Selecting a high quality 6 inch midrange unit for my full range Loudspeaker project

[Dark_Matter]

I am looking for a medium to high sensitivity midrange for a full range system.

 

Looking at drivers around 93 -96 dB/w

 

The crossover points for the midrange bandpass will be between 250Hz to about 2700Hz; third order electrical filters will be used.

 

Initially it will use passive filters and later it will be activated.

 

A reasonable degree of accuracy is required, but dynamic excitement to this project is key.

 

The project will be for high quality domestic audio, NOT PA!!

 

The units I am looking at as a starting point is the Faital Pro 6PR160 midrange and 6RS140 low midrange.

 

I have been investigating using full range units like the Seas FA22RCZ and the X1-08 Exotic F8 as well as they make great dynamic midrange units.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Dark_Matter

[VanArn]

Audax  manufacture some specialist midrange speakers  such as the PR170 MO. These use a coated paper cone together with a flat foam edge surround, aluminium wire voice coil  and importantly a high flux magnet.

[THOMO]

Building a high sensitivity three way must be a hard thing to get right because there are very few of them made for domestic use.Well worth a try though.PHL make some very good medium sensitivity drivers that would suit.Even some in 16 ohm.

It might also pay to consider using a larger mid/woofer down to say 100hz and then crossing to an active woofer below that Might be be easier to get right.

[Atlas Gouverneur]

I can vouch for the Audax PR170, One of the best mid ranges I have ever heard. You may get away with 3rd order at 250 hz, but your power handling won't be great. they want to be crossed higher when pushed hard.

[THOMO]

Third order crossovers sound like asking for phasing problems to me.First order would be a lot better choice.

[Atlas Gouverneur]

3 minutes ago, THOMO said:

Third order crossovers sound like asking for phasing problems to me.First order would be a lot better choice.

Why? the acoustic centre can be offset by the filter, which is a good thing when drivers have different acoustic centres.

[Full Range]

You will find it hard to find a better speaker that is so nice at midrange than a Lowther driver of your choice 

 

Most models are rated from 30Hz to 20kHz 

When using a crossover for just the midrange - you won’t regret the amazing midrange they will deliver 

 

Just do your homework and research well and take a holistic approach 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Full Range

[oohms]

The PRV 5MR450 would make an excellent dynamic midrange providing you can cross it at 300hz or so

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-waw-applications.html

[Wozza_Lee]

Pyle and faital pro are the best options I am aware of.

Maybe a mtm set up for more choices

[davewantsmoore]

11 hours ago, Dark_Matter said:

The crossover points for the midrange bandpass will be between 250Hz to about 2700Hz; third order electrical filters will be used.

Seems "silly" to have already decided on the filters before you know what the driver highpass and lowpass responses are going to be.

11 hours ago, Dark_Matter said:

The units I am looking at as a starting point is the Faital Pro 6PR160 midrange and 6RS140 low midrange.

 

I have been investigating using full range units like the Seas FA22RCZ and the X1-08 Exotic F8 

Any of these would be good choices....  depending on how loud you need to go.    What is the peak SPL requirement?

[davewantsmoore]

4 hours ago, Full Range said:

Lowther

Most are going to struggle with 250Hz at any significant SPL (ie. "dynamic" which implies some reasonable peak SPL)

[VanArn]

I do not see a problem with being able to produce adequate SPL,s with say, the Audax PR 170.     To achieve a* 120 dB level at 250 Hz would require a   cone movement of 0.147mm. This is well within the Xmax figure of 0.5mm shown on the manufacturer's data sheet.   Granted, real world signals can be more demanding than that of a pure sine wave as harmonics , in the speakers passband,  can add to the excursion requirements.

                                                                                                                                                                                                               *This  calculation assumes radiation into half-space of a circular disc  that is small compared with the wavelength of sound at this frequency.

[Lochawe]

14 hours ago, Dark_Matter said:

I am looking for a medium to high sensitivity midrange for a full range system.

 

Looking at drivers around 93 -96 dB/w

 

The crossover points for the midrange bandpass will be between 250Hz to about 2700Hz; third order electrical filters will be used.

 

Initially it will use passive filters and later it will be activated.

 

A reasonable degree of accuracy is required, but dynamic excitement to this project is key.

 

The project will be for high quality domestic audio, NOT PA!!

