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2 minutes ago, allthumbs said:

My point is that these discussions have effects in the real world. And I have witnessed a few doozies on this site that may have affected the commercial health of a number of companies and individuals.

Absolutely, but they pale in comparison to the effect of a good stereophile review.

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On a supposedly audio enthusiast forum, one would be luridly and spectacularly provocative, by even posing "the" question regarding cables. I could only interpret a question of that type as a deliberate and incendiary action designed for purely nefarious purposes.

It happens so often where this is asked and subsequently, the OP is never heard from again.

 

Make of that what you will, but I don't think it is intended to further advance or gain knowledge.

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2 minutes ago, rantan said:

On a supposedly audio enthusiast forum, one would be luridly and spectacularly provocative, by even posing "the" question regarding cables. I could only interpret a question of that type as a deliberate and incendiary action designed for purely nefarious purposes.

It happens so often where this is asked and subsequently, the OP is never heard from again.

 

Make of that what you will, but I don't think it is intended to further advance or gain knowledge.

Good point. No doubt I've been baited on more than one occasion unwittingly.

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Guest Muon N'
22 minutes ago, rantan said:

On a supposedly audio enthusiast forum, one would be luridly and spectacularly provocative, by even posing "the" question regarding cables. I could only interpret a question of that type as a deliberate and incendiary action designed for purely nefarious purposes.

It happens so often where this is asked and subsequently, the OP is never heard from again.

 

Make of that what you will, but I don't think it is intended to further advance or gain knowledge.

I'm not sure what "the" question you are referring to is?

 

If someone doesn't know the answer, they ask the question.

When the thread starter is not seen again it is impossible to know the reason why, any speculation to why is just that.

 

Meh, just how I view this *shrug*

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6 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

I'm not sure what "the" question you are referring to is?

 

If someone doesn't know the answer, they ask the question.

When the thread starter is not seen again it is impossible to know the reason why, any speculation to why is just that.

 

Meh, just how I view this *shrug*

The "cable question". Yes, that one.

 

Nobody asks the cable question and then vanishes from the face of the earth if they are genuine and wish to learn, so we can only assume the motive was to kick the hornets nest.

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17 minutes ago, rantan said:

The "cable question". Yes, that one.

 

Nobody asks the cable question and then vanishes from the face of the earth if they are genuine and wish to learn, so we can only assume the motive was to kick the hornets nest.

Ohhhh. That question.   I love cables by the way 

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Guest Karl Rand
1 hour ago, rantan said:

Yes indeed. I quoted @Karl Rand

Yes, sometimes the forum software grabs the wrong quote. I’ve learnt to double check I’m actually responding to what I think I’m responding to - - if that makes sense. 

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3 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

Ohhhh. That question.   I love cables by the way 

And may I say how excellent your cables are................. in public and without an audiologist report or even any measured graphs.

image.png.a943542c1e2d187d8ba4d5a67b5ceb5a.png

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2 minutes ago, rantan said:

And may I say how excellent your cables are................. in public and without an audiologist report or even any measured graphs.

image.png.a943542c1e2d187d8ba4d5a67b5ceb5a.png

Be careful.  😜

Edited by Bill125812

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11 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

I love cables by the way 

I love cables too. My system doesn't work very well without them.

Edited by Ittaku

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2 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

Be careful.  😜

Indeed.

 

I also know those with whom I need to exercise caution.B|

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1 hour ago, rantan said:

 I could only interpret a question of that type as a deliberate and incendiary action designed for purely nefarious purposes.

It happens so often where this is asked and subsequently, the OP is never heard from again.

Make of that what you will, but I don't think it is intended to further advance or gain knowledge.

Shills exist

34 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

I'm not sure what "the" question you are referring to is?

 

If someone doesn't know the answer, they ask the question.

When the thread starter is not seen again it is impossible to know the reason why, any speculation to why is just that.

 

Meh, just how I view this *shrug*

Agreed, You shouldn't see shills everywhere

------------

Not a comment for or against but just because it amused me .....

images2.jpg.7780dc45082b8ce602aaa21a8691332a.jpg

 

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Guest Karl Rand
1 hour ago, andythiing said:

Seriously people are overthinking this / just enjoy the forum and ignore those that you disagree with - if you don’t like the forum move on - moderators do a good job - no one needs to write a new rule book or re-educate the population - talk about audio and music more and worry less about others

 

And have a drink

 

https://youtu.be/xaEWrtLAUKM

 

Overthinking? I suggest not thinking carefully enough. Maybe the original posters intention was to lower the tempature of discussions on the forum and reduce flame wars -fair enough I say BUT there’s a bigger problem here. I’ll avoid the video side of things as for some reason they don’t appear to be subject to the same public perception of esoteric idiocy. Ok, I may be wandering off topic here so if anyone want’s to suggest another thread I’m happy to go along with it. 

