio, to me looks extremely similar to the Emotiva S8 sub, it's only $200 on sale atm. My room isn't great and I expected it to not be that good but while I wouldn't go crazy about it, it's really not half bad for it's size/price for smaller systems.

 

More musical than I expected, but I do prefer it with the port plug in which may be killing off a little volume and extension. I find it to have a little more punch faster with the plug in. They have a 30 day money back guarantee their website suggests, could be worth a look maybe and you don't lose money.

[buddyev]

SVS sb 1000

[rantan]

NM, got price wrong.

Edited September 3, 2019 by rantan

[doakwolf]

1 hour ago, Mitcon said:

I'm using a Voll S8...

 

1 hour ago, buddyev said:

SVS sb 1000

 

Choices... I don't know if I like or dislike having them!

 

I've realised if I'm spending $1000 it's probably a smart thing to get the (seemingly very popular) SVS which will obviously far out-perform my OP mentioned subs at only a small size increase. However, I really doubt I'll ever really stretch the legs on the SVS so wonder if it'd just be a waste. It'd be seriously future-proofed in case I do decide to get another descent hifi setup one day. I've gotta just decide how set I am on having a minimalist, micro system and whether I can deal with going just that little bit bigger.

 

I've never seen those Volls before, but that's the other thought I had recently - to scrap the idea (for now) and see how happy I can be with a super cheap option such as that. I don't need a heap of output because I don't like annoying my neighbours 

[buddyev]

If you’re not in a rush why not wait for second hand? I got 2 svs sb1000 used - for around $5-600 each. 

 

[SilverWolf]

SVS SB 1000 is a very nice sub if you can afford it and have the space,  I wouldn't compare the Voll S8 to it as your talking a $200 8 inch unit Vs a $1k+ 12 inch.  The SVS would blow the little Voll away with ease I would imagine, but it really depends on your needs/wants/budget. I got the idea your using small monitors/bookshelf type speakers in a small-ish room as you seemed to want something compact, hence why I suggested the little Voll. Cheap, cheerful and might be enough for a small set-up and the option to return for a refund if unhappy.

 

There's also the KRK 10s MK2 (think they also do a 8 inch version) subwoofer could be another option, on sale quite a few places atm (seen it for $400) and it's a favourite in some recording/mixing studio's. 

 

Room acoustics and location/positioning of the sub will make the largest difference. Often a bad sounding sub is just in the wrong location in a room, but a great many of us just plonk a sub down where it looks best or is hidden away etc. You can do a bit with EQing and treat problem areas of your room or use a DSP set-up, a sub crawl is alway a good idea if you can place it where it pretty much anywhere to find the best position for the sub. It can also help to not have your sub on the floor, experimentation will give give you the best results.

 

I only have the Voll S8 because the wife/family got it for me for Fathers day for a bit of fun to use in my small (2.4m x 3.4m) PC studio room with active monitors/bookshelf speakers and there's nowhere in the room to pick the best spot for it, so it's plonked under/behind my bench as there's no room for bigger or a different spot. I wouldn't spend more on a sub than the loud speakers cost me (if I had more cash I'd sooner spend it on even better speakers/other gear). And if I spent more on a sub for better quality I'd only do so if I could put it in the best position for it or I'd be wasting that extra money.

 

But I have little need for a sub in my small studio in reality, it's just there to help with a little boost in the low end when I choose to use it. If I want to really go low and loud I have a massive custom dual driver unit that weighs more than my wife on my main system 

[doakwolf]

19 minutes ago, Mitcon said:

I wouldn't spend more on a sub than the loud speakers cost me (if I had more cash I'd sooner spend it on even better speakers/other gear).

Thanks for highlighting yet another option which has already floated through my mind this week haha. I've thought about scrapping my active mains idea and to instead invest in a power amp (I have a nice little preamp already) combined with some better passive bookshelves that perhaps won't 'need' a subwoofer 

 

This is why I created this thread - I'm open to all ideas and feedback. Perhaps buying some $850 active 2-ways and pairing them with a $1000 sub is a stupid idea and I need to be talked out of it! The back story of all this is over the last year I've decided to shed possessions and downsize stuff. I thought I was happy with no stereo in the living room and so bought the M200s (as discussed with you on Whirlpool) for the study but have now realised I miss my HiFi in the living room. I was hoping to keep any new gear super simple and compact for reasons that may not make sense (divorce changes a man ).