 

The units I am looking at as a starting point is the Faital Pro 6PR160 midrange and 6RS140 low midrange.

 

I have been investigating using full range units like the Seas FA22RCZ and the X1-08 Exotic F8 as well as they make great dynamic midrange units.

What is your budget?

Can it stretch to Voxativ?  If so, I highly recommend you consider their 5inch wide band drivers which are super efficient and scary dynamics that would be hard to beat PLUS they are very accurate.

https://voxativ.berlin/products/af1n

https://voxativ.berlin/products/af26

Good friend here in Perth has a quartet of these driven with 845 SET amps in a huge 4way active system and they sound superb.

Cheers,

Chris

[davewantsmoore]

3 hours ago, VanArn said:

I do not see a problem with being able to produce adequate SPL,s with say, the Audax PR 170.     To achieve a* 120 dB level at 250 Hz would require a   cone movement of 0.147mm. This is well within the Xmax figure of 0.5mm shown on the manufacturer's data sheet.

?

 

+/- more than 4mm, by a quick calc here  (and you exceed the power limit anyways)

 

[Dark_Matter]

2 hours ago, Aperalim said:

What is your budget?

Can it stretch to Voxativ?  If so, I highly recommend you consider their 5inch wide band drivers which are super efficient and scary dynamics that would be hard to beat PLUS they are very accurate.

https://voxativ.berlin/products/af1n

https://voxativ.berlin/products/af26

Good friend here in Perth has a quartet of these driven with 845 SET amps in a huge 4way active system and they sound superb.

Cheers,

Chris

Alas way outside of my pay grade but I have looked at some of their drivers in the past as they are superb.

[Dark_Matter]

This unit looks good, a rising response that is easily dealt with in crossover, but it tests well too, test measurements meets my needs for 94~95 db/w though the spec says 98

 

6MBX44

 

Test results for the above here

Edited August 25, 2019 by Dark_Matter

[Dark_Matter]

Between these two?

 

Though one has a half roll surround the other pleated, both in treated cotton.

 

Faital Pro 6PR150 vs 6PR160

[davewantsmoore]

I'd have to sim them, and look at some measured distortion data.... but at a quick glance one has double the xmax of the other.   That might be very relevant depending on how far you plan to push them.

 

The difference between 105dB 110dB and 120dB (as mentioned by VA) .... are not at all small differences.    It's like the difference between a Toyota Corolla, a Subaru Forester, and a Ford F150 ..... They're all cars, but .... pick a use-case and only ONE of them will likely be particularly appropriate for it.

[VanArn]

17 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

?

 

+/- more than 4mm, by a quick calc here  (and you exceed the power limit anyways)

 

davewantsmore is correct with his quick calculation. The simple formula  that I used for u (  peak amplitude )  = 1.93 x  sq root Pa /f^2 D^2 , when using a calculator requires the numerator to be calculated first before attempting the division.  I missed this step.  The answer is 4.416mm.

Edited August 26, 2019 by VanArn

[davewantsmoore]

46 minutes ago, VanArn said:

The answer is 4.416mm.

It is... but 120dB was a pretty extreme ask.

 

105dB in the listening position is "Dolby Reference" .... this would be considered ~ extreme by most.

[VanArn]

Using the same parameters and using a 0.5mm Xmax  as the limiting factor (Audax PM 170 MO ), a 107dB SPL level can be achieved. Since at 250 Hz , if this is to be crossover frequency, the level for both the bass unit and the mid-range with a third order Butterworth network would typically be  - 3dB for  each speaker and given a 'perfect' summation the level attainable would increase to 110 dB. That should be sufficient for any domestic sound system. The use of a flat foam surround is a better choice for a midrange driver rather than corrugated cloth or roll surrounds. The noise is less  and edge diffraction is minimised. Although their lifetime  can be  short they are easily replaced.

[davewantsmoore]

2 hours ago, VanArn said:

The use of a flat foam surround is a better choice for a midrange driver rather than corrugated cloth or roll surrounds

Maybe, but I think it's difficult to generalise that with modern materials.

[lusk]

Without knowing the bass driver your using and going passive first up

For a midrange out of what you have listed I'd go the 6RS140, fs 65Hz, 93dB

 

 

[A9X]

B&C 6MD38

Check Zaph's measurements.