There’s a very common public  perception  we’re all a bit mad. This has been going on since the 1950’s and continues to push the hi-fi industry into an exclusive little corner all by itself.  The economic implications are huge. Take for instance the absurd number of boutique audio manufacturers who charge silly money for their products because they cannot avail themselves of economies of scale. Imagine what a middle range car would cost if that industry was as irrationally sidelined. I’ll stop there as this really is wandering off topic.

Just let me explain why I’m prone to posting comics that send the hi-fidelity industry up. We don’t appear able to face the fact we’ve been the subject of jokes for many decades. The way we argue in places like this is only part of it yet it’s symtomatic of a deeper problem.

wirejoke.jpg

BetterRecords-0018.jpg

Stereo Review TBD4.jpg

Edited by Karl Rand

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10 minutes ago, Karl Rand said:

Ok, I may be wandering off topic here so if anyone want’s to suggest another thread I’m happy to go along with it. 

Yes please, thank you

Edited by Audiophile Neuroscience

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41 minutes ago, Karl Rand said:

Overthinking? I suggest not thinking carefully enough.

There’s a very common public  perception  we’re all a bit mad. This has been going on since the 1950’s and continues to push the hi-fi industry into an exclusive little corner all by itself.  The economic implications are huge. Take for instance the absurd number of boutique audio manufacturers who charge silly money for their products because they cannot avail themselves of economies of scale. Imagine what a middle range car would cost if that industry was as irrationally sidelined. I’ll stop there as this really is wandering off topic.

Just let me explain why I’m prone to posting comics that send the hi-fidelity industry up. We don’t appear able to face the fact we’ve been the subject of jokes for many decades. The way we argue in places like this is only part of it yet it’s symtomatic of a deeper problem.

 

Of course we are all slightly mad, but are we any more mad than a collector of vintage platform/console video games which can sell for thousands of dollars? Are we more delusional than someone who spends $50,000 on a model train set or $6000 on wheels for a car that is worth $3000 or someone who has a $20,000 set of Barbie Dolls? Pursuits such as these are a panacea for a life devoid of depth and suffocating blandness.

 

In regards to being the subject of jokes for decades, I have never, experienced this in the many decades I have been involved in audio, either selling or collecting or just listening. I once worked with a woman many years back who could not understand why, at the time, I had spent $3000 on an amplifier and yet just the day before she was happily announcing to whomever would listen, how chuffed she was at the new curtains in her lounge room at the bargain price of $3500.

 

Being a collector or an enthusiast necessitates some degree of dispensation of reality and pragmatism, otherwise nobody would ever own more than  one watch or listen to music via anything other than a midi system from Harvey Norman.

As for arguments between peers in a hobby, provided they are civil and productive, I personally don't see this as symptomatic of any deep problems. The more detailed knowledge one possesses in any field implies that deep understanding will natively lead to peer dispute and discussion and that is how causes and areas of knowledge are enhanced.

Edited by rantan

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25 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

Of course we are all slightly mad, but are we any more mad than a collector of vintage platform/console video games which can sell for thousands of dollars? Are we more delusional than someone who spends $50,000 on a model train set or $6000 on wheels for a car that is worth $3000 or someone who has a $20,000 set of Barbie Dolls? Pursuits such as these are a panacea for a life devoid of depth and suffocating blandness.

 

In regards to being the subject of jokes for decades, I have never, experienced this in the many decades I have been involved in audio, either selling or collecting or just listening. I once worked with a woman many years back who could not understand why, at the time, I had spent $3000 on an amplifier and yet just the day before she was happily announcing to whomever would listen, how chuffed she was at the new curtains in her lounge room at the bargain price of $3500.

 

Being a collector or an enthusiast necessitates some degree of dispensation of reality and pragmatism, otherwise nobody would ever own more than  one watch or listen to music via anything other than a midi system from Harvey Norman.

As for arguments between peers in a hobby, provided they are civil and productive, I personally don't see this as symptomatic of any deep problems. The more detailed knowledge one possesses in any field implies that deep understanding will natively lead to peer dispute and discussion and that is how causes and areas of knowledge are enhanced.

Well said. Yes we are a little crazy and maybe just a little flawed, "there's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in"

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8 hours ago, andythiing said:

It’s easy HTFU

 

4 hours ago, POV said:

How sensitive are folks though where that is required?  Is it not self evident that it is the posters opinion?

 

I tend to think that if anything needs to change it’s people being overly sensitive to alternate opinions and their ideas being challenged.  