Sound advice in your whole reply, thanks Wayne.

 

Oh P.S. Those KRK subs are one of the first options I considered but it seems too good to be true - especially at the current sale prices on storeDJ. Again, I can't demo one. My mate has some KRK monitors and loves them.

[Ittaku]

Well how much are you interested in spending?

[robmid]

You could get a pair of REL T-Zeros for about $1200.

They are designed for music and run from speaker outputs which helps them to sound like sound like part of the system instead of a bolt on sub.

Once they are positioned for correct room loading they punch out some powerful musical bass that lifts the performance of the entire system.

They aren't doof doofs.

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, doakwolf said:

This is why I created this thread - I'm open to all ideas and feedback. Perhaps buying some $850 active 2-ways and pairing them with a $1000 sub is a stupid idea and I need to be talked out of it!

What you've quoted here seems to be about the minimum you could get away with spending on each and not get complete junk.   

[Willmax]

I'm also keen to hear more opinions on this subject. 

From what I've read on the net it seems like two subs work better than one, with that in mind what would be a good rule of thumb in terms of size and power rating? I'd imagine 10in would be a minimal size for the woofer and what about min. power rating? 

Would a sealed enclosure be better than ported? 

[betty boop]

59 minutes ago, Willmax said:

I'm also keen to hear more opinions on this subject. 

From what I've read on the net it seems like two subs work better than one, with that in mind what would be a good rule of thumb in terms of size and power rating? I'd imagine 10in would be a minimal size for the woofer and what about min. power rating? 

Would a sealed enclosure be better than ported? 

id personally put the $1000 to one decent one rather than two average $500 ones...

 

its far easier to place and integrate 1 sub over two. likely be able to place one ideally rather than two. for most folk placing one is difficult enough. 2 can also be double trouble ! 

 

re minimal size... depends on room and kind of sub. I've come across a VERY decent sealed 10" that would be excellent in smaller rooms but would be a bit lost in most larger ones. its likely to be far more capable with bass and sub bass than most speakers would be though.

 

re sealed vs ported. ported tend to be larger beasts. sealed smaller but with more powerful amps. either can do depending on what can accomodate. smaller sealed subs just seem to be more amenable and easier to integrate into most systems and homely settings.

[zippi]

 

3 minutes ago, Willmax said:

I'm also keen to hear more opinions on this subject. 

From what I've read on the net it seems like two subs work better than one, with that in mind what would be a good rule of thumb in terms of size and power rating? I'd imagine 10in would be a minimal size for the woofer and what about min. power rating? 

Would a sealed enclosure be better than ported? 

It'll be case by case, but I think there's a bit of a consensus sealed enclosure subs work better for music.

I have a single sub and it is well below your price range - active, sealed Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo compact sub.

 

10 inch driver, 150W into 8 ohms and I use high level inputs to connect to the stereo amp. Nothing fancy however if set up properly rounds out the lows seamlessly with either Krix Equinox Mk3 or AE Aegis Evo One bookshelf speakers. It just disappears and yet provides the low end extension.

 

Ported subs can add a bit too much "woooosh" to the bass while sealed enclosures have that well rounded, but not in your face delivery. But again - subs ain't subs. I seem to recall very favourable opinions on musicality of Dynaudio subs and they tend to come up for sale in pairs. Depending on the model a 2nd hand set of 2 subs should come in at or about your budget.

[Willmax]

4 hours ago, betty boop said:

id personally put the $1000 to one decent one rather than two average $500 ones

Any particular brand/model I'd look out for? I've seen some Yamaha subs with controls at the front, which could be handy, they used to sell for around $1k new.

 

[betty boop]

14 minutes ago, Willmax said:

Any particular brand/model I'd look out for? I've seen some Yamaha subs with controls at the front, which could be handy, they used to sell for around $1k new.

 

its hard ot comment without knowing size of room, but id be looking at the RELs ... T5i at full retail maybe can swing a T7i on special or 2nd hand...cant see anything in the for sales.... might have to keep eyes peeled  

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

If REL is the choice contact the distributor Synergy Audio as they may have some refurbished or superseded models available. I purchased 2x T7’s this way and they haven’t skipped a beat.