 

Seems bizarre to me to join a discussion forum and then act somehow surprised to find folks that think differently than you!

I dont think the OP is talking about someone not saying IMHO its more like the type of stuff below. (Apologies to those who have seen me post this previously but that thread got shut down)

 

 

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Overthinking? I suggest not thinking carefully enough. Maybe the original posters intention was to lower the tempature of discussions on the forum and reduce flame wars -fair enough I say BUT there’s a bigger problem here. I’ll avoid the video side of things as for some reason they don’t appear to be subject to the same public perception of esoteric idiocy. Ok, I may be wandering off topic here so if anyone want’s to suggest another thread I’m happy to go along with it. 
There’s a very common public  perception  we’re all a bit mad. This has been going on since the 1950’s and continues to push the hi-fi industry into an exclusive little corner all by itself.  The economic implications are huge. Take for instance the absurd number of boutique audio manufacturers who charge silly money for their products because they cannot avail themselves of economies of scale. Imagine what a middle range car would cost if that industry was as irrationally sidelined. I’ll stop there as this really is wandering off topic.
Just let me explain why I’m prone to posting comics that send the hi-fidelity industry up. We don’t appear able to face the fact we’ve been the subject of jokes for many decades. The way we argue in places like this is only part of it yet it’s symtomatic of a deeper problem.
wirejoke.jpg.4b222893f30a5011ba7ab0825195dcf0.jpg
BetterRecords-0018.thumb.jpg.2baea2c0fcdf2ab3075e00ee7e6ba498.jpg
1807322420_StereoReviewTBD4.jpg.f335f5577523033a9dc5d7e52541203e.jpg
Ha ha. Brilliant.
Me doth think we taketh ourselves to serious sometimes (read, all the time).

Me, I know I'm mad. What other species would spend on HiFi, costing the price of a new medium car.

But God, l love this hobby, even with all its different variables and nuances. This forum has been brilliant for me, in terms of reference and the friendships gained from like minded souls.

P.S. l love cables too.[emoji8]

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5 hours ago, Ittaku said:

I said no one really does that, though.

@Ittaku

 

Really.  Just do a search on the word delusional.  It is word that has been used frequently in posts as a put down in respect of various posters including me.

John

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5 hours ago, Ittaku said:

But we still need a way to discuss these things meaningfully without resorting to personal attacks.

@Ittaku

 

I agree.  However I am now reluctant to post about my opinions on various  things that I have experienced that could be of interest to other SNA members.  At a recent GTG a member said to me "they give you are hard time".   At the show last year an exhibitor said virtually the same thing to me.  He also said that he was no longer interested in comment on the forum.  Whilst he was a poster I considered his contributions useful.

 

I consider that we are individually ultimately responsible for our own decisions.  I make mistakes.  Not many fortunately   Some posters seem to me that from time to time that they think that know better and can save me or others from making mistakes.   One poster in another thread said exactly that recently.  I do not need to be saved from the folly of my own decisions.

 

I would like to be able to discuss    "....things meaningfully..."   Sometimes that has not been my experience in recent times. 

 

John

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Guest Muon N'

@Assisi I also know and have known members that stop sharing their experiences after similar treatment, many end up leaving the forums, or share on other forums instead.

 

I think we also need to remember that as a portion of society being forum members, we will have some folk that have the same issues as found in percentages of the greater population. Like people with power and/or control issues (they usually go together). People with these issues will try and control their environment and the people around them. So some conflict can likely be the result of particular personalities exercising their issues and attempting to control others.

Edited by Muon N'

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9 hours ago, Karl Rand said:

The dangerous supposition underlying these problems is the theory science can measure everything in a way that relates meaningfully with human perceptions. 

Why do you think this is a dangerous supposition though?  This seems to me to be at the very heart of the issue, that some audiophiles find the concept that what they can actually hear is measurable terrifying.  I do not understand why...

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11 hours ago, cazzesman said:

 I'm hearing you POV.      My peeve in forums is where people post in such a way that their Opinion must be excepted as 'Fact'.   

 

There is a huge difference between..........I'm providing my opinion based on X,Y, Z nothing more nothing less. - vs - I'm giving my opinion and because I've said it it must a be an irrefutable true fact because I know best.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

 

Oh sure, I 100% agree with this. Anyone attempting to converse from a position of ‘let me show you how right I am’ knows nothing about effective communication.

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Well, well, it is indeed fascinating to see how this thread has developed. Someone's laughing all the way to the bank.

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12 minutes ago, Kosmic said:

Well, well, it is indeed fascinating to see how this thread has developed. Someone's laughing all the way to the bank.

 

I’ll be ‘that guy’ who admits to having no idea what you are suggesting?

 

So, what do you mean?